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Old 25th July 2014, 15:49   #961
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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Originally Posted by SILVERWOOD View Post
Few states exempt serving personnel from paying road tax even if they buy new vehicles and few states like ours tax them even if they bring their own vehicles from their last posting.

I am sure few among us would justify this act of Govt as well.
Err, and why shouldn't the government tax them? Am I missing something here?
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Old 25th July 2014, 15:50   #962
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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Originally Posted by BBR_SHR
Does anybody know any instance of military personnel managing their cars/taxes? Since they move from city/state every 2-3 yrs, I wonder how they manage this NOC-LTT-Refund cycle. OR they don't?!
Generally defence employees are exempted from paying state road tax when they move around. They pay the tax of the state from where the vehicle was purchased. After that they don't have to pay road tax when they get posted out to another part of the country. I need to check if Military People are totally exempted from paying the road tax.

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Originally Posted by lazy
For the Defence folks, a quick show of the ID is all it usually takes to make the RTO/Traffic Police to let them pass. Thankfully, I say. (am not a defence employee)
That only works in areas which has a large military presence, and where police and RTO generally are either too corrupt or do not command any respect. In many of the South Indian states this does not hold good. Earlier there were incidents of Army folks ganging up and bashing up police men on duty, and ransacking police stations. But that has been now curbed. The latest incident was in Pune and to be honest the Army people were at the receiving end. Individual army personnel also can be fined for MV Rule violations. I have personally seen Sub Inspector of Kerala Police fining a soldier for not wearing a seat belt. He pulled out the ID card and said he was a soldier, the SI verified that for his identity collected Rs.100/- and issued a TR5 Receipt. I was next in the line, so I saw all this . How ever police cannot "arrest" or detain a soldier in a police lockup. In case detention is required they need to take him to the nearest military or provost unit.

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Originally Posted by svsantosh
Can you post the amendment copy or the link? PM is also Ok!
Don't bother to scroll up. I have figured out the URL. The amendment is there at http://rto.kar.nic.in/Cab%20Tax%202014.pdf
And here is a link to the original Karnataka State Motor Vehicles Taxation Act - 1957. Please cross-verify the amendments in the above link with the one given below. That would help you know the new rules.
http://dpal.kar.nic.in/pdf_files%5CM...%20(Final).pdf

Last edited by sachinpk : 25th July 2014 at 16:11. Reason: Link to the MV Taxation Act of Karnataka.
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Old 25th July 2014, 15:53   #963
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

Breaking News - RTO Checking infront of Mantri Sarovar on ORR, towards Silkboard.. saw about 10 highends standing.
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Old 25th July 2014, 15:55   #964
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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Originally Posted by asdon View Post
Breaking News - RTO Checking infront of Mantri Sarovar on ORR, towards Silkboard.. saw about 10 highends standing.
Saw that around 1PM when I was driving to EC (my unusual route). A TN Registred Figo and an AP Registered Verna along with 2 LCVs with protruding iron roads.
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Old 25th July 2014, 16:09   #965
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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Originally Posted by SILVERWOOD View Post
few states like ours tax them even if they bring their own vehicles from their last posting.

I am sure few among us would justify this act of Govt as well.
And why not?

Anyways they are getting huge benefit by not paying toll tax on major highways, they get huge discount while buying the vehicle, many taxes like vat & service taxes +Edu tax are waived off, then why can't they pay road tax?
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Old 25th July 2014, 16:16   #966
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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Originally Posted by asdon View Post
And why not?

Anyways they are getting huge benefit by not paying toll tax on major highways, they get huge discount while buying the vehicle, many taxes like vat & service taxes +Edu tax are waived off, then why can't they pay road tax?
One reason I can think of is that unlike other government departments, defense forces have no independent sources of revenue. So every rupee they spend is already generated by taxing something. There is no point in taxing a tax, so to speak - it does not add to the government's total tax revenue. So make it all tax-free and save on the paperwork cost at least.
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Old 25th July 2014, 16:23   #967
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

Quote:
Originally Posted by SILVERWOOD View Post
RTO guys can ask you any document pertaining to your vehicle during checking where as traffic policemen can ask you only DL in case of a traffic violation.
What's the power of cops in full khaki when it comes to traffic related activities? I ask because mostly cities have dedicated traffic cops. Rural areas only have regular cops. I've seen them stop and check vehicle documents as well. A classic example is Nandi Hills on weekends. Last time I made the mistake of going there on a weekend, I saw that regular cops were stopping every single vehicle and checking documents.

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Originally Posted by sachinpk View Post
We need to blame our own education system for this mess. We can memorise n-number of theorems and economic theories, but we really don't know how our own civic agencies work.
Amen to that! We didn't learn how to file IT returns or apply for a loan, but thank god we can calculate the area under a curve!

