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Old 23rd July 2014, 09:48   #826
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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Originally Posted by sachinpk View Post
My suggestion would be to continue with the drive, seize the vehicles or documents. Allow the tax payment to be made online. A print out from this system can be used to get the vehicle/documents back.
And extend the deadline from 1 to 3 months. Not everyone will have 50k - 1lac readily available for paying the LTT and people who really want to pay the taxes will feel better if they get sufficient time to arrange the funds.

I am also not sure about the yearly tax and would prefer the LTT, but not in this fashion. The way RTO is handling the situation totally negates the fundamental point and portrays as a money extracting scheme.
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Old 23rd July 2014, 09:52   #827
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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Originally Posted by binand View Post
This came in today's Bangalore Mirror:

http://www.bangaloremirror.com/articleshow/38221205.cms

This completely lets off the hook a lot of people. I hope they (the KA transport dept) takes a positive view of this whole mess.
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolclouds View Post
Saw this on HVK facebook forum:


Attachment 1257638
As per the constitution - State governments can impose taxes on vehicles, but these are subject to principles laid out by the Central govt.

Don't the decisions taken in the Transport Development Council meeting amount to 'principles' that the State government need to follow ? If it does, then the 1 month amendment by the KA legislature won't hold good in a court.

What do the legal experts on the forum think ?

Last edited by sdp1975 : 23rd July 2014 at 10:08.
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Old 23rd July 2014, 10:02   #828
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

What Karnataka State Govt is doing with a one month limit for one time tax is illegal as per the Central Motor vehicle regulation act Section 47. If you read the CMVR properly, if you have a vehicle registered in one state you can use it any where else for upto 12 months without paying tax. For people who travel between states, they can retain original registration as long as they are in possession of the property where the vehicle was registered.
In a case between a CH registered Porsche detained by Ahmedabad RTO the vehicle was released by court order as the office in Chandigarh where the car was registered was in possession of the car owners. It was clearly stated that even if the registered address is rented out to some one for a short period it can be considered that owner doesn't have possession and vehicle can be detained and charged with tax evasion but even if the house is empty it will be considered to be in owners possession.

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Old 23rd July 2014, 10:21   #829
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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Originally Posted by sachinpk View Post
Perhaps we need to check how far such petitions have helped in solving problems. For example in the sad case of a school girl getting molested in a school in Bangalore, more than the online petition mass protests made the difference.

The RTO would have their own concerns on how people would pay the road tax annually. One challenge would be, just before the time period gets over a person crosses over to another state, get the toll receipts and comes back. I am very apprehensive of the honesty of people in general. The RTO would find it tough to prove their case, and all non-KA vehicles would have a field day in evading KA road taxes. I don't believe that all would just pay up the tax online.

My suggestion would be to continue with the drive, seize the vehicles or documents. Allow the tax payment to be made online. A print out from this system can be used to get the vehicle/documents back.
If we can pay insurance on yearly basis, why not LTT ?. It used to yearly sometime back, and many govt decide to make it LTT as collecting yearly was a huge resource overhead in RTO. Now with online payment abilities, this is no more a issue..
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Old 23rd July 2014, 10:42   #830
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdp1975 View Post

As per the constitution - State governments can impose taxes on vehicles, but these are subject to principles laid out by the Central govt.

Don't the decisions taken in the Transport Development Council meeting amount to 'principles' that the State government need to follow ? If it does, then the 1 month amendment by the KA legislature won't hold good in a court.

What do the legal experts on the forum think ?
I am not legal expert but a PIL seems to be the only way out.
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Old 23rd July 2014, 10:54   #831
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

Quote:
Originally Posted by satan's_valet
And extend the deadline from 1 to 3 months. Not everyone will have 50k - 1lac readily available for paying the LTT and people who really want to pay the taxes will feel better if they get sufficient time to arrange the funds.
Agreed. But in that case till the tax gets paid the original documents would remain with the RTO. And in case the vehicle is seized, the vehicle would remain in RTO custody and perhaps an extra fine levied for keeping the vehicle. Remember, RTO is using BMTC bus depot to hold such vehicles. BMTC may demand to be paid for that, as their precious space gets taken up. I don't know if this is the reason why RTO is also insisting quick payments. They don't have so large space to keep all these vehicles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdp1975
As per the constitution - State governments can impose taxes on vehicles, but these are subject to principles laid out by the Central govt.
The principles are just the over-all directions. For example every vehicle owner needs to pay a road tax, and it is the state government's responsibility to collect it. That is also defined in the MV Act. Now next question is how does this gets implemented on ground? That is defined in MV Rules which is state specific (and there is the CMV Rules as well). So each state can define the ways and rules to collect the state road taxes. So Karnataka State govt. has decided to give one month's time for any one to pay the LTT. Most of the other states have kept the dead line as one year.

Quote:
Don't the decisions taken in the Transport Development Meeting amount to 'principles' that the State government need to follow ? If it does, then the 1 month amendment by the KA legislature won't hold good in a court.
Unless there is a written law drafted at the Central Govt. level (and applicable for the whole Union of India) which states that every state in India should allow a time window of one year (or 11 months) to pay LTT for vehicles coming from other states, I don't think the case would fly. But I am willing to be corrected.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rahul Rao
What Karnataka State Govt is doing with a one month limit for one time tax is illegal as per the Central Motor vehicle regulation act Section 47. If you read the CMVR properly, if you have a vehicle registered in one state you can use it any where else for upto 12 months without paying tax.
Can you provide a link to the CMV Rules? It would be a good reading for every one. For me, it would help me to improve my knowledge.

