Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 24th July 2014, 19:53   #916
BHPian
 
asdon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 950
Thanked: 293 Times
Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

Quote:
Originally Posted by naveenroy View Post
Yes, I am surprised that I have not yet seen any details of the court being moved in this regard. Surely there are lawyers in the forum who can advise.

For us mango people, surely the courts are the last resort. We don't have the muscle to fight it out any other way.
A wrong myth which should be changed. I personally experienced court for the first time in my life, though a consumer court and I got a judgement in my favour in 11 days. That is a different story and I will share in a different thread as its related to Auto-Insurance industry.

Atleast we can move to court and get a stay on current operation and seek a review of the legislature.
asdon is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 24th July 2014, 20:01   #917
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 910
Thanked: 297 Times
Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

Today morning, RTO was checking vehicles in front of sadashivanagar police station. 1 HR, 1DL, 2 AP, 1MH and 1TN. Pity those poor souls. Probably students from Ramiah college. Guess now the RTO has shifted to North Bangalore.
wildsdi5530 is offline  
Old 24th July 2014, 20:03   #918
Senior - BHPian
 
naveenroy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 1,319
Thanked: 694 Times
Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

Quote:
Originally Posted by asdon View Post
A wrong myth which should be changed. I personally experienced court for the first time in my life, though a consumer court and I got a judgement in my favour in 11 days. That is a different story and I will share in a different thread as its related to Auto-Insurance industry.

Atleast we can move to court and get a stay on current operation and seek a review of the legislature.
Yes, maybe the way I'd said it was not right. I meant it is the best resort. We must at least move the courts and see what happens.
naveenroy is offline  
Old 24th July 2014, 21:16   #919
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,143
Thanked: 684 Times
Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

Quote:
Originally Posted by SILVERWOOD View Post
As article 19 of our constitution says "The freedom of movement is guaranteed by the constitution and citizens can move from one state to another and anywhere within a state. A person is free to move from any point to any point within the country's territories."
That comes with a caveat. No where does this freedom of movement say that it is a free ride. Even today nobody stops a non-KA person to settle down in KA. Infact in cities like Bangalore, non-Kannadigas are more in number than Kannadigas. So the "freedom of movement" is guaranteed. Karnataka Govt. cannot say they would not let any non-Kannadiga come inside the state.

How ever "freedom of movement" does not allow you to violate the rules and laws of the land. For example, I cannot just board a train to my home town and say that I would NOT take a ticket as freedom of movement is my right. In that case soon the freedom would end inside a police lock up.
sachinpk is offline   (3) Thanks
Old 25th July 2014, 04:55   #920
Team-BHP Support
 
benbsb29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 8,025
Thanked: 3,483 Times
Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

Quote:
Originally Posted by arun_josie View Post
- NOC is not required for LTT in KA
- If you are taking NOC then you can re-register in KA and apply for refund in TN
When i paid the road tax for my AP registered bike in Bangalore in 2006, the NOC was required in order to pay the LTT. I guess in the current greed to rake in the money, they may not be enforcing the NOC to pay up, as we saw with Santosh's case when he paid the tax for his Wagon R.
benbsb29 is online now  
Old 25th July 2014, 07:26   #921
BHPian
 
devil_klm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 407
Thanked: 186 Times
Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

Quote:
Originally Posted by poloman View Post
Absolutely the PIL if anyone planning should focus on key issues.
1) Grace period of minimum 3 months.
2) Option to pay yearly tax.
3) Relaxation for people staying in border towns.
4) A window for refund in case of returning back to the home state. Grace period same as within which tax has to be paid( 1 month as of now ) and eligibility to collect fine/interest amount from RTO in case of any delay.
devil_klm is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 25th July 2014, 07:31   #922
Senior - BHPian
 
svsantosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hosur
Posts: 3,309
Thanked: 1,389 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by benbsb29 View Post
....they may not be enforcing the NOC to pay up, as we saw with Santosh's case when he paid the tax for his Wagon R.
Correction - my friend's.