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This is just like the police collecting good evidence to trap a thief who insists that he has not done any crime.
This is nothing like a criminal offense.

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Last week around 250 techies saw their vehicles impounded and taken to the local BMTC bus depot. The RTO used the fact that they were caught coming out of an IT Tech.
Now this I understand, though I don't agree completely. There is a higher probability that these working guys are using an out of state car without paying road tax. But, what if a chap is in fact commuting daily from say, Hosur? Proof of employment and proof of local residence isn't proof enough that you have been using your vehicle here since the start of employment.


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If I were to believe that RTO is all wrong, why not even a single case been filed by these tax defaulters? Folks are paying nearly 50,000 to a lakh as tax+fine. With half of that they can get an average lawyer to challenge the RTO.
I'm not saying RTO is all wrong, I'm merely pointing out that in their zest they can catch innocent travellers as well. Being IT guys, they might calculate that they can either pay 50k as LTT or spend the same amount and a lot of time running around court houses. Justice isn't free after all.

Quote:
That is impractical as we don't have check posts which track inter-state movements, especially of private vehicles. Karnataka RTO cannot wait for donkey's years for such a system to be implemented.
All it takes is a camera and a data cruncher to store the registration nos. of vehicles entering or leaving the State. If any vehicle hasn't left in the stipulated time frame, it can be slapped with a very heavy fine and made to pay LTT.

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The authority of courts v/s that of a Parliament is a complex and confusing subject. There are also certain privileges held by a State Legislative Assemblies, which are OUT of court's perview as well.
You sure? KA for certain would close the gates of KRS and tell TN and the Supreme Court where they could go if that were true.

We can argue all we want, but in the end it is us who will suffer the consequences. Imagine if Leh/Goa suddenly decided to make visitors pay LTT for staying more than 3 days.

PS: I'm cribbing only about the very short period of 1 month. I'm from BLR. I believe long term vehicle users should pay the tax here. But since I'm also an avid traveller, I don't want to feel unwelcome in any of the wonderful states of India.
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Old 25th July 2014, 16:38   #968
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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Originally Posted by asdon View Post
And why not?
Asdon.

I cannot answer this question You need to ask yourself or you need to be from a defense background.


I am from a defense background.These guys pay toll tax if they commute in their private vehicles.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bravo6 View Post
What's the power of cops in full khaki when it comes to traffic related activities? I ask because mostly cities have dedicated traffic cops. Rural areas only have regular cops. I've seen them stop and check vehicle documents as well. A classic example is Nandi Hills on weekends. Last time I made the mistake of going there on a weekend, I saw that regular cops were stopping every single vehicle and checking documents.
This is just to make quick bucks.I have been a witness to this many times.

Waseem.
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Old 25th July 2014, 16:38   #969
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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Originally Posted by binand View Post
One reason I can think of is that unlike other government departments, defense forces have no independent sources of revenue. So every rupee they spend is already generated by taxing something. There is no point in taxing a tax, so to speak - it does not add to the government's total tax revenue. So make it all tax-free and save on the paperwork cost at least.
I must say this is a poor logic. Wherever one unit is deployed, the state govt has to share a part of it budget with Central Govt. Similar for para-military deployment as well as for CISF units(for CISF the industry unit pays, for CISF Quick Response Team deployed in Electronic City, ELCIA pay some crores to Central Govt).

And by your logic defence personnel should not have income tax as well as their salary come from tax only!!!
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Old 25th July 2014, 16:39   #970
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

there are plenty of laws, but the devil lies in the implementation. So if the laws are not implemented with a fair spirit then there is no point in tom-tomming about the sanctity and omnipresence of laws.

Who are we kidding here ?
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Old 25th July 2014, 16:41   #971
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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Originally Posted by asdon View Post
And why not?

Anyways they are getting huge benefit by not paying toll tax on major highways, they get huge discount while buying the vehicle, many taxes like vat & service taxes +Edu tax are waived off, then why can't they pay road tax?
Do they get these benefits after they retire? As majority of them retire before 40. And if they get the benefits only during service years, I believe tax relief is justified.
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Old 25th July 2014, 16:45   #972
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

