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Old 18th July 2014, 08:39   #691
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

Yesterday evening i was taking a stroll in HSR 27th main and i could see a significant number of cars with other State registration plates.

So the 'awareness' about the drive is indeed restricted to KA51 area only, i guess.
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Old 18th July 2014, 10:17   #692
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

Electronics City yesterday had a major drive against out of state cars. Phase 2 near the BETL toll exit had the RTO jeep parked with a bunch of out of state cars parked nearby talking to the RTO cops.
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Old 18th July 2014, 10:52   #693
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

Quote:
Originally Posted by poloman View Post
There is no significant migration of populace from KA to KL where as around 25% of people in Bangalore are from Kerala.
Wow, where did you get this statistics? Considering Kannada, Telugu, Tamil & Hindi speakers outnumber Mallus in Bangalore, how do you support this 25% figure?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lurker View Post
Indian middle class it seems has become 'over-compliant' and are now gamed by every tom, dick, & harry which includes the KA govt.
Why are we talking about middle class in this thread? Middle class people mainly take public transport and at the most ride a low-end two wheeler. According to World Bank 2009 data, India has 18 cars per 1000 people. Car owners are clearly not middle class people.
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Old 18th July 2014, 10:54   #694
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chalu View Post
Genuine motorists coming into Bangalore are getting affected due to majority of our folks don't want to pay the road tax. When people move to Bangalore for greener pastures consider extra costs like movement of household goods, Children school admission etc but they don't want to take into consideration the cost of paying road tax.
We already have to deal with a considerable amount of expense when we relocate, why make it worse by throwing in road tax too. What I hate the most is out of state cars with Army stickers and a similar "I work for the government" plate fixed on their vehicles. Lets ask them to pay taxes every time they move. I'd like to see how this goes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chalu View Post
I have noticed many cars registered outside Karnataka in my parking lot where people are working here for more than 3 years but they don't want to pay the road tax.
Why should they. This is completely retarded. I don't get this at all and why you even support this. We are one country. Why on earth do you have to pay road tax for every state you move to. As if it isn't enough with what we all have to pay from our salaries.

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Originally Posted by Chalu View Post
Also when people negotiate during their salary they need to consider these costs and talk to the company for reimbursement of road tax
Yeah; good luck with asking your employer to reimburse your road tax.
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Old 18th July 2014, 10:57   #695
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

I stay in Mumbai but visit Bangalore often for work (once every 1-2 months) and we drive down sometimes. My office is on ORR. Each visit lasts a week. When in that city, I stay at a hotel. I want to make sure I carry required proof to show the cops that I am not a resident of the state and hence not required to pay LTT, if I get pulled over. So I called up Transport Commissioner's PR office on the phone number mentioned on Bangalore RTO's website to get guidelines on this. The officer was very polite to speak to. However, unfortunately she wasnt able to tell me what documentation would be enough to prove to the cops that I dont need to pay LTT. She told me that nothing can guarantee that cops wont ask me to pay LTT after pulling me over. And I should e-mail transport commissioner for more specifics, which I did but I havent got any response. If and when I get a response, I will post it here.

I have a question for people here. Are following documents enough to prove my out-of-state status:
1) Toll receipts from Mumbai-Bangalore which are < 1 week old
2) Fuel bills from Mumbai taken just before commencing journey
3) Hotel reservation/key in Bangalore
4) Car insurance on Mumbai address
5) DL on Mumbai address
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Old 18th July 2014, 10:58   #696
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

Quote:
Originally Posted by humyum View Post
Opps, Sorry, blacksport and me were kind of were having this argument since long, so I thought he meant me. I apologize blacksport.
That's okay. Perhaps I should have been more specific, and there wouldn't have been any confusion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by benbsb29 View Post
What i had provided was my own example in point. The essence of what i was trying to say was that this interstate harassment nonsense cannot carry on. We have examples already of state RTOs in Pune, Hyderabad etc getting into similar drives. Guess where they were inspired from?
Actually, we all have our own examples, both of people getting harassed, and people evading tax. Examples can only throw light into that specific case, and not the whole situation. Also, ones views might be colored by the immediate example available to him.

