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Old 25th July 2014, 21:15   #991
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

I have no sympathy for those working and staying in BLR with non-KA cars. The rule of 11 months was reasonable enough but abused by a significant number of people staying buying cars in their hometowns, even if they visit them only twice a year.

Pay your tax to the state where you earn your income. If you don't like it, file a PIL and change the law. Don't flout it. For those caught unnecessarily like blackpearl, I am truly sorry. Hope you can convince them.

Note: I am not a Kannadiga.
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Old 26th July 2014, 01:07   #992
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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Originally Posted by dass View Post
RTO and traffic police are two different departments. AFAIK, both have independent rules, where one doesn't overlap the other. Looks like there is some confusion in the most recent posts about who needs to follow what.
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Originally Posted by asdon View Post
You are mixing RTO and traffic police, they are different dept, RTOs can surely stop you and ask for vehicle papers, they may not be asking for a DL, but RC & Insurance(to check ownership/ not insurance validity), and not always RTO want to stop out of state vehicles, they may do it for in state vehicles too.
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Originally Posted by bravo6 View Post
RTO can stop you. BTP (traffic cops) can't officially till they see you break some rule. But he can come up with bogus charges that you can't really prove otherwise.
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Originally Posted by sachinpk View Post
It will not be the RTO who would be doing that. But the Income Tax Department. And Income Tax Department really does that. I hope you would have heard of Income tax raids happening. They generally land up at the premises when people least expect them . Income Tax Dept. how ever is a Central Govt. department.
Baba, I don't care if its the RTO, PTO, RAW, ISI or anyone for that matter. Until they have proof that 'I have come to Bangalore' and stayed for more than the stipulated time, they "CANNOT' stop me and make me prove anything for the simple reason that the onus is on them to prove my guilt rather than on me to prove my innocence. Innocent until proven guilty, works in the court of law and works anywhere and everywhere in the civilized world.

Secondly, if number of crimes was the reason for people to re register their car in Bangalore, how come cops don't bother you at all after you have paid the tax ? No re register nonsense at all Why ? Because all they are after is DOUGH and only Dough and they want to get it out from whomsoever they can, Steal, threaten or whatever that is they do, they want Gandhi Bapu's that's all

And lastly, the only people supporting this nonsense by saying 'Ah law is law you have to follow if you come to our state', 'Ah they are doing the right thing by catching people' etc etc etc should understand that 'One month' is a pretty short time for someone who has shifted to pay 'SUCH A HUGE SUM'. You guys might be Lord Falkland's, not all of us are. This is where the regionalism card comes in the picture as this clearly sounds like 'THIS IS MY STATE' like 'THIS IS SPARTA' kinds.

As a citizen of a democratic country, I WILL NOT STAND and let myself be harassed by anyone by citing some new born and bred laws which have come out from the thirst of looting citizens.

Don't you see how threatening all this feels even to a traveler who might come for a week or two ? So many people on this thread asking if 'Its safe to bring my car to Bangalore for a holiday, for a trip bla bla' ?
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Old 26th July 2014, 01:40   #993
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

For all the high taxation that Karnataka and Maharashtra have, doesn't quite translate to better facilities for citizens. Bangaloreans often mention the terrible roads despite the high road tax - so where is the 'road' tax money going ? The fine point that the government isn't just there to tax us left, right and centre whenever it feels it is running out of money - it has to provide the citizens with some benefit - taxes are not a "hafta" , they are a fee for services provided.

As for the argument of "you're staying in this state, pay the taxes in this state" - how many of those supporting this drive, have never fudged their IT exemtion - house rent being a favourite to avoid paying tax ? What about bills (VAT) on purchases ?
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Old 26th July 2014, 08:11   #994
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

Quote:
Originally Posted by itwasntme View Post
I have no sympathy for those working and staying in BLR with non-KA cars. The rule of 11 months was reasonable enough but abused by a significant number of people staying buying cars in their hometowns, even if they visit them only twice a year.

Pay your tax to the state where you earn your income. If you don't like it, file a PIL and change the law. Don't flout it. For those caught unnecessarily like blackpearl, I am truly sorry. Hope you can convince them.

