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Old 18th July 2014, 13:05   #721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sun_king View Post
That is not a proper thing to say, Stupid rules should be corrected!
I know it doesn't sound politically correct. But, stupid rules need to be broken first, for them to be corrected later.

So, if no one breaks stupid rules, they will never be corrected. Again, I am repeating this, whatever I am saying applies ONLY to victimless offences.

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Originally Posted by asdon View Post
I oppose those who are staying in Bangalore for more than a year, have properties, their children goes to highend international schools, they spent Diwali in North India, December in Goa but are not able to pay the road tax. And then they talk about the hassle of moving states. Sir thats the choice you are making to get a better job, higher salary etc, so the hassle will come free with it.

For those who want to keep their home state registration intact, why do you change your communication address to Bangalore address, keep it as your native address, don't take a local sim card, be on roaming and use your native phone number, don't get a bank account here. Sounds bad right? So why can't you pay the road tax and claim a refund from your home state?
I appreciate the fact that you have practiced what you preach.

But, you don't have to pay your kids' tuition fees in your home state simultaneously while paying fees here in Bangalore as well, right? And, you don't pay rent for your old house in your home state, while paying rent in Bangalore also? Makes sense?

No one is talking/advocating about evading taxes. What bothers most people is the duplication of taxes. I am all for yearly road taxes for temporary residents. In your experience, have you always been able to successfully get a refund of road taxes in all RTOs?

Last edited by Aditya : 19th July 2014 at 15:03. Reason: Merging back to back posts
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Old 18th July 2014, 14:03   #722
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

Quote:
Originally Posted by asdon View Post

I oppose those who are staying in Bangalore for more than a year, have properties, their children goes to highend international schools, they spent Diwali in North India, December in Goa but are not able to pay the road tax. And then they talk about the hassle of moving states. Sir thats the choice you are making to get a better job, higher salary etc, so the hassle will come free with it.

For those who want to keep their home state registration intact, why do you change your communication address to Bangalore address, keep it as your native address, don't take a local sim card, be on roaming and use your native phone number, don't get a bank account here. Sounds bad right? So why can't you pay the road tax and claim a refund from your home state?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashwin489 View Post
I appreciate the fact that you have practiced what you preach.

But, you don't have to pay your kids' tuition fees in your home state simultaneously while paying fees here in Bangalore as well, right? And, you don't pay rent for your old house in your home state, while paying rent in Bangalore also? Makes sense?

No one is talking/advocating about evading taxes. What bothers most people is the duplication of taxes. I am all for yearly road taxes for temporary residents. In your experience, have you always been able to successfully get a refund of road taxes in all RTOs?
I agree with Ashwin on this point, I would also like to emphasize that the road tax is meant to improve our infrastructure.

It hasn't really has it? forget that Bangalore has atrociously pock marked roads that would require a humvee to negotiate it properly. The roads to Mysore and Mangalore are usually in terrible condition or are dual carriage ways which go through every small village and town in the state. Mysore and Mangalore are both integral to the State's economy.

Decent road infrastructure to BIAL does not exist, and no, a Rs 110 toll road which does nothing to alleviate the bulk of most of our drives home does not count. Why charge such exorbitant road tax and then such ludicrous tolls?

NICE road and the Elevated tollway are both operated by different companies. A sensible thing would have been to connect both. That will never happen given common sense is for the inanely naive in this state. By the way, nice road is horribly constructed.

There does not exist a single Industrial corridor in this state with adequate infrastructure - Transportation or otherwise. Since this is an auto enthusiast forum, lets stick to the problems with transportation. No Industry can function in a condition where road designed for 2 ton loads have enormous 16 wheeler lorries tearing up the asphalt with 16-32 tons of payload. We do not have adequate access to ports and so shipments get routinely delayed. The situation is becoming so bad, that, existing medium and large scale industries are not expanding as much in Karnataka any more. They chose to set up shop in TN, NCR with some chosing to leave the country altogether. This is fine for them, the problem escalates when one considers small industries like single owner lathe shops or the neighborhood rice traders that service these small guys. Even when there is work for them, several are in interior locations where access is an issue. With the general outflow of industries, their work will dry up in the years to come. Obviously there are more complicated reasons for this than the road network, but its still part of the problem faced by this state.

The cops bust us all for ridiculous speed limits, and yet, they do nothing to enforce lane discipline. Look at the lorries that ply our roads. They occupy all available lanes, making it impossible for cars to commute in a quick and safe manner. They will happily stop lorries to make sure that their goods are all properly documented and yet over loading is not even frowned upon. Our buses ply with no regard to safety or road etiquette, what happens to the bus drivers when they kill someone?