Quote:
Originally Posted by binand
One reason I can think of is that unlike other government departments, defense forces have no independent sources of revenue.
Military Vehicles are exempted from toll taxes etc, because they are purchased using tax payer's money any way. But the private vehicles of the military personnel would have to pay the road tax. If I got it right, they pay tax once - when they buy the vehicle. When they move from one state to another, they don't have to pay the tax there. That is my understanding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bravo6
What's the power of cops in full khaki when it comes to traffic related activities? I ask because mostly cities have dedicated traffic cops. Rural areas only have regular cops.
Traffic Police is like a sub-unit of the regular state police. The recruitment, the initial trainings they undergo are all one and the same. These people can also be transferred between units (Traffic to Law and Order, Traffic to Crime Branch and vice versa). In cities which require special focus on traffic a separate sub-unit is chalked out. This unit still works under the same framework which the law and order police works. But being a specialised unit the officers would focus more on Motor Vehicle related rules and laws. For easy recognition and their own safety Traffic Police would have a distinct uniform. In rural areas where such sub-units are not feasible regular police men also manage the traffic and also book charges for MV Act related offences as well. An example would be Kerala, where towns have Traffic units the Traffic management and enforcement is done exclusively done by them. In other areas Law and Order SIs also monitor the roads and charges MV Petty cases. The state's Highway Police squads are also staffed by Law & Order police men only. In cities generally special directives are given to bring in more control (and to reduce harassment). In Bangalore only Traffic ASIs (one star & ribbon) and above are allowed to book charges and collect fines. There are ASIs in L&O, but they are to focus on law and order.

Quote:
All it takes is a camera and a data cruncher to store the registration nos. of vehicles entering or leaving the State. If any vehicle hasn't left in the stipulated time frame, it can be slapped with a very heavy fine and made to pay LTT.
Very tough to implement (though 10 year down the line it may be possible). Say I bring in my KL vehicle through Attibele checkpost. The number is noted down. And now I use say the TVS check post (a small one) to make my exit. How can I be trapped? So for such a scheme to work, every single entry/exit point in a state should have access controlled gates. And the data from all these points to be shared on a regular basis. Plus you need enforcement squads placed at these gates as well. This would be pretty close to the Sales Tax and RTO check posts which is now there for commercial vehicles.

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KA for certain would close the gates of KRS and tell TN and the Supreme Court where they could go if that were true.
There is some thing known as Central List, State List and Concurrent List. These lists have the topics/issues/laws which each group can work upon. Central List would have all issues in which Central Govt. is the decision maker. State list has items in which State is the boss. And Concurrent List has those areas where Centre and State has rights. Add to it various other rules and provisions when it comes to disputes between states (over water or natural resources). Water disputes cannot be treated at par with issues like state's right to levy road tax.

Quote:
Imagine if Leh/Goa suddenly decided to make visitors pay LTT for staying more than 3 days.
They really can do that. Infact if more states do these things, more people would get upset and cases would get filed. Right now only KA does it and the impact is felt mostly on the IT crowd of Bangalore.
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Old 25th July 2014, 16:46   #973
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SILVERWOOD View Post
These guys pay toll tax if they commute in their private vehicles.

Waseem.
Well.. you may disagree but all of us have seen private vehicles of defence personnel having stickers "ARMY"/"NAVY"/"AIRFORCE" and seen them flashing ID cards at toll plazas, and for sure those vehicles were purchased through Canteens and for personal use.

In my post I don't want to show any disrespect to the Force but many of them take undue advantages during civilian postings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBR_SHR View Post
Do they get these benefits after they retire? As majority of them retire before 40. And if they get the benefits only during service years, I believe tax relief is justified.
I did not want to reveal the facts, but let me..

One of the RTO in Bangalore stays in the same floor in my apartment, and his brother a Retd. Captain who participated in Kargil war also stays on the same floor, and the fourth flat is empty..

Many of my discussion here goes to RTOs ear during our night walks, and I have seen his brother and his friends from defence getting the toll exhemption all the time and all of them are retired from services and working for big time corporates..

To your post, they get the benefits well after retirments, the rationed food items, discounted cars from canteen are to list a few.

Last edited by Rudra Sen : 27th July 2014 at 06:58.
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Old 25th July 2014, 17:01   #974
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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Originally Posted by asdon View Post
I did not want to reveal the facts, but let me..

One of the RTO in Bangalore stays in the same floor in my apartment, and his brother a Retd. Captain who participated in Kargil war also stays on the same floor, and the fourth flat is empty..

Many of my discussion here goes to RTOs ear during our night walks, and I have seen his brother and his friends from defence getting the toll exhemption all the time and all of them are retired from services and working for big time corporates..

To your post, they get the benefits well after retirments, the rationed food items, discounted cars from canteen are to list a few.
Thanks for the details. But I guess majority of the forces are not officers or JCOs and surely a 10th or 12th pass cannot work in big corporates. So for those ex-jawans and NCOs any relief in form of subsidy, discount or waiver should be encouraged in my opinion.
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Old 25th July 2014, 17:10   #975
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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Originally Posted by BBR_SHR View Post
Thanks for the details. But I guess majority of the forces are not officers or JCOs and surely a 10th or 12th pass cannot work in big corporates. So for those ex-jawans and NCOs any relief in form of subsidy, discount or waiver should be encouraged in my opinion.
Totally in agreement with you, but how do you draw the line?
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