Note: I am not a Kannadiga.
Sir, this state has the worst of the roads I have driven in South of India and has the highest taxes. We already pay taxes. If you make a city really hostile for outsiders, the outsiders will not be happy. I am pleased by the fact that I could relocate out of Bangalore, I am sure there are several others. I drove a 5 year old spark (KL registered) and a 2 years Chevy (KA registered 2 year old). We do pay a lot mate, it is not fair to victimize people in our country.
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Old 26th July 2014, 08:20   #995
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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Originally Posted by humyum View Post
Baba, I don't care if its the RTO, PTO, RAW, ISI or anyone for that matter. Until they have proof that 'I have come to Bangalore' and stayed for more than the stipulated time, they "CANNOT' stop me and make me prove anything for the simple reason that the onus is on them to prove my guilt rather than on me to prove my innocence. Innocent until proven guilty, works in the court of law and works anywhere and everywhere in the civilized world.
All these have been discussed earlier, but I'd repeat. There is a stage between innocent and guilty called "suspect". A suspect can be innocent, but does forgo some rights that the innocent enjoys. A suspect can be detained, questioned, and in the hands of local police gets third degree treatment. In some cases, a suspect could be held in captivity without bail. So things are not as black and white as you suggest.
Quote:
And lastly, the only people supporting this nonsense by saying 'Ah law is law you have to follow if you come to our state', 'Ah they are doing the right thing by catching people' etc etc etc should understand that 'One month' is a pretty short time for someone who has shifted to pay 'SUCH A HUGE SUM'. You guys might be Lord Falkland's, not all of us are. This is where the regionalism card comes in the picture as this clearly sounds like 'THIS IS MY STATE' like 'THIS IS SPARTA' kinds.
None of us are Kannadigas. Don't bring the regionalism card here. That's too cheap.

It used to be 12 months earlier. People misused it, traveled back once or twice a year, collected receipts and continued claiming that they are here for only a few months. It becomes difficult to cheat when it is 30 days. Unfair for some, but works well against the crooks.
Quote:
As a citizen of a democratic country, I WILL NOT STAND and let myself be harassed by anyone by citing some new born and bred laws which have come out from the thirst of looting citizens.
Rhetoric works in election campaigns, but they are as empty as they can get. Actually, there is nothing you can do.
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Old 26th July 2014, 09:54   #996
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

And again I ask - has anyone filed a PIL? Or has any lawyer on the forum been asked for his suggestion?
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Old 26th July 2014, 09:55   #997
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

Quote:
Originally Posted by blacksport View Post
All these have been discussed earlier, but I'd repeat. There is a stage between innocent and guilty called "suspect". A suspect can be innocent, but does forgo some rights that the innocent enjoys. A suspect can be detained, questioned, and in the hands of local police gets third degree treatment. In some cases, a suspect could be held in captivity without bail. So things are not as black and white as you suggest.
Well, it is not quite draconian as that, but you are right. Where you go wrong is that just because a few persons among a group is suspected, the cops/authority figures cannot round up every one of that group and then treat them all as suspects. That is gross violation of various rights and liberties and heads have rolled for such activities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blacksport View Post
It used to be 12 months earlier. People misused it, traveled back once or twice a year, collected receipts and continued claiming that they are here for only a few months. It becomes difficult to cheat when it is 30 days. Unfair for some, but works well against the crooks.
This is not cheating. The RTO themselves created this loophole, by accepting toll receipts as authoritative proof of first entry into the state.

If they wanted to do their job properly, they could have approached this in many other ways. For example, they could have given instructions to apartment societies and corporates to maintain list of vehicles with outstation registrations and dates of first entry within their premises (which most do already, to issue parking stickers). The moment 1 year passes, do a quick check of the tax database to see if these owners have paid tax or not. Then, send show-cause and tax demand notices to only those folks who are in violation of the state rule.

This way, tax revenue is generated, nobody innocent is inconvenienced and defaulters have no loopholes to escape through. But it requires doing actual work instead of bullying road users. So much better to block of roads, terrorize everyone who passes through and put people through inconveniences simply because they dared to buy a vehicle outside of KA.