There has to be a long term solution. I agree that lifetime tax is unfair for short term travelers. As somebody said some posts before, the central government should pitch in and bring in a mechanism to have a permit system for vehicles moving across states.

As such the life-time tax is an unfair taxing mechanism, not just for out-station vehicles, but to local vehicles too. I think Karnataka started the trend and then every other state eventually adopted it. In their defense, lifetime tax is easier to collect and reduces corruption.

Having said that, however dumb the law is, as long as it is in force, people have to abide by it.
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Old 18th July 2014, 11:04   #697
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Why are we talking about middle class in this thread? Middle class people mainly take public transport and at the most ride a low-end two wheeler. According to World Bank 2009 data, India has 18 cars per 1000 people. Car owners are clearly not middle class people.
What kind of logic is this ? People who drive Wagon R, Swift, Dzire, are surely middle class and not elite who drive Audi, BMW, Merc, Superb owners. The bulk of the cars caught are surely middle class owners who cannot afford the cost of buying a new car in KA or cannot afford the cost of buying a second hand KA registered vehicle.

KA has long been in this game of squeezing bangalore to feed its other districts of Hassan, Bidar, Gulbarga, Tumkur, Bellary, Chikmagulur. And they will not even bother to maintain this egg laying hen called bangalore whether they get tax money or not. This is just about making a fast buck without collateral damage.
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Old 18th July 2014, 11:11   #698
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

Quote:
Originally Posted by lurker View Post
What kind of logic is this ? People who drive Wagon R, Swift, Dzire, are surely middle class.
Ask this question to people who can't afford to buy any car. You have seen them, they are all around you. They take the bus/train to work, or drive a two-wheeler. They are the overwhelming majority of this country. My parents and my older brother have never owned a car, and take public transport buses to everywhere. They feel amused when car owners claim to be middle class.
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Old 18th July 2014, 11:16   #699
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

Why are we fighting over this and taking sides? Shouldn't we all be on the same side on this?

I don't understand this logic of 'the law has to be adhered to at any cost'. By that logic, we should all still be under the british raj and implement 'sati' on a daily basis. Stupid rules are meant to be broken. And, you think all your tax money is going towards building the nation, and by not paying this road tax twice, you are being a bad citizen?

So, IF it is a victimless offense and the rule is stupid and predatory, I don't understand why so many people stand up against their own interest and common sense. To add insult to injury, this very rule somehow doesn't apply to the uber rich and powerful.

In conclusion, a stupid rule that is selectively applied only to vulnerable populations is discriminatory and cannot be a law.

Last edited by ashwin489 : 18th July 2014 at 11:19.
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Old 18th July 2014, 11:22   #700
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

Quote:
Originally Posted by pratika View Post
Are following documents enough to prove my out-of-state status:
1) Toll receipts from Mumbai-Bangalore which are < 1 week old
2) Fuel bills from Mumbai taken just before commencing journey
This should cover it. The hotel reservation documents will be an added bonus.

You are safe.
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Old 18th July 2014, 11:23   #701
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Ask this question to people who can't afford to buy any car. You have seen them, they are all around you. They take the bus/train to work, or drive a two-wheeler. They are the overwhelming majority of this country. My parents and my older brother have never owned a car, and take public transport buses to everywhere. They feel amused when car owners claim to be middle class.
But sire their children own cars, and those cars are mainly hatchbacks or hatchbacks with a boot. In the 80s how many Indians owned a car ? And look how many middle-class have become car owners today. Most scooter, two wheeler owners today prefer to travel by Estilo, Alto, Swift, Dzire etc hatchbacks to keep their families safe while travelling. If they can afford it, they will scrape enough to buy a car sire.

