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Old 21st July 2014, 12:42   #751
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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Originally Posted by BlackPearl View Post
But I have not done anything wrong, I came to Bangalore on the morning of 30th June. I have a PUC done in Kolkata on 27th June and have all the toll receipts to show my whereabouts. I am going back on 26th of July. What right did the police officer have to take away my documents when I have not crossed the 1 month limit yet. It is like putting somebody to jail thinking that the guy may commit a crime in future
Even that happens in this country, right? We put up with a lot of restrictions even though we don't like it. We would let them strip search us at the airports, if they get suspicious, right? People with beard and cap gets detained when untoward incidents occur, we put up with that. Police arrests suspects and are subjected to third-degree torture to prove cases. We put up with that.

Nobody protests until they become the victim or see themselves as a potential victim. We do forgo some of our human rights so that the authorities could do their job. These RTO checks are some mild inconveniences. As i said earlier, because of some offenders, others are suffering too. If the RTO officials could find all the offenders without these roadside checks, they would.Until that "technology" is in place, we would need to put up with it.
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Old 21st July 2014, 13:18   #752
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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Originally Posted by BlackPearl View Post
But I have not done anything wrong, I came to Bangalore on the morning of 30th June. I have a PUC done in Kolkata on 27th June and have all the toll receipts to show my whereabouts. I am going back on 26th of July. What right did the police officer have to take away my documents when I have not crossed the 1 month limit yet. It is like putting somebody to jail thinking that the guy may commit a crime in future
Can you give some details like where you were stopped, vehicle number and which RTO, you can PM me, let me see if I can help you out.
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Old 21st July 2014, 13:38   #753
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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Originally Posted by asdon View Post
Can you give some details like where you were stopped, vehicle number and which RTO, you can PM me, let me see if I can help you out.
Thanks asdon. I have sent you a PM with the details.
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Old 21st July 2014, 14:10   #754
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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Originally Posted by BlackPearl View Post
What right did the police officer have to take away my documents when I have not crossed the 1 month limit yet.
The RTO officer (RTO is not equal to Police) may have taken the law to the extremes. But seizing the documents (or worse, seizing the vehicle) is the only way he can ensure you go back to him with the proof. From what I read in the forum (and in news papers) KA Govt. is seeking all means to increase the funds they have in the state treasury. So for the RTO you are still a potential tax-evader. And if you indeed have to pay the tax, it just makes them meet their target easily. I feel that he has NOT believed your words that you would go back within one month.
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Old 21st July 2014, 14:36   #755
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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Originally Posted by BlackPearl View Post
But I have not done anything wrong, I came to Bangalore on the morning of 30th June. I have a PUC done in Kolkata on 27th June and have all the toll receipts to show my whereabouts. I am going back on 26th of July. What right did the police officer have to take away my documents when I have not crossed the 1 month limit yet. It is like putting somebody to jail thinking that the guy may commit a crime in future
Instead of running pillar to post for collecting your documents, I think you may leave your documents here and challenge in a Kolkata court with all supporting documents. You may even ask for damages.

Experts, correct me if I'm wrong.
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Old 21st July 2014, 14:53   #756
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

Some numbers may be helpfull for you -

E-City RTO PRO - 080-26482851/26483551
Public Relations Officer, Office of the Commissioner for Transport -
080-22210994
Mean while I have just passed on the details to a Sr.Officer in RTO, lets see.

Last edited by asdon : 21st July 2014 at 14:54.
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Old 21st July 2014, 15:03   #757
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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Originally Posted by blacksport View Post
You seem to be talking about some other country, not India. Here we don't pay anything unless there is a compulsion. Do you know that here people undervalue their properties in their sale deeds so that they can cheat on stamp duty? Do you know that the same people make fake bills/receipts so that they can cheat on income tax? Do you know that they buy furniture without a bill so that they can cheat on sales tax? Nobody pays anything willingly, govt has to compel them to do it. These checks are a method of compulsion. Else, even the ones who stay here for a full 15 years will not pay road tax.
Yes I agree terrorist / maoist / thugs kill but should it give right to state to hang people without trial ?