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Originally Posted by blacksport View Post
Rhetoric works in election campaigns, but they are as empty as they can get. Actually, there is nothing you can do.
Which is a pity. Our essential liberties are being trampled upon, and there is nothing we can do. Executive is complicit, legislature simply doesn't care and judiciary is so expensive that we can't afford to approach it.
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Old 26th July 2014, 10:06   #998
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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Originally Posted by humyum View Post
Baba, I don't care if its the RTO, PTO, RAW, ISI or anyone for that matter.
Mate, you are quoting text out of context. Please read the posts you quoted carefully; they were discussing who had the power to stop a vehicle, nothing specific to this topic.

Quote:
You guys might be Lord Falkland's, not all of us are. This is where the regionalism card comes in the picture as this clearly sounds like 'THIS IS MY STATE' like 'THIS IS SPARTA' kinds.
What you need to understand is that there are all kinds of people in a population this large. Some honestly pay road tax, some don't. Some learn the local language, others demand the localites to learn Hindi or whatever.

While some agree with you that one month is a very short time, they also agree that those staying from a long time should also be made to pay road tax. Please involve regionalism in this. If anything, KA folks are one of the most accomodating ones around. When was the last time a Kannadiga came to your state and demand that you learn Kannada? Do you see my point? Please refrain from commenting along such lines.

Last edited by benbsb29 : 28th July 2014 at 05:46. Reason: Quoted post has already been deleted, so removed quote and subsequent discussion.
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Old 26th July 2014, 10:15   #999
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

MOD NOTE:

Guys, please keep the discussion on this thread limited to RTO rule only. Any post on regional/political stuff will be deleted.

A request: Please report any post that you find is deviating from the topic at hand.

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Old 26th July 2014, 10:22   #1000
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

Quote:
Originally Posted by blacksport View Post
All these have been discussed earlier, but I'd repeat. There is a stage between innocent and guilty called "suspect". A suspect can be innocent, but does forgo some rights that the innocent enjoys. A suspect can be detained, questioned, and in the hands of local police gets third degree treatment. In some cases, a suspect could be held in captivity without bail. So things are not as black and white as you suggest.
Well I cannot be a suspect unless they have some basis for that. MH number plate basis is not enough to be a suspect, its like saying you belong to a certain religion, so you are always the suspect. The entire world protests again that as WITHOUT proof its just racial profiling and in this case its just 'Money making scheme'.

Prove you just came here before some days, NO U HAVE TO PAY ROAD TAX. Actually they should get the proof for me being guilty, NOT ME get the proof first for my innocence, suspect has to 'not prove himself' innocent.


Quote:
Originally Posted by blacksport View Post
It used to be 12 months earlier. People misused it, traveled back once or twice a year, collected receipts and continued claiming that they are here for only a few months. It becomes difficult to cheat when it is 30 days. Unfair for some, but works well against the crooks.
Get a system to counter that, not bring out a system which is stupid in the first place. That's like 'Someone got raped in the car with tints', so government banned tints', Very convenient, instead of making laws harsher, police less corrupt and patrolling more stringent, they came up with something which was very simple for them.

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Originally Posted by blacksport View Post
Rhetoric works in election campaigns, but they are as empty as they can get. Actually, there is nothing you can do.
Well, that's what you think, An educated mind can work in any direction

Last edited by khan_sultan : 26th July 2014 at 10:30. Reason: Cleanup. No more regionalism/political posts please
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Old 26th July 2014, 10:28   #1001
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

I came across a newspaper article few days ago that the RTO folks are saying they know of people living in Karnataka and getting their new vehicles registered in Pondicherry and other states/union territories to save on Road Tax and these are the owners they are targeting in their drive.
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Old 26th July 2014, 12:30   #1002
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

Worst is the way they calculate depreciation. My 6 yr old car has 64% tax, i.e. depreciation of 36%. But actual depreciation as per insurance and market is much higher.

Anyway, I am proceeding with paying LTT of Rs 1.33L for my 6 yr old Civic. Went to KA51 RTO office (one in Vijayabank colony, some what behind IIM). Officer was polite enough and just asked invoice.