Let me tell you a barber near my place just recently bought a swift. And a very ordinary barber at that, nothing deluxe or even AC about his setup.
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Old 18th July 2014, 11:24   #702
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmat
I have no sympathy for the PY/MP tax evaders nor the long term evaders. My neighbour is one of them, he goes bananas when people badly park or go down the one way in the wrong direction but he refuses to pay the tax.
Exactly. The general trend is that every one expect others to follow all rules while none is applicable to themselves. From what I see, RTO is clearly focusing on people who they know would be long time stayers in Bangalore. Off-course like in any other drives as such, a few genuine short term visitors may get into trouble. But that does not cancel out the state's right to collect her tax dues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by humyum
Now if they harass you even while you are within their 1 month frame work of laws, that does justify a brutal response !
All the best!! Hope brutality does NOT lead to further trouble as threatening or attacking government officials discharging their duty is generally not taken lightly. Exceptions would be for people who have higher levels of influence. This is a government driven excercise, so in most cases government would backup their RTO officers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by binand
Dodging tax - OK. In which part of India is dodging RTO checks illegal?
Running away from them is permitted. Just like how thieves have the right to run away from police check points. But it becomes a problem when you willfully disobey their instructions to stop and speed away. This is a violation as per MV Act.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronH4WK
All that the RTO folks need to do is to park and wait near the major IT parks to milk these IT junta with out of state registered vehicles.....
This rule, like the sun film ban, is a trump card for the RTO/Police.
That is because the RTO folks knows the job sector in which they can find the maximum road tax-violators. And that unfortunately is the IT sector. And every one is not an angel as it is made upto be. Just check in your own friend's circle you can find examples of the same. People who are working in IT driving around non-KA vehicles. Off course they would have their reasons, but that is not an excuse in the eyes of the law. The ban on sun-films was based on a Supreme Court (the highest court in India). Many people filed review petitions, it was rejected. The Police and RTO would have to face contempt of court charges if they are not seen enforcing this order.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIBIN004
f you with your car was in such a situation in an another state what would your reaction be to this situation assuming that you just visited for a day or maybe 3 months (say on deputation or so) and the RTO stops and seizes your car despite showing all the proofs.
KA problem is that they have reduced the tenure to one month. My previous vehicle's RC book (from KA) says the earlier limit was 1 year. So one month time period is too less and I will agree with you. But remember one thing such cases are very less in number when compared to the people who use non-KA vehicles in KA for more than one year. The people who sit and complain, all of them are not innocent people who just landed up in Bangalore one or two months back. Last year, a close relative of mine dumped his KL registered car back in KL. He was using it for 5 odd years in KA. Once the drive became very strong he had no go other than to take the vehicle back to KL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by benbsb29
Those supporting this initiative would say that i can prove that i dont stay in these places. Well, not really as my passport earlier showed a permanent address which was not a Bangalore address!
Passport cannot be taken as a valid proof in these cases. I can be the best example. My passport still shows my address in my native place (non KA). Where as I stay in Bangalore for the past 16 years. RTOs are not dumbos to believe the passport. They are really focusing on other documentary evidences to show that you are odd one time visitor to Bangalore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by poloman
There is no significant migration of populace from KA to KL where as around 25% of people in Bangalore are from Kerala.
Infact there is no migration from any other state to KL, especially people who can afford cars . We may have immigration from West Bengal etc. But any other person with a non-KL registration driving down to Kerala most likely would be an NRK or a tourist. Stopping such vehicles and getting them to pay taxes is only going to backfire. Tourists etc. would just goto other place. I own KA registered four wheelers for last 9 years. Only once I have been caught by KL RTO for checking on the road tax. And with toll receipts he let me off. But Kerala generally goes very strong on other Motor Vehicle Act sections (over-speeding, not wearing seat belts, helmets and drunken driving). And non-state vehicles to get some extra attention.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeepmohan
We already have to deal with a considerable amount of expense when we relocate, why make it worse by throwing in road tax too. What I hate the most is out of state cars with Army stickers and a similar "I work for the government" plate fixed on their vehicles.
Again this is just a false sense of victimhood. Road Tax is not a charity scheme where some one can pay and others can just ignore. KA (or any other state) has every right to collect her tax dues. So budget the road tax amount as well when thinking of relocating. Or look for other options. Army and Central Govt. employees have legal approvals for paying taxes only at one place. There is a reason. As Central Govt. employees they can get transferred any where in India. And most likely they would get transferred (especially Army folks). Where as IT folks etc. all jump states mainly out of personal convenience (and more money). The tax-exemption for defence and central govt. employees is an extra perk given by the Central Govt. for being ready to get moving all across the country. Let IT companies who want people to go on deputation all across the country try for such benefits.