Last edited by sachinpk : 23rd July 2014 at 10:55. Reason: Question to Rahul Rao added.
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Old 23rd July 2014, 12:20   #832
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rahul Rao View Post
What Karnataka State Govt is doing with a one month limit for one time tax is illegal as per the Central Motor vehicle regulation act Section 47. If you read the CMVR properly, if you have a vehicle registered in one state you can use it any where else for upto 12 months without paying tax.
I did some scouting and found the below links...
http://admis.hp.nic.in/himpol/Citize..._1989/MAIN.htm

My assumption is that this is the most recent (and valid) CMV Rules we have at the moment.
Sec.47 deals with the Application for registration of motor vehicles. As per that section, it is only listing out the procedure for Applying for a Registration certificate. In summary, this section states that:-
1. Application for registration done using Form 20 within seven days after a vehicle is purchased/taking delivery of vehicle. We also need to show the Sale related documents etc.
2. Proof of address, and the proofs are described in Rule 4 - we shall come back this later.

So Rule (or Sec.47) applies to only newly registered vehicles. It does NOT explicitly state any thing in the case of vehicles already registered in one state, moving over to another state.

Rule 4 deals with Evidence as to the correctness of address and age. This rule lists out all documents which can be taken as evidence to prove correctness of address and age. This section is pretty much self explanatory. It also has a provision in case a person does not have such documents to prove his point. The provision reads.. PROVIDED that “where the applicant is not able to produce any of the above mentioned documents for sufficient reason, the licensing authority may accept any affidavit sworn by the applicant before an Executive Magistrate, or a First Class judicial Magistrate or a Notary Public as evidence of age and address.

If you notice both Rule 47 and Rule 4 does not talk about any provisions regarding movement of a vehicle registerd in one state to another, and how taxes have to be collected for that reason. Rule 47 states that registering a vehicle is mandatory, and Rule 4 lists out the valid documents for address and age proof. So if you ask me (I am not a lawyer), these rules does not forbid Karnataka Govt. in collecting their tax dues in any manner.
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Old 23rd July 2014, 23:49   #833
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

I have 2008 TN Civic and I calculate the LTT in karnataka to be 1.3L !!. Is it worth paying this tax or sell the car ?. My car has run only 38k

Even if I pay the tax, I am not planning to go for re-registration nor get refund from TN. So will I get refund from KA RTO, if I decide to leave KA after couple of years ?.

What are all the docs required to pay LTT in KA ?
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Old 24th July 2014, 00:11   #834
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

Just wanted to update that I saw a lot of out of state vehicles stopped for RTO checks right after the Agara flyover on 22nd July morning.

I guess they were interested only in the "big fish", my TN registered bike did not catch their attention.

I guess these RTO folks have really gone into over drive!

Law is the law, but its a stoooopid law...
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Old 24th July 2014, 06:57   #835
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Originally Posted by praful View Post
Just wanted to update that I saw a lot of out of state vehicles stopped for RTO checks right after the Agara flyover on 22nd July morning..
What time was this? I pass through this area and didn't spot anything. Usually the RTO is tied up with yellow board inspection near mantri apartments when I leave at 8:45.
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Old 24th July 2014, 07:36   #836
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Originally Posted by abishek2222 View Post
RTO targeting non KA high end cars on brigade road today.

Same car.Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore-imageuploadedbyteambhp1406167511.644712.jpgCase: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore-imageuploadedbyteambhp1406167538.966817.jpg   <div style=
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Old 24th July 2014, 08:50   #837
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

Good to see that even the luxury cars havent been spared this time round. Now, i hope someone influential in that set goes on to flex his clout.
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Old 24th July 2014, 09:23   #838
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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Originally Posted by aajohn View Post
What time was this? I pass through this area and didn't spot anything. Usually the RTO is tied up with yellow board inspection near mantri apartments when I leave at 8:45.
This was at around 9:30AM on 22nd

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Don't worry, you are next!
LoL. I'll probably let them keep my bike, its wayyy too old anyways.
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Old 24th July 2014, 09:26   #839
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

Karnataka Govt is reaping what they have sown. They give opportunity for cooperates to grow in this land. Created lots of job opportunity for youngsters decades ago. Most of them grown up and settle down here. We have considered earning part and kept the expense part aside. Now it is time to pay for it. In the way of Road taxes, in crores for 2 bedroom flats, salary levels become saturated, unsecured schools for kids etc etc. Way to go govt.
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Old 24th July 2014, 09:47   #840
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

Guys need a help. My colleague car is seized by RTO.

He stays in Hosur and has a TN17 Hosur registered car and works in ECity.His VW polo is 6 months old. So twice a week,he commutes between Hosur and EC since. But the RTO guys are telling he has to pay taxes for this. Any suggestions on what he should do? How he should get his car back?

Last edited by sagarpadaki : 24th July 2014 at 09:52.
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