I am a hosurian and drive a TN70 car. I have gathered 20+ friends to look into the latest news of one hosurian forced to pay LTT.
svsantosh is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 25th July 2014, 07:49   #923
BHPian
 
asdon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 950
Thanked: 293 Times
Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
Correction - my friend's.

I am a hosurian and drive a TN70 car. I have gathered 20+ friends to look into the latest news of one hosurian forced to pay LTT.
I have few Bangaloreans who support free movement of vehicles from neighboring districts of another state, more when the residing state's capital is a border city, we are looking at legal options now, will anyone from this 20+ population be interested in joining hands?

I have a fear that if the same trend is taken up by other state RTOs then I am going to be in trouble soon as I spend almost 70% of my drive on highways and those are not always in Karnataka.
asdon is offline   (6) Thanks
Old 25th July 2014, 09:32   #924
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 80
Thanked: 87 Times
Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

I think our RTOs are being penny wise and pound foolish. Sure there are a lot of out of state people working here with their vehicles plying regularly. To make some revenue off of them, our govt. has jeopardized an even bigger source of income: tourism. How many out of staters would think twice before visting Bangalore? I certainly wouldn't visit any city with such a ridiculous rule. I'd drive around that city and stay at a smaller town to avoid the possible harassment.

A State should not be allowed to set such draconian deadlines. Wish the Central govt. would set a minimum period of 6 months across the country before the State can seize an out of state vehicle and demand road tax (yearly or LTT choice).

If any of our neighbouring states decide to implement this ridiculous rule state wide; I'm gonna cross out that state from any of my future travel plans. As far as I'm concerned, that State is not a part of India. If I can't ride/drive there, that place is not worth visting for us.

Also, for any lawyers in the house, isn't it unconstitutional/illegal for the RTO to seize a vehicle without them proving that the vehicle in question has actually been in KA for more than a month and getting a court order?

OTOH, I'd love to see BTP cops impounding interstate buses and demand they pay LTT and register locally!
bravo6 is offline   (7) Thanks
Old 25th July 2014, 09:45   #925
BHPian
 
avira_tk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 672
Thanked: 643 Times
Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

Quote:
Originally Posted by sachinpk View Post
That comes with a caveat. No where does this freedom of movement say that it is a free ride. Even today nobody stops a non-KA person to settle down in KA. Infact in cities like Bangalore, non-Kannadigas are more in number than Kannadigas. So the "freedom of movement" is guaranteed. Karnataka Govt. cannot say they would not let any non-Kannadiga come inside the state.

How ever "freedom of movement" does not allow you to violate the rules and laws of the land. For example, I cannot just board a train to my home town and say that I would NOT take a ticket as freedom of movement is my right. In that case soon the freedom would end inside a police lock up.
No one is asking for a free ride and that example of ticketless travel is a non sequitur, completely unrelated to the discussion, if you get harassed for travelling in your car to another state it means a violation of fundamental rights. You have been supporting this because it doesn't affect you. I hope you have the same enthusiasm for paying up if you car gets stopped and seized in a neighbouring state while on vacation there.

It doesn't matter what the law says, common sense tells you that a policeman has more powers than the court, unless someone is residing in the state, there should be no obligation to pay LTT. My dad's Fiesta can't be taken out because it'll be seized, it's one of the perks that come with living near a tech park. That is how the law is enforced, going to visit family in Bangalore? pay LTT. The rto drive happens only in Bangalore, no need to elaborate why. The Fiesta is here only for 28 days, perhaps you can enlighten me as to how to convince the rto of the same?
avira_tk is offline   (8) Thanks
Old 25th July 2014, 09:51   #926
Senior - BHPian
 
sdp1975's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,592
Thanked: 920 Times
Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

Quote:
Originally Posted by bravo6 View Post
I think our RTOs are being penny wise and pound foolish.
That is exactly what crossed my mind a few days ago. When people come to a State, they spend money in different ways - food , petrol, etc etc . Any economy thrives on free movement rather than restrictive ideas.