DD from any bank is fine. I specifically asked whether it is required to take DD from banks like SBI, and he said NO. I also verified with person sitting at the reception.
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Old 26th July 2014, 13:08   #1003
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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Well, it is not quite draconian as that, but you are right. Where you go wrong is that just because a few persons among a group is suspected, the cops/authority figures cannot round up every one of that group and then treat them all as suspects. That is gross violation of various rights and liberties and heads have rolled for such activities.
It is unfair, but that is how the system works. In law enforcement, people do get troubled. If they could invent a device which they can point at any car, and automatically find out a violator, they would. Currently, there is no other way they could find a violator from scores of others, other than roadside checks.
Quote:
This is not cheating. The RTO themselves created this loophole, by accepting toll receipts as authoritative proof of first entry into the state.
There is no rule that that toll receipts are authoritative proof. They look for clues, the toll receipts are one of which you can use in your defense. If you have a valid address in Bangalore, you are a resident, irrespective of whether you have a toll receipt with you or not.
Quote:
If they wanted to do their job properly, they could have approached this in many other ways. For example, they could have given instructions to apartment societies and corporates to maintain list of vehicles with outstation registrations and dates of first entry within their premises (which most do already, to issue parking stickers). The moment 1 year passes, do a quick check of the tax database to see if these owners have paid tax or not. Then, send show-cause and tax demand notices to only those folks who are in violation of the state rule.
Would never work.

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Originally Posted by humyum View Post
Well I cannot be a suspect unless they have some basis for that. MH number plate basis is not enough to be a suspect, its like saying you belong to a certain religion, so you are always the suspect. The entire world protests again that as WITHOUT proof its just racial profiling and in this case its just 'Money making scheme'.
You become a suspect only if they find clues in your car that you are a violator. Like company stickers, fuel bills, etc. You do not automatically become a suspect when they stop you to check the car. They have the authority to do that. Police stop cars at night to check for DUI, do you feel that some fundamental right has been violated?
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Prove you just came here before some days, NO U HAVE TO PAY ROAD TAX. Actually they should get the proof for me being guilty, NOT ME get the proof first for my innocence, suspect has to 'not prove himself' innocent.
That's hearsay, they ask you to pay only if they have a reasonable point to believe that you are evading tax.
Quote:
Get a system to counter that, not bring out a system which is stupid in the first place. That's like 'Someone got raped in the car with tints', so government banned tints', Very convenient, instead of making laws harsher, police less corrupt and patrolling more stringent, they came up with something which was very simple for them.
I support banning of tinted windows. You forgo some liberty for safety. That's how the world works. Even in the most developed of nations.
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Well, that's what you think, An educated mind can work in any direction
Actions speak louder than rhetoric.
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Worst is the way they calculate depreciation. My 6 yr old car has 64% tax, i.e. depreciation of 36%. But actual depreciation as per insurance and market is much higher.
Tax is not calculated on the depreciated price, but on the original price, pro-rated based on the age of the vehicle.
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Old 26th July 2014, 13:57   #1004
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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I came across a newspaper article few days ago that the RTO folks are saying they know of people living in Karnataka and getting their new vehicles registered in Pondicherry and other states/union territories to save on Road Tax and these are the owners they are targeting in their drive.
can you do that? You need to submit a proof of residence in that state. Where will you bring one from if you do not reside in that state? RTO folks will say anything to continue their loot.

Bangalore has the highest tax rates and worst infrastructure. I don't know what these IT companies see in this city. And they are flocking enmasse. As I am typing this probably half a dozen new companies are opening their offices there. Serves them right. Are they blind? Can't they move to other cities instead of subjecting their employees to 2 hour traffic jams and 15 kmph average speeds and potholed roads with huuuuge speadbreakers? This city is bursting at seems. Delhi / Mumbai are far better managed.
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Old 26th July 2014, 14:09   #1005
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Default Re: Beware 'Out of State' cars: RTO (Bangalore) taxation amendment from 28th Feb, 201

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can you do that? You need to submit a proof of residence in that state. Where will you bring one from if you do not reside in that state? RTO folks will say anything to continue their loot.

Bangalore has the highest tax rates and worst infrastructure. I don't know what these IT companies see in this city. And they are flocking enmasse. As I am typing this probably half a dozen new companies are opening their offices there. Serves them right. Are they blind? Can't they move to other cities instead of subjecting their employees to 2 hour traffic jams and 15 kmph average speeds and potholed roads with huuuuge speadbreakers? This city is bursting at seems. Delhi / Mumbai are far better managed.
Regarding your first point, didn't you know you can prove anything, create any document in this country for some money. There are agents who do that and dealerships can provide access to all these unlawful means. Surprising question ! Did you just move into this country?
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