Quote:
I don't get this at all and why you even support this. We are one country. Why on earth do you have to pay road tax for every state you move to. As if it isn't enough with what we all have to pay from our salaries.
Please read up on the authority a state has to collect her tax dues, including Road taxes. All this talk about "We are one country" would not help you convincing an RTO or any jurisdictional court.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lurker
KA has long been in this game of squeezing bangalore to feed its other districts of Hassan, Bidar, Gulbarga, Tumkur, Bellary, Chikmagulur.
What is the harm in doing that? The state allowed lots of companies to open shop in their land. Especially IT companies. Where other states like Kerala was working over time to kick out any possible big industry, Karnataka welcomed them with open arms. Will any one do all this for free/charity? They knew such industries would bring in more people, and bring in more development. And that means more money as taxes. And the that tax can be used for benefitting the state. Why should they just allow every one into Bangalore without expecting any thing in return? I am not a Kannadiga myself, but I would like to ask this simple question. If folks out here are so bothered about Karnataka Govt. and RTO fleecing you on various pretexts why don't you look for better options in your own state? Let IT (or any other industry) get established all across MP, UP, Bihar, Rajasthan, Jharkhand, Orissa etc; then people can go back to their own states where they can enjoy life. But the sad part is that none of these states have done any thing of that sort. So today Bangalore has become the cash-cow for quite a large number of people. And Karnataka state is just ensuring that these people who get maximum from Bangalore, gives some thing in return as well. So people who crib that Karnataka is harassing them, work on improving your own state and force the state governments there a chance for you to get back and enjoy life.

Came back to say...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashwin489
I don't understand this logic of 'the law has to be adhered to at any cost'. By that logic, we should all still be under the british raj and implement 'sati' on a daily basis. Stupid rules are meant to be broken.
Get your history right. It was during British Raj that the practise of 'Sati' was ABOLISHED. It was the British laws which said that Sati was murder, and any body who plans to have a 'Sati' organised would be hanged for murder. I don't know how Karnataka's right to get road taxes from people using it becomes a stupid rule. You can try breaking this stupid rule, but from what I read here you would not be able to do that for long. With your priced car getting impounded and put up in some RTO office ground, would help you take the good decisions .

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Old 18th July 2014, 11:40   #703
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

Quote:
Originally Posted by suresh_gs View Post
I am yet to see the RTO authorities catch the owner of an Audi or BMW with PY registration.
Here you go - a picture of PY Audi from the other closed thread on same topic.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post3373950 (Karnataka Road Tax, Crack down announced.EDIT: High Court Judgement on Pg 36 attached)
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Old 18th July 2014, 11:55   #704
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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Originally Posted by ashwin489 View Post
Stupid rules are meant to be broken.
That is not a proper thing to say, Stupid rules should be corrected!

If I am not mistaken, using the roads in India is a privilege, not a right. With the privilege comes the responsibility. If you do not wish to bear the responsibility, refrain from enjoying the privilege. It is quite simple.

I too endured it when I first came to Bangalore 15 years ago with my KL registered bike (KL-XX G YYYY - the 'G' annoyed the cops a lot, here it was exclusive for Government vehicles). Paid the road tax, retained the KL registration with the 'G' just for my satisfaction. I didn't like paying twice the tax, but I wanted to be in Bangalore, I obeyed Bangalore's laws. My choice.
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Old 18th July 2014, 11:57   #705
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

Quote:
Originally Posted by lurker View Post
But sire their children own cars, and those cars are mainly hatchbacks or hatchbacks with a boot.
So what? My parents live on 15K pension and refuse to take any money from us kids or move in with us. They travel everywhere independently via bus. BTW, my dad and mom are 81 & 77 respectively.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lurker View Post
In the 80s how many Indians owned a car ? And look how many middle-class have become car owners today. Most scooter, two wheeler owners today prefer to travel by Estilo, Alto, Swift, Dzire etc hatchbacks to keep their families safe while travelling. If they can afford it, they will scrape enough to buy a car sire.
I too grew up in middle class, we had Lambretta scooter for 25 years. However, once I bought a car, I lost the right to be called middle class.

And here we are, 1.8% of the population, we hog 75% of any road in the city traffic and feel harassed when RTO catches us for not paying road tax.
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