How does tax evasion on part of some individuals justify state government sponsored extortion holding hostages , In case of black-pearl and many others seizing their documents are kind of being held hostages.

BTW suppose if you are driving from Bangalore to eastern India through Orrisa and demanded tax to use roads in Orrisa as per prevailing practice would you have same stance in that case as well ?

When we talk of taxes and their utilization and castigate others for crimes of unknown people we forget several important things at hand.

I am really amazed at the level of son of soil approach visible here . No one for example questioned why a rich actor turned politician like Ambreesh should be payed from government expenses for his treatment in foreign land instead of world renowned Jayadeva institute of cardiology in Bangalore.
Did anyone remind such son of soils about their duty to poor and justifiable use of tax payers money ?

FYI there are many people mostly working in organized sector in Bangalore ( yours truly included) who pay all sorts of direct taxes such as IT , Property tax etc voluntarily on time and bankroll government to run vote catching scheme like annabhagya or MNREGA and we do not need sermons on the same.

Sorry for using harsh tone but this thread is unnecessarily running too long and going in to long and winding issues.
I just hope that centre cracks the whip and ends this non-sense ASAP.

FYI : All 3 vehicles that I have are KA registered so I am not an interested party but still I do support right of people to move freely across the territory of India.
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Old 21st July 2014, 15:11   #758
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
FYI : All 3 vehicles that I have are KA registered so I am not an interested party but still I do support right of people to move freely across the territory of India.
I don't think anyone in the forum is agaist real short term visitors to Karnataka, but what boils the blood when we see people residing here for years but not ready to pay the tax difference. The term change from 11 motnhs to 30 days is a day light crime by the Govt.

But what would you say to those who are owning properties here, residing here for years but driving Non-KA reg vehicles???
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Old 21st July 2014, 15:15   #759
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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Originally Posted by amitk26
How does tax evasion on part of some individuals justify state government sponsored extortion holding hostages , In case of black-pearl and many others seizing their documents are kind of being held hostages.
I disagree. Seizing the documents (or the vehicle) is the only way the RTO can ensure that blackpearl (or the individual concerned) comes back with all the evidence. It becomes a violation of human rights etc., if blackpearl (or the other individuals) are arrested and put behind bars and have to be bailed out. From what I could make out, the RTO has not believed blackpearl when he says he would go back in a month's time. And we cannot blame the RTO, as he would be listening to such excuses day in and day out. Know people who even after staying here for 4 years, trying to fool the RTO that he just landed a week ago.

Quote:
BTW suppose if you are driving from Bangalore to eastern India through Orrisa and demanded tax to use roads in Orrisa as per prevailing practice would you have same stance in that case as well ?
The prevailing practise (in Bangalore) is to give a person one month's time, where as other states give a year's time. Only then would the RTO start their attempts to collect the tax. So if Orissa plans to do the same, they can do it by amending the state MV Rules. But I don't think they can reduce the time frame further and make it to say one day.

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No one for example questioned why a rich actor turned politician like Ambreesh should be payed from government expenses for his treatment in foreign land instead of world renowned Jayadeva institute of cardiology in Bangalore.
That point would not get debated here as this is an auto-mobile forum. Bringing in politics here would sure mess up things. And we cannot say that road taxes cannot be paid, because Ambareesh gets an easy life at tax payer's expense. Only thing we can say is to elect better people next time so that Ambareesh sits at home (and works for survival).