While these new rules will make money for the government in the short run, I'm sure the State will stand to lose in the longer run - leave apart the lost goodwill it will never recover.
sdp1975 is online now   (1) Thanks
Old 25th July 2014, 09:54   #927
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,143
Thanked: 684 Times
Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

Quote:
Originally Posted by benbsb29
I guess in the current greed to rake in the money, they may not be enforcing the NOC to pay up, as we saw with Santosh's case when he paid the tax for his Wagon R.
Even way back in 1998 I did the same thing. These folks are interested in getting the road tax. Changing the registration number is not what they focus on. I am also okay with this as long as I get the tax receipt (and not paying a bribe). Even the Bangalore Traffic Police does not seem to be bothered with the registration number of the vehicle *. They just note it down in the blackberries they have and collect the fine.

* Though as in the case of many state police forces, there is more enthusiasm in flagging down out the state vehicles .

Quote:
Originally Posted by bravo6
To make some revenue off of them, our govt. has jeopardized an even bigger source of income: tourism.
How is Tourism going to be impacted? Please scan this thread which is now 62 pages. No one - especially a tourist - has complained that the RTO harassed them and made them to pay the LTT. We have two border line cases (one month stay & daily commute from Hosur). Other than that the so called victims do not have any excuse. They themselves know that they have been in Bangalore for long and just ignored paying the tax for so long. So if you ask me RTO has been just focusing on long timers at Bangalore.

Quote:
OTOH, I'd love to see BTP cops impounding interstate buses and demand they pay LTT and register locally!
The drive for collecting LTT is by the RTO (Regional Transport Authority) and not BTP. Interstate buses are public carriages. They have their own permits and different set of rules. They cannot be compared with private vehicles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by avira_tk
if you get harassed for travelling in your car to another state it means a violation of fundamental rights.
What do you mean by harassment? RTO is legally authorised to check any vehicle. Traffic Police and Highway Police squads regularly pull up vehicles to check and see if they have violated an rules. Other state vehicles also gets pulled over. How can that be harassment? Are you expecting to roam around in your vehicle with no one going to stop you? Fat chance that is going to happen in the real world.

Quote:
unless someone is residing in the state, there should be no obligation to pay LTT
And that is exactly what is happening now as well. RTO is identiying vehicles which are here for a long time. Hence the focus on areas where chances of getting long time stayers are high. As some one already highlighted here RTO has even asked Servicing Agencies to cough up list of non-KA vehicles which regularly come to their place. RTO is also checking for Apartment & Company parking stickers. In this entire thread I have only seen two borderline cases where the RTO *may* have jumped the gun.

Quote:
My dad's Fiesta can't be taken out because it'll be seized, it's one of the perks that come with living near a tech park. That is how the law is enforced, going to visit family in Bangalore?
Folks like asdon has helped a few people by suggesting the steps to prove your case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdp1975
While these new rules will make money for the government in the short run, I'm sure the State will stand to lose in the longer run
The state if you ask me have made quite big money during the last 20 years (with IT boom) . They now really don't want people with non-KA registered vehicles to roam around without paying a paisa as tax. So fine, people may have to back to their mother states. I guess the state is also fine with that. Many of us have a misconception that Bengaluru is just waiting for more and more people to come in, and to allow that they are ready to forego even their genuine tax dues. The state looks like, thinks other wise.

Last edited by sachinpk : 25th July 2014 at 10:11. Reason: More responses added in..
sachinpk is offline  
Old 25th July 2014, 10:19   #928
Distinguished - BHPian
 
arun_josie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 2,337
Thanked: 4,229 Times
Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

Quote:
Originally Posted by benbsb29 View Post
When i paid the road tax for my AP registered bike in Bangalore in 2006, the NOC was required in order to pay the LTT. I guess in the current greed to rake in the money, they may not be enforcing the NOC to pay up, as we saw with Santosh's case when he paid the tax for his Wagon R.
Yes, even Crazy_Driver found it difficult to pay the road tax minus NOC.