We have virtually no road network to speak of. The taxes are sky high. Bangalore sees thousands of new vehicles on the road every day. Our planners have traveled to Tokyo, Shanghai, Taipei etc, but have we seen any difference in our lives?

WHERE ARE OUR ROAD TAXES GOING?

For almost two decades we have had the highest fuel surcharge for both Petrol and Diesel in the country. Forget about Petrol for the nonce, despite repeated pleas to several governments that the excess tax was keeping commercial customers away and hurting our economy nothing was done. Truckers basically fueled up in TN or MH, happily buggering KA in the process.

I'm sorry, but this state is in dire need of a makeover. Without one it will soon start lagging behind others even more than it already does.

I follow the rules and drive a KA registered car. I don't do it willingly and have no problems with people who try to avoid paying the nonsensical taxes we have here. Good luck to them. I can't and won't do it however.
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Old 18th July 2014, 14:27   #723
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

Quote:
Originally Posted by aswhin489
By that logic, we should all still be under the british raj and implement 'sati' on a daily basis. Stupid rules are meant to be broken.
Still be under British Raj and implement Sati on daily basis, implies that this was the British Raj which was encouraging to do this. Where as it was they who got rid of this murdering scheme.

Quote:
It is up to us to change these unreasonable laws by not conforming to them, IF it is a victimless offence
That is your wish. Please continue to say the same when the vehicle gets impounded and is taken to the nearest BMTC depot to join the 250+ odd cars there. All the best with your Gandhigiri.

Quote:
Since you seem to be a history buff, look up the name Mohandas Gandhi. He was one of those old timers that propagated the idea of not conforming to stupid laws imposed by bullies.
Please do the Gandhigiri and inform the RTO that you would not be paying the fine as you feel it is a stupid law. If that does not work the only way is to file a public interest litigation (PIL), spend your money on lawyers and time in courts and get this sorted out through a court order.

Quote:
I know it doesn't sound politically correct. But, stupid rules need to be broken first, for them to be corrected later.
Would you let us know when you have broken this rule (i.e you convince the RTO folks that you would not pay up road tax of Karnataka for the vehicle you have now), and RTO has agreed to waive you off? Do share us the good news. I am sure very many folks here would like to know how you managed to do this.

Quote:
No one is talking/advocating about evading taxes. What bothers most people is the duplication of taxes. I am all for yearly road taxes for temporary residents.
Good to know that you favour yearly payment of taxes. I am with you on that . I remember this was the case earlier as well. Every vehicle used to have a "Tax Disc" placed near the windshield and taxes were paid for a few years at a time. Duplication of taxes is not Karnataka state's head ache. A person decides to come to Karnataka state on his free own will. He decides to stay put here. Then it is his responsibility to ensure that he gets what ever dues his previous state has to give him. Why should the current state of residence break their heads over this? Did the new state (where the person stays now) forced him to come and settle down here?


Quote:
Originally Posted by dass
However, I am not sure if this is the same for two wheelers too? There are so many of them plying on the roads and most with scant disregards for law, not that the local registered two wheelers are good at following laws.
This could be a drive purely to increase the state's funds. Cars have a higher tax to pay so RTO may be focusing on that first. And when they are done with that, they may focus on the two wheelers.
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Old 18th July 2014, 15:19   #724
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

@Sachin Purely agree to your argument on taxes. As an Indian each one of us have our rights and duties .Its our duty to pay taxes.
There is a rule regarding out of state cars ,and the exception is for 11 months .
How can Karnataka government pull this down to 1 month?
This is actually creating problems for everyone.
Regarding getting the tax back its almost impossible.

I have paid RTO tax for my car and my two wheeler in Bangalore ,which I couldn't get back from the home state. Simply put,its very difficult.Those people don't even know that taxes can be given back.
The truth is we all know what is happening is wrong and this is not the way to treat our citizens.
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Old 18th July 2014, 15:24   #725
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

Quote:
Originally Posted by sachinpk View Post
If that does not work the only way is to file a public interest litigation (PIL), spend your money on lawyers and time in courts and get this sorted out through a court order.
I think a gentleman did that once and got the exemption for 11 months. Ideally, 11 months is a good enough time period for genuine short time stayers. It also gives the car owner a sufficient period to organize funds as well.

But as revenue started dipping, the State Govt took this step of changing the law to 30 days. Going by the current approach of execution (going by the very reports here by genuine short timers being targeted), any vehicle coming in to Karnataka borders is a potential source of revenue.

We can go on and on about fairness, justice, sati, Gandhigiri, British Raj etc. But the answer is binary - either your pay or you don't. The choice for both, lies with you.

The only way out is as sachinpk suggested, file a PIL. The only concern is, as they changed the law after the earlier case, there is no guarantee that they won't again if there is a favourable verdict. A few of us are initiating this shortly, please PM if you would be interested to join.
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Old 18th July 2014, 16:04   #726
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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Originally Posted by yousivakutti View Post
@Ajmat: Thanks for the inputs. My case is more than 40 Days now and still waiting for the reply from RTO Ghaziabad. Is there a place where I can see this rule? so that I can refer to the RTO Bangalore.
Well, I got my car transferred using AASI. After I paid the tax and subitted the NOC. I was told to wait for 40 says and apply for the reg no
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Old 18th July 2014, 16:17   #727
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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Originally Posted by aajohn View Post
The only way out is as sachinpk suggested, file a PIL. The only concern is, as they changed the law after the earlier case, there is no guarantee that they won't again if there is a favourable verdict.
Going by what is happening in this country, yes, it is the Supreme Court that can provide the much needed relief.

The litigation must be such as to ask the Supreme Court to define the 'reasonable period'- but if the court finds 1 month is a reasonable period, then no other option but to comply with it.
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Old 18th July 2014, 16:20   #728
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

If you look at this from a financial perspective, it makes a lot of sense to dispose your car in your home state and purchase a new vehicle in Karnataka, when you re-locate here.

While Karnataka has one of the highest road taxes, I also believe we have one of the highest re-sale value for used cars in the country.

Here is one example of a 2009 Mercedes S320 from T-Bhp classifieds

32 Lakhs, Coimbatore, 2009, S320 CDI, 56K kms, 2 owners

60 Lakhs, Bangalore, 2009, S320 CDI, 62K kms, 2 owners

I know condition plays a very important role in re-sale value and I haven't driven either of the cars. I was looking for a hatchback example, but couldn't find one.

The point I am trying to make is you have more to lose from using a out of state car hoping that the KA RTO will not stop you, than selling your old car in your existing state and buying a new car in KA.

If you just a bought a new car, and in the same year if you have got a higher paying job opportunity in Bangalore then just work in the cost of registering your car in Bangalore and negotiate a better package with your employer.

RTO collecting taxes is just pure Business, the city has grown out of bounds and they will only look at improving tax collection and widening the tax bracket. Even if they stop this they will increase tax in another form.

Lastly, if you haven't already please pick up a copy of:
Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki: What the Rich Teach Their Kids About Money That the Poor and Middle Class Do Not!
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Old 18th July 2014, 16:26   #729
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

I just heard that RTO caught our colleague's AP registered car during yesterday's massive loot drive at Electronic City. He was asked to pay around 30K road tax + another 15 K fine for using AP registered car in Bangalore!!

I see many MH/UP/CH/DL and few AP/KL/TN registered cars in our apartment complex. Most of them owns flats here!

Last edited by Latheesh : 18th July 2014 at 16:30.
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Old 18th July 2014, 16:26   #730
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

Here's what I heard from my friend whose family friend retired from KA RTO. The officers are pressurizing all service stations to provide residential addresses of all non KA cars. Guess they are determined to run behind all and make them pay the tax. Sad!
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Old 18th July 2014, 16:31   #731
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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Originally Posted by Latheesh View Post
I just heard that RTO caught our colleague's AP registered car during yesterday's massive loot drive at Electronic City. He was asked to pay around 30K road tax + another 15 K fine for using AP registered car in Bangalore!!

I see many MH/UP/CH/DL and few AP/KL/TN registered cars in our apartment complex. Most of them owns flats here!
RTO seizes 250 non KA cars. I did not see this was posted already
http://www.bangaloremirror.com/banga...w/38562621.cms
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Old 18th July 2014, 16:32   #732
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

Quote:
Originally Posted by commonman
There is a rule regarding out of state cars ,and the exception is for 11 months .
How can Karnataka government pull this down to 1 month?
Actually there is much more to what meets the eye. We have the Central Motor Vehicle Act (MV Act 1988) which gives the broad nation wise list of laws. But under that each state also has its own set of Motor Vehicle Rules (MVR). Here interpretations and state specific rules are added in. Only catch is that the rules should not be contradictory to the provisions of the parent Act. Example: Karnataka MV Rules mandates that every public transport vehicle needs to have an emergency door, neighbouring Kerala MV Rules does NOT have it. Kerala MV Rules has sections which ear-mark seats (in buses) for women, some other states MV Rules does NOT have it. So the gut feeling I have is that MV Act specifies/rules/mandates that a vehicle plying in one state has to ensure that it gets registered and pay the road tax of that state. The duration by which this has to be done may be specified in the state specific MV Rules. So Karnataka may have amended their MV Rules to reduce the time window to be of one month. Practising lawyers may be able to give more clarity on this. Even Karnataka earlier had the provision of a year (I have seen that in my old car's RC book).

Quote:
I have paid RTO tax for my car and my two wheeler in Bangalore ,which I couldn't get back from the home state. Simply put,its very difficult.
That does NOT take away the rights of Karnataka to get her tax dues, am I correct? Some one here had explained the process of a tax-refund FROM Karnataka. So they are okay to give back the taxes when the vehicle moves out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aajohn
any vehicle coming in to Karnataka borders is a potential source of revenue.
Karnataka had this practise of increasing the inter-state permit taxes (for public transport vehicles) to a very high level during tourist season (esp. in Mysore area).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ramzsys
Going by what is happening in this country, yes, it is the Supreme Court that can provide the much needed relief.
I don't think Supreme Court can be directly approached for such cases. SC is generally an appelate court (i.e which takes up appeals over verdicts given by lower courts). But perhaps the Karnataka High Court may be the first point. And it was the same Hon.SC who gave the order that sun-films be banned in vehicles. A review petition was filed, but it was rejected.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Latheesh
I see many MH/UP/CH/DL and few AP/KL/TN registered cars in our apartment complex. Most of them owns flats here!
Then can you really, honestly blame the RTO and Karnataka Govt.? People can pay lakhs & crores to buy flats yet go on whining that they are on a temporary visit. How ridiculous than this get? You give two years to these people to get the vehicle re-registered. They would NOT do it. And when the RTO starts it drive start complaining.

Last edited by sachinpk : 18th July 2014 at 16:36. Reason: Response to Latheesh added in.
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Old 18th July 2014, 16:33   #733
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BTW, is this only for four wheelers or are they cracking down on two wheelers too?
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Old 18th July 2014, 17:53   #734
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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Originally Posted by IronH4WK View Post
BTW, is this only for four wheelers or are they cracking down on two wheelers too?
Anil, Crackdown is on anything that moves with an engine and a non KA board
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Old 18th July 2014, 18:28   #735
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

Quote:
Originally Posted by sachinpk View Post


Then can you really, honestly blame the RTO and Karnataka Govt.? People can pay lakhs & crores to buy flats yet go on whining that they are on a temporary visit. How ridiculous than this get? You give two years to these people to get the vehicle re-registered. They would NOT do it. And when the RTO starts it drive start complaining.
The way you say, it sounds as if these are all some super rich people trying to cheat the govt. But in reality is it the case. They would all be law abiding citizens in all regards, ready to pay any amount of taxes to live a peaceful life. Hence it would be good if you could look at things from their perspective also.

A very high percentage of them would have scrapped their entire earnings, taken loans etc to buy a home. And again this would have generated income for karanataka govt only. By buying a home would not imply that all of them are rich or are going to settle down in bangalore for ever. People do that to save themselves from the ever increasing rents, hassles of shifting etc and finally make some tax savings. They would migrate back to their state or some other state after a few years. So do you think forcing them to pay LTT for 15 yrs is the right thing. There could be an annual road tax payment option. Which would make sense and I am sure something most of the non-KA owners would voluntarily pay within the first month of moving here. And if the vehicle completes 6-7yrs in karnataka in one stretch then maybe they can be asked to pay the LTT for the balance years.

When most of these non-KA owners are forced to pay this LTT within a weeks time or months time, where do you think they arrange the money. Very very few of them might have huge bank balances or wealthy parents to fall back upon to pull them out of the situation. For the rest it would be most probably dipping into their meagre savings, which would have been saved for kids education purposes or some medical treatment or marriage of near and dear ones or paying some loans. And for those who dont have such savings, it would mean getting a personal loan from some private bank at exorbitant interest rates or gold loans. And this would be the situation of most of these so-called-rich IT guys. Getting a refund from any state has it set ofhassles and cant be counted upon until you have the cheque or DD in your hand.

So cmon guys we should all be in the same page. We all are doing our level best to live a good life and give our families the best we could. Bangalore being the IT hub with better job opportunities we all landed here. No one wants to cheat karnataka govt or use things for free. KA car owners getting frustrated over sharing the road with non-KA car owners is understandable considering the higher road taxes paid by the former. But if the annual tax system is in place, would it not be a formidable solution to this problem. Rather than making them pay a huge amount in the name of LTT and throwing their life into a financial crisis.

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