Quote:
FYI there are many people mostly working in organized sector in Bangalore ( yours truly included) who pay all sorts of direct taxes such as IT , Property tax etc voluntarily on time
IT gets paid mostly on time because for most people it is TDS. Business people etc. still has ways and means to show a lesser income. Same goes with property tax. Every one may not be doing the same, but real estate sector in Bangalore is another shady area, with no one really knowing which laws are getting violated.
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Old 21st July 2014, 15:31   #760
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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Originally Posted by sachinpk View Post
I disagree. Seizing the documents (or the vehicle) is the only way the RTO can ensure that blackpearl (or the individual concerned) comes back with all the evidence. It becomes a violation of human rights etc., if blackpearl (or the other individuals) are arrested and put behind bars and have to be bailed out. From what I could make out, the RTO has not believed blackpearl when he says he would go back in a month's time. And we cannot blame the RTO, as he would be listening to such excuses day in and day out. Know people who even after staying here for 4 years, trying to fool the RTO that he just landed a week ago.
Disagree.

I assume blackpearl is a genuine tourist visiting Bangalore for a short period. How can he prove that he returned? Drive all the way to Kolkatha without documents (he may face issues in other states too), collect toll receipts and visit Bangalore RTO again to prove? Stay in Bangalore, if the officer is on leave?

On the other hand, RTO has all resources to prove that a car is in Bangalore for x period. They should use all resources to PROVE and seize/fine real violators.

Some ten years back, RTO seized my that time Boss's Skoda. He said this car is on visit but RTO showed them proof that this car was shuttling children between a school and Meenakshi Mall for a long time. He had to make the payment without a word.
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Old 21st July 2014, 15:57   #761
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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I disagree. Seizing the documents (or the vehicle) is the only way the RTO can ensure that blackpearl (or the individual concerned) comes back with all the evidence. It becomes a violation of human rights etc.,
Your disagreement does not matter. What matters is the law of the land, which clearly states "Innocent, until proven guilty"..
What next. Arrest all car owners because they may use their vehicle for kidnapping?
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Old 21st July 2014, 16:07   #762
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

So what can be done for a genuine tourist entering Bangalore for a weekend and going back? I mean how does he prove that he will be staying only for a couple of days. I ask this because I have a Bangalore trip this weekend and will be coming back on Monday evening.
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Old 21st July 2014, 16:50   #763
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sachinpk your disagreement and RTOs high handed methods does not make something right.
Onus of proving tax default is on concerned authority and not on individual so RTO need to prove tax default first.
This is established legal position for all taxation matters which is applicable to road tax as well

All tax matters are civil disputes and not criminal so RTOs are not given any powers to arrest else I am sure officials high on powertrip might have done whatever you are suggesting.

As in the case of your boss's skoda they should have tracked cars movement and proved default before seazure.

It seems Bangalore doesn't have enough legalistic minded activists with ample time and resources at hand unlike Delhi or else local activist circuit doesn't find issue related to presumably rich outsiders meaty enough to grab eyeballs else someone would have taken this to court.

Last edited by amitk26 : 21st July 2014 at 16:57.
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Old 21st July 2014, 17:02   #764
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

Genuine tourists will have some hotel booked and can show the documents, but the way Karnataka RTO is behaving, if someone is visiting a relative for weekend or so, seems to be a problem.

And again do we have the correct observation of the law? is it 30 days in continuation or 30 days in a year?
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Old 21st July 2014, 17:10   #765
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

there also seems to be a silent local consensus (no skin off their back anyways) that whatever is happening is for good. The folks who are caught are 2% of the population, and that too some bloody migrants + fortune hunters at that. They are crowding the roads with their cars and the true denizens have to face some difficulty in this IT version of wild west while navigating traffic, so more laws against migrants, the merrier it is for the natives.

The migrants themselves seem to be mostly middle class, who are over compliant, have no stomach for a fight either with the state or with anything else. They will pay up and not make a whimper. Since there are far bigger problem that other parts of the country have to face, this constantly goes below the radar, so other states do not focus their attention on the state of KA. And this encourages the so-called 'bureaucrats' and 'RTO employees' even more, they get more brazen in their tactics.
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