But this is what the RTO website says under the FAQs,

4. Whether NOC (NO objection Certificate) is required for payment of Tax ?

NOC is not a requirement for payment of tax .

http://rto.kar.nic.in/
arun_josie is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 25th July 2014, 10:51   #929
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 80
Thanked: 87 Times
Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

Quote:
Originally Posted by sachinpk View Post
How is Tourism going to be impacted? Please scan this thread which is now 62 pages. No one - especially a tourist - has complained that the RTO harassed them and made them to pay the LTT.
How will they differentiate between someone who has just entered Bangalore, and someone who has been staying here for longer? If they don't have proof to begin with, how can they take action?
Please read: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post3391245
He clearly fell in the "tourist" category. Now if this happened to someone who had come here for a month long trip, do you think he'd want to ever come back?

Or imagine such a rule being implemented in Ooty and your vehicle getting impounded when you drive there and you don't have toll tickets to prove date of entry. Won't that affect tourism there?

Please note that I'm not defending those that are practically living here with non-KA vehicles. Of course they should be fined and made to pay road tax here. But first, RTO should make sure such vehicles have actually violated our laws. IMHO they should track when an outside vehicle enters or leaves KA, and only those that exceed the limit should be seized.

As with all laws, there are loopholes in this one too. One can for instance travel to Hosur every month, to get an emission certificate or toll ticket to prove they have "just arrived" to BLR. Aren't they right, legally speaking?

Quote:
The drive for collecting LTT is by the RTO (Regional Transport Authority) and not BTP.
Ah ok, thanks for the correction.

Quote:
Interstate buses are public carriages. They have their own permits and different set of rules. They cannot be compared with private vehicles.
I meant that as a joke, to highlight the ridiculousness of such laws.


Quote:
Originally Posted by im_srini View Post
The "Amendment Bill" states:
Explanation 2. - In respect of motor vehicles registered outside the State of Karnataka and which are in the State for a period exceeding thirty days, notwithstanding anything contained in the provisions of the Motor Vehicles Act, 1988 ( Central Act 59 of 1988 ), and in any order or direction contained in any judgment or any order of any Court, tax shall be levied as specified in Parts A1, A2, A4, A5, A6, A7 and A8 as the case may be"
...
Does anybody else think that the tone & language reeks of contemptuousness ?
So if there are any relevant rulings by the Supreme Court, our govt. can be charged for contempt?

Last edited by bravo6 : 25th July 2014 at 10:58.
bravo6 is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 25th July 2014, 11:15   #930
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: BANG-A-LURE.
Posts: 1,114
Thanked: 3,483 Times
Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

Quote:
Originally Posted by sachinpk View Post
How ever "freedom of movement" does not allow you to violate the rules and laws of the land. For example, I cannot just board a train to my home town and say that I would NOT take a ticket as freedom of movement is my right. In that case soon the freedom would end inside a police lock up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SILVERWOOD View Post
As article 19 of our constitution says "The freedom of movement is guaranteed by the constitution and citizens can move from one state to another and anywhere within a state. A person is free to move from any point to any point within the country's territories."

We want this freedom extended to our rides as well.

Waseem.
You are barking up LOUD at the wrong tree.I have written it very clearly that we want this freedom to be extended to our rides as well.

And thanks for letting us know that you cannot travel without a ticket to your hometown(s), i have been doing this since ages and have never bought a ticket in a plane as well.

Waseem.
SILVERWOOD is offline   (4) Thanks
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Buy car in state or out of state (Major price difference) autoenthusiast The Indian Car Scene 49 14th July 2017 01:21
Karnataka RTO - sms RTO to get Vehicle details 71Convertible The Indian Car Scene 83 8th October 2016 08:09
Where should I sell the car: State of Registration or Current State? m_upreti The Indian Car Scene 50 12th July 2016 17:38
RTO problems for transfering in own state vipinshetty The Indian Car Scene 5 20th February 2013 17:13


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 09:24.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks