Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 14th April 2015, 21:42   #1276
BHPian
 
karts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Chennai
Posts: 97
Thanked: 76 Times
Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

Guys,

Just a generic question. How much time does the RTO provide to pay the LTT? What if a person gets caught and the person does not have that much of a money readily available, with the LTT in many cases going up to a lac? As a salaried person myself, the monthly income vanishes in the first week itself with the different emis and other monthly expenses and anything left is just about to manage the rest of the month and would certainly require some time/days to get the LTT money arranged.
karts is offline  
Old 14th April 2015, 22:48   #1277
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,967
Thanked: 1,426 Times
Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarrySky View Post
So you don't want to pay your new state anything to use their infrastructure just because you paid a lot of money to your old state knowing fully well while paying that what you pay is not valid outside the state. Your argument does not make sense to me.
Why? When I purchase anything, I purchase it with the expectation that I am allowed to use it anywhere in India as I please.

Please tell me ONE other item, for using which outside of the state of purchase I have to pay a tax to the new state (as an individual; I am not conversant enough with the laws governing institutional purchases)?

Taxing any good or service twice is unconstitutional and against the basic principles of natural justice. This is also possibly the reason the judge commented that the KA amendment is ultra vires.

Anyway, I believe this thread is approaching the locking threshold yet again; so in case you want to follow up please do so on PM.
binand is offline   (5) Thanks
Old 14th April 2015, 22:55   #1278
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 910
Thanked: 297 Times
Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

@binand: you just opened up a hornet's nest. Please don't air such thoughts here and give further ideas to our babus. We will then be paying octroi and excise on everything. Buy a burger in hosur, cross the state border and pay tax for it. Calculate the fuel left in your tank and pay tax for that when entering the state. Or maybe you'll be given 5 mins to finish it.
@karts: that was the reason I asked about the loan for paying taxes. An enterprising person can start loaning the amount and tort with the RTO and make a good sum.
wildsdi5530 is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 14th April 2015, 23:19   #1279
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Chetan_Rao's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,927
Thanked: 3,442 Times
Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

I would just reiterate my earlier stated opinion:

Why not just charge usage-based tax? Simplest way to do that would be have a smaller window (annual/biannual) and make the payment process online. For the current generation's employment scenario, it's ridiculous to make someone (re)pay tax for 15 years (pro-rated) when the MAJORITY won't stay in one place that long. They already do it for govt. employees in some form, so no excuse to say the system doesn't exist or can't be implemented.

I understand and agree that the state has rights, but what about the consumer's rights? What about my constitutional right to move freely across the length & breadth of the nation as a citizen? Why subject it to caveats, making me pay over and over again for the 'privilege' to use non-existent infrastructure? And what about returning my money (pro-rated) once I'm no longer using the infrastructure that you charged me a bomb for?

When the RTO is pro-active enough to go around seizing vehicles and documentation when it comes to 'earning' revenue, why the endless lethargy in 'returning' my rightful dues even after submitting all necessary (and unnecessary) documentation under the sun? My refund claim from my previous state is pending for nearly FOUR years now and I don't really expect that money, ever.

Why is the obligation to be law-abiding only the citizen's burden in this country?

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 14th April 2015 at 23:22.
Chetan_Rao is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 15th April 2015, 00:15   #1280
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Pune
Posts: 597
Thanked: 634 Times
Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

Quote:
Originally Posted by pramodpk View Post
What was the outcome? How did you manage to convince them? What were their arguments for not accepting your proofs?
Told them to cease the papers, and issue a receipt for the same, and that I was not signing any where or taking my luggage out if they want to impound the car.
I also told them that I would file a harassment case in my home town Pune on my return and they will waist their time visiting the court there.
Finally after about 20 min of talking a more senior officer came over and let me off with nominal bribe.

Rahul
Rahul Rao is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 15th April 2015, 01:14   #1281
Senior - BHPian
 
humyum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Leicester/Mumbai
Posts: 2,306
Thanked: 2,188 Times
Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

Quote:
Originally Posted by binand View Post
I am. I don't like the idea of paying LTT in every state I live in - if that were the case, by now I'd have paid about 50% of my car cost in taxes alone. As far as I'm concerned once I've paid a tax it is done with - it is called "lifetime tax" for a reason, one presumes.
I agree, I don't like the idea of paying road tax from state to state too, these goons are behaving like they have a mini country inside this whole entity called India where in they can behave like warlords.

If they want road tax in their state, they should collect it from the state which the car has initially paid the amount and whatever little is left if any, I will pay because when they collect road tax, they want it at the speed of light, when we want to refund, its a slow, tedious process.

Have a centralized system or collect tax from the state the vehicle has paid road tax in or simply forget about collecting road tax from outside vehicles. Harassing people is simply nonsense.

About people talking about 'using infrastructure' of the city/state bla bla, Yeah, its my country, I will use its infrastructure, I don't pay income tax, this tax, that tax in Maharashtra only for the development of MH, its for the entire country so I have every right to roam around wherever I want in it. I don't understand and I don't want to understand too the laws which are not for the common public but just for filling up coffers. Period.

Last edited by humyum : 15th April 2015 at 01:18.
humyum is offline  
Old 15th April 2015, 02:02   #1282
BHPian
 
Driving_Nomad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 169
Thanked: 79 Times
Default Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

At the risk of being pounced over, I would like to say, laws are laws, period. The lifetime road tax law in Karnataka is the same for me (born and brought up here) or for a person who has migrated for work/business/livelihood/or anything else. Not abiding by the law of the land is an offense and is punishable in the court of law. The law is made by representatives elected by us and having elected them all we can do is appeal in court (which someone has already done). When the court has vacated a stay on a law, the authorities are empowered to bring the defaulters to books. To follow a law and pay the LTT or to sell the car in the state it has been registered or to risk and be an offender is a personal choice.

Why on earth would KA RTO be interested in getting the road tax from the state where one would already have paid? They aren't paid to do that. I understand refunds are a pain and one will have to do a couple trips to the RTO. But then, when one would have the time to shift base from one state to another, I guess two trips to a government office isn't much of an ask. I know it would have been great to have RTOs of states handshake with each other, but we are living in a developing country and we'll have to be patient.

Sample this. If one hasn't received an IT Refund for, say 2010-11, would he/she be allowed to adjust that in the subsequent years' TDS? Or if one has evaded IT in a year, would the IT dept deduct more TDS the next year?

Sachin, thanks for persevering what is right (according to law( against all odds.

Others please don't take me wrong, I know this is unfair (1 month that is), but isn't it also unfair that people of this state (I mean born and living here and who don't want to break the law by registering in PY and driving here) pay almost double what people of other states pay. Are they complaining? Yes they are, but are they breaking the law? I can safely say 95% aren't.

We all know KA's road tax has gone over the roof. But until either the central govt enforces or KA changes by itself, we all know it isn't going southwards.

And using the term goons, there's a video where a lady sitting in a parked mon KA car tries to run over a cop who's standing in front of it to ensure she doesn't escape, while another police officer is asking her for the documents. The video is right there on the web, the police didn't harass her. Now, people again can choose whom to term goons. Whatever they choose, I pity that lady's next few years.

Last edited by Driving_Nomad : 15th April 2015 at 02:09.
Driving_Nomad is offline   (4) Thanks
Old 15th April 2015, 09:56   #1283
Senior - BHPian
 
humyum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Leicester/Mumbai
Posts: 2,306
Thanked: 2,188 Times
Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

Quote:
Originally Posted by Driving_Nomad View Post
At the risk of being pounced over, I would like to say, laws are laws, period. The lifetime road tax law in Karnataka is the same for me (born and brought up here) or for a person who has migrated for work/business/livelihood/or anything else. Not abiding by the law of the land is an offense and is punishable in the court of law. The law is made by representatives elected by us and having elected them all we can do is appeal in court (which someone has already done). When the court has vacated a stay on a law, the authorities are empowered to bring the defaulters to books. To follow a law and pay the LTT or to sell the car in the state it has been registered or to risk and be an offender is a personal choice.
So were the RTO guys abiding by the law when they were harassing people who could even prove they had come here only for some days? Were they abiding by the law when even after the court's stay the RTO guys were still asking for NOC's and road tax receipts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Driving_Nomad View Post
Why on earth would KA RTO be interested in getting the road tax from the state where one would already have paid? They aren't paid to do that. I understand refunds are a pain and one will have to do a couple trips to the RTO. But then, when one would have the time to shift base from one state to another, I guess two trips to a government office isn't much of an ask. I know it would have been great to have RTOs of states handshake with each other, but we are living in a developing country and we'll have to be patient.
Because they are both government institutions working in the country of India which has a central and state government and they all work in conjunction. And secondly, two trips to a government office would include a thousand kilometer one way trip from Bangalore to Mumbai in my case to run after the babus to Mumbai from Bangalore to get a refund of my MH road tax. So that my friend that is much of a task. The KA RTO is very fast in accepting a road tax draft but refunding something takes months. Shows a lot about their 'motives'.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Driving_Nomad View Post
Others please don't take me wrong, I know this is unfair (1 month that is), but isn't it also unfair that people of this state (I mean born and living here and who don't want to break the law by registering in PY and driving here) pay almost double what people of other states pay. Are they complaining? Yes they are, but are they breaking the law? I can safely say 95% aren't.
PY is not equal to any other state. When you catch hold of PY cars it can be a case of 'saving on road tax' but when you catch hold of a MH car, the taxes are more or less similar and hence there is no question of buying a car in MH for tax evasion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Driving_Nomad View Post
And using the term goons, there's a video where a lady sitting in a parked mon KA car tries to run over a cop who's standing in front of it to ensure she doesn't escape, while another police officer is asking her for the documents. The video is right there on the web, the police didn't harass her. Now, people again can choose whom to term goons. Whatever they choose, I pity that lady's next few years.
There are so many video's and stories of these guys threatening and abusing people for what not including road tax. So please, let's leave it at that.

'Run over' is too big a word to use for that video. Its like someone nudging someone and you say 'attempt to murder'.
humyum is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 15th April 2015, 09:57   #1284
BHPian
 
sumathindra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 605
Thanked: 191 Times
Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

Quote:
Originally Posted by Driving_Nomad View Post
At the risk of being pounced over, I would like to say, laws are laws, period.
Aptly put across Driving_Nomad.

I have a few points. To begin with, we are in a democracy which has not one but many hurdles. The governance needs to improve a lot and also a lot needs to be done. However when one takes the effort of relocating here, they would have already done their homework on this aspect as well. So what's the point in cribbing after arriving here and refusing to abide by the law. A few years back when by brother came back to KA after a long time in Delhi, I encouraged him to re register here which he did eventually by spending 35k on a car which was 7 years old.

The point is in today's world information is openly available and inspite of that I wonder why this comes as a "shock". Finally registering a car in PY or elsewhere to save on tax and driving on KA roads is certainly the right thing to do. I rest my case here.
sumathindra is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 15th April 2015, 11:22   #1285
BHPian
 
Altocumulus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: BLR / KOL
Posts: 605
Thanked: 546 Times
Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

Quote:
Originally Posted by Driving_Nomad View Post
At the risk of being pounced over, I would like to say, laws are laws, period. The lifetime road tax law in Karnataka is the same for me (born and brought up here) or for a person who has migrated for work/business/livelihood/or anything else. Not abiding by the law of the land is an offense and is punishable in the court of law. The law is made by representatives elected by us and having elected them all we can do is appeal in court (which someone has already done). When the court has vacated a stay on a law, the authorities are empowered to bring the defaulters to books. To follow a law and pay the LTT or to sell the car in the state it has been registered or to risk and be an offender is a personal choice.
For people who are from KA this will not be an issue anyways so no use comparing that with people who are coming from outside. I was in Mumbai for 5 years. Similarly I may shift to Bangalore for 5 years. Why will I pay tax for 15 years. The other option you are saying is to sell the car here in Kolkata. Why will I sell a car which is 1 year old and take the depreciation hit. It boils down to the same things ultimately right ?

What I am saying is give an option for lesser years. Laws should be made for the people. It's my country, I can go anywhere I want. You can't penalize me for doing that.
Altocumulus is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 15th April 2015, 12:17   #1286
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,143
Thanked: 684 Times
Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

Quote:
Originally Posted by ::CMS::
Dont want to comment on court, but its a political drama. The judge who stayed the BS was immediately transferred and the stay is vacated by the new Judge, why and how, better judge yourself.
A high court judge does not get transferred like a Police Inspector gets transferred from one corner of the state to other in less than an hour. The process is much more complex, and it just cannot be taken by the State Govt. alone. Concurrence has to be taken from other bodies as well. DOJ.GOV.IN gives some idea on the process of transfer and appointment of High Court judges in a state. Article 222 of Indian Constitution clearly tells that the President of India, in consultation with the Chief Justice of India decides on the transfer of High Court judges from one state to another. Please note that President of India, and Chief Justice of India are top most authorities in their respective areas (executive & judiciary). So I am not convinced that the state government just decided to transfer the judge arbitrarily - it does not even have the powers to do so.

Quote:
As I had mentioned before, this is not at all a duty unless the states across India has a proper refunding process, it becomes double taxation, the same was quoted by the Andhra HC verdict.
I hope this advice does not give ideas to others. If each individual decides which tax he would pay or not, sooner or later that individual would land in trouble. May be internet forums all this allowed, where each person decides what all some one does before he coughs up money. Reality is a bit different.

Quote:
States cannot remote themselves saying we are not concerned about the refund process of other states, same for KA also, KA is still a state in India.
I am sorry, but these are all wishful thinking at the moment. Onus on paying the tax, and collecting the tax refunds depend on the individual. Sure, we can try changing that, but boycotting tax payements until then, I don't see it being very practical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Altocumulus
My question to you is why is it that one has to pay LTT in the first place. Thats the main reason people are not comfortable paying the tax.
Tough question my friend, and I don't have an answer. But Life Time Tax collection is the norm pretty much in every state in India. I remember during early 1980s even private vehicles used to have some thing known as a "Tax Disc", which showed the tax paid receipt for that year. But looks like states all across India, felt that collecting road tax every year is a tedious process and decided to go for LTT. One way, perhaps would be to introduce this system again, with hefty fines (and seizure of vehicles) in case the "Tax Disk" is not showing a valid tax paid receipt. So we need to see why yearly tax was changed to LTT (by all states), and why we should go back now. And how a fool proof system can be brought in to ensure that each vehicle owner pays up the tax on time.

Quote:
When the KA government is aware that there are short term immigrants coming into the city they should introduce 1/2/3/5 year options
The law before the amendment was that a vehicle could run in the state for 12 months before LTT has to be paid. Now how will KA government prove that the vehicle was in continuous use in KA, so that the owner can be asked to pay the 1/2/3/5 year worth of tax? I have seen Indian society (which includes me as well) for 35 odd years, people would come with good excuses to prove that they have just landed a week before. KA government will not have any track of non-KA vehicles including the correct addresses of their owners. So now the law was amended to reduce the time frame to one month, which makes chances of making excuses a little less. To get toll receipts etc. non-KA vehicle owners would have to cross state borders pretty much every month, which is impractical for many .

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarrySky
Kerala govt has followed in the footsteps of KA govt, but at the moment, the policy is far more reasonable - pay about Rs.1500 for any 4-wheeler which stays in the state for more than 30 days and pay LTT after 1 year.
The policy has not been enacted as a law yet. I am also eagerly awaiting how Kerala RTO and the police would determine the period of stay . It is good to talk about various slabs, but the implementation is the key. Who would have to prove the duration of the stay? KL RTO or the vehicle owner. Let us wait and see. Being a cynical individual, I expect lots of whine to start when this rule gets implemented (mostly from Malayalis having KA registered vehicles, going to their native places in KL).

Quote:
Originally Posted by itwasntme
I have a query for the intra-company employee transfers into Bangalore. Don't such people get reimbursed for the LTT to be paid? I know my employer (non-IT) reimburses every paise but based on the RTO bill.
I don't think any IT company offers such a facility, but others can certainly correct all of us. IT employees gets jacked from both sides. Government agencies are least bit bothered about how a private company transfers their employee. Private companies would not break their heads over how government agencies treat their employees. In Bengaluru there are many IT head-honchos (who even used head companies) all talking about improving the life of people, good governance etc. Even they are all in radio silence when it comes to LTT, and can figure out that many people who get caught would be from their own IT companies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildsdi5530
Back to the topic, does any bank offer loan to pay off taxes. I'm sure not many of us have more than ₹1 Lakh disposable balance lying around in our accounts. If we could pay in monthly instalments of 5-10k, for 2 years, most people wouldn't mind.
When I purchased a new vehicle in KA, the bank's vehicle loan included the amount paid as tax as well. But there was around 10% downpayment (on the total loan) from my side as well. For other payments, I feel Personal Loan is the only option available. But interest rates are high.

Quote:
Originally Posted by binand
So is sales tax - but I didn't have tax department officials queuing up at my door when I moved from one state to another to collect tax on my fridge, TV, washing machine...
My understanding is that Motor Vehicle Tax is levied for a motor vehicle for using the state provided roads. Where as Sales Tax, is just a tax levied one time during a sale. The sale is done, the tax is paid on the spot and case closed. The owner can now do what ever he wishes with the item. Where as Motor Vehicle Tax is for the "using" of state provided infrastructure - i.e the roads.

Quote:
Why? When I purchase anything, I purchase it with the expectation that I am allowed to use it anywhere in India as I please.
The concept of taxation is different. A sales tax is paid when a sale happens (or you purchase some thing). A Motor Vehicle Tax is levied for the continuous use of the state provided road infrastructure. So the tax is paid to the state whose roads were used by the vehicle owner, by driving around. KA is not asking you to pay again a Sales Tax on a vehicle purchased in KL for this reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by karts
Just a generic question. How much time does the RTO provide to pay the LTT? What if a person gets caught and the person does not have that much of a money readily available, with the LTT in many cases going up to a lac?
From what I saw during the recent LTT collection drive, a near immediate payment is expected. The RTO collects all evidences (which they feel would prove their case - i.e prolonged stay), the vehicle owner also pretty much knows that his goose is cooked. Or he cannot figure out a way to prove he is a short time visitor. If original documents are available they get seized. But in majority of cases, the vehicle is impounded. The local BMTC depot was the dumping ground of such vehicles. The vehicle owner can then figure out the way to raise the money and pay it up. But till then the vehicle/documents stay with the RTO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by humyum
About people talking about 'using infrastructure' of the city/state bla bla, Yeah, its my country, I will use its infrastructure, I don't pay income tax, this tax, that tax in Maharashtra only for the development of MH, its for the entire country so I have every right to roam around wherever I want in it. I don't understand and I don't want to understand too the laws which are not for the common public but just for filling up coffers. Period.
I sympathise with you, my friend. Because with this attitude you would only sooner or later get the law enforcement machinery against you. There was a social activist (who mind you have undergone far more torture in a short time, what we may not have undergone in our life time). He did make a fantastic observation. That was it is the responsibility of every individual to know what are the laws which governs him. Only then he will know, what his rights and duties are, and what are the problems with the law. And any way "Ignornace of law is never an excuse". So tomorrow if the KA RTO catches you, you decide to take it to the courts and makes the same statement about "freedom of movement, this tax, that tax" etc. don't expect much from the magistrate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Driving_Nomad
And using the term goons, there's a video where a lady sitting in a parked mon KA car tries to run over a cop who's standing in front of it to ensure she doesn't escape, while another police officer is asking her for the documents
I did not even get into this. The kind of non-sense the Traffic Police (and RTO) has to tolerate on a day to day basis is mind boggling. And these are not from the so called illiterate people. I am talking about the better paid, more educated IT company folks. Most of them have no clue on any law, or legal provisions and tantrum throwing is the standard gimmick.

------------------
Any way as people feel that this thread may get locked up soon. Considering that a central level legislation on taxation would not come at least for some time, we have to assume that state's have the authority to collect road taxes. What I feel would be a better approach (for KA RTO to do) is:-
1. Make the LTT payment optional. So for a KA domicile person if he wishes to pay LTT he can do so. Sum paid as LTT for 15 years should be at least 10-20% lower than paying annual tax for 15 years on a year by year basis. Just like the concept for BMTC monthly pass. Upfront payment gets a discount.
2. Re-introduce "Entry Tax". Counters can be established at the state borders, with adequate staff placed in. The tax collected should enable the user to use the state's roads for one month from the time of entry. Again the tax amount should be HIGHER than the annual tax paid upfront. This would reduce the motivation of people to jump across the state every month and come back.
3. RTOs to collect road tax for shorter duration of 1/2/5 year period again with appropriate discounting mechanisms.

On steps #1,#2 & #3 there should not be any coercion for payments. Provide people with the facility to pay, but they can plan it out.

Now (for the fun part)!!!. Increase RTO mobile squads manifold (or give the police mobiles the same powers). Like what they have in Kerala; no vehicle should use a major road without spotting one Police or Highway mobile every 50-60kms. Any vehicle which gets caught and cannot show the tax paid receipt (for any duration, and valid as of date), the vehicle should be impounded immediately. A hefty tax (of say 5 year validity), with a hefty fine should be collected on the spot before the documents/vehicles is returned to the owner. The punishment when caught with out a tax receipt should be a good deterrent which would make people cringe. For repeat offenders, arrest them, make entry on their DL, or remand them to be produced before a magistrate; all can be tried out. The onus to prove that the tax is paid should be with the vehicle owner. Using KA roads is a privilege (after due payments) and not a right.

How practical would be the above? "Freedom of movement" also is given to a large extent, but state also is not losing its revenue.

Last edited by sachinpk : 15th April 2015 at 12:24.
sachinpk is offline   (5) Thanks
Old 15th April 2015, 13:07   #1287
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: bangalore
Posts: 161
Thanked: 71 Times
Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

The 1 month rule is unfair, and strange. (why 30 days? similar to a single entry visa?).

I know the Govt here is extra proactive when it comes vehicle and fuel taxes. Now if they could be equally aggressive in introducing a swift and easy refund system for tax paid based on number of years spent in KA, so that refunds are hassle free. Retrospectively, this would garner more tax collection than going for a forced drive like now.

On a lighter side, evading the RTO authorities in BLR has some best practices...

>Non KA vehicles with number plate written in Kannada. (Such vehicles have to be given a tax discount in the interest of promoting local language)
>Army/Press stickers prominently displayed (yet the owners are invariably non fauj- IT folks)
>Non existent front number plate (preempting a frontal catch and punish?)
>Vehicles running on Temp/For Regn plates for an eternity.
>Plate artistry... Ex. How HR is made to look like KA.
>Regimental Emblems stuck on the registration plate.
xotiq is offline  
Old 15th April 2015, 15:01   #1288
Senior - BHPian
 
KiloAlpha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Cubicle
Posts: 1,255
Thanked: 1,442 Times
Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

As with all things in life, there is white, black, and a million shades of grey in between. In the case of the issue being discussed here:

White
  1. I live and work in Karnataka. I buy a car here. I pay LTT. I never move out of the State.
  2. I permanently relocate from another State into Karnataka (new job, for instance). I pay Karnataka LTT and re-register my car.
  3. I am a tourist/visitor. I live, work, and am settled in another State. I stay with friends/relatives/hotel, and go back after a few days.

Black
  1. I live and work in Karnataka. I buy a car and register it in Pondy to evade tax.
  2. I permanently relocate from another State into Karnataka (new job, for instance). I don't pay Karnataka LTT, nor do I re-register my car.

Grey
  1. I live and am fully settled in Hosur/Hindupur and commute to E-City/Gauribidanur for work. I have bought a car and registered it in Hosur(TN-70)/Hindupur(AP-02) as it is my "home town".
  2. I am a retired person, and drive down to visit my daughter (who lives in Hubli) from my home town (Miraj) during summer holidays. I live with my daughter for 3 months, and then return to Miraj.
  3. I have been asked to supervise the construction & commissioning of a new extension to my factory (near Raichur). I normally live and work out of my company's HQ in Hyderabad. This assignment will last 6 months. I have to take my car for this assignment because this project site is in an industrial layout that has little/no connectivity.
  4. I live and run a business in Salem, and very frequently drive to Bangalore to source materials. I am here each time for 1-2 days, mostly every week. I have a standing arrangement with my friend - I use a room in his house and visit vendors in the same part of town every time I visit.
  5. I am a hot shot corporate executive in an MNC, with a job that requires me to travel to Mumbai/Delhi/Chennai/Hyderabad/Singapore/London/USA/Dubai for fairly extended periods of time. Nominally, my office location is Bangalore. I have kept a car for my use in Bangalore, and it is still registered in my previous address (Calcutta).

In a free country like ours, and a city like Bangalore, you will get a fair proportion of people in all three categories. So, with the exception of people in White category points 1 & 2, the RTO will be extremely interested in all others. Now mind, in a free country and a democracy, it is highly improper for a Government to appropriate for itself, even by using a legislative route, disproportionate powers that could make it resemble goonda raj (let us face it though, most of our law makers belong to that category).

Having said that, the RTO needs a robust mechanism to recognise people belonging to White point 3, and the Black category. Because the White No. 3 should not be harassed, and everyone belonging to the Black category needs to be pulled up and have the book thrown at their heads.

But what about the ones in the Grey category? How does the RTO distinguish them from Black? It is a tricky minefield, because the investigative methods used by Karnataka RTO recently would make all of them appear Black. Since RTO is an arm of the Government, they need to perform their duty of enforcing the law while also be mindful of the rights of the citizens. The debate in this forum, as I have observed, is all to do with this same question. And, to be fair to both sides, this is a very tricky question.

So whats the solution? @sachinpk has already provided one, I will suggest another.
Assuming that
  1. A vast majority of motor vehicles are powered by fossil fuels (petrol/diesel/LPG/CNG)
  2. Motor Vehicle Tax is levied for a motor vehicle using the roads

We could do away with Life Time Tax altogether.

All the so called "Road Tax" is levied on a per litre/kg basis on fuel. Since fuel purchase is directly proportional to use of road, this becomes a vastly fairer system. I am no expert on taxation, but this system could be revenue neutral if tax rates were appropriately set.

Last edited by KiloAlpha : 15th April 2015 at 15:05.
KiloAlpha is online now   (8) Thanks
Old 15th April 2015, 15:29   #1289
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,143
Thanked: 684 Times
Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

Quote:
Originally Posted by KiloAlpha View Post
All the so called "Road Tax" is levied on a per litre/kg basis on fuel. Since fuel purchase is directly proportional to use of road, this becomes a vastly fairer system. I am no expert on taxation, but this system could be revenue neutral if tax rates were appropriately set.
Good idea, but may lead to revenue leakages in border areas (of any state). I assume that the "Road Tax" is still determined at the state level, and is just collected when people fill fuel. Now take the example of Hosur. A person staying in South Eastern part of Bangalore can drive down say once a week, fill up their tank and come back. TN has lower road taxes, and so naturally even if that gets added when people fill petrol, it would be lesser out there. KA state would lose its revenue .

Facebook has a picture which is getting shared. A fuel bunk in TN has put up a poster in Malayalam. It states that this bunk is the last one before the TN-KL border, and the fuel costs Rs.3/litre LESS than the pump in KL. The pump owners and KL can sit and sulk, if people just read the message and top up their tanks here (when going towards KL, or folks from KL actually crossing the borders to top up the tanks).

Long distance buses from Calicut side makes sure that they refill from the small one street-town of Mahe, because the fuel prices are very low out there.

So if any state plans to collect Road Tax by increasing (or adding up to) the fuel price, people would still find a way to evade the tax.

Last edited by sachinpk : 15th April 2015 at 15:39.
sachinpk is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 15th April 2015, 16:08   #1290
Senior - BHPian
 
KiloAlpha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Cubicle
Posts: 1,255
Thanked: 1,442 Times
Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

Quote:
Originally Posted by sachinpk View Post
Good idea, but may lead to revenue leakages in border areas (of any state). I assume that the "Road Tax" is still determined at the state level, and is just collected when people fill fuel.
...
So if any state plans to collect Road Tax by increasing (or adding up to) the fuel price, people would still find a way to evade the tax.
I agree with the revenue leakage part. I guess my suggestion would work if this system were to be implemented pan-India. And if fuel prices were not drastically different, the incentive to hop across the border to fill up would be a little less.

How many people from around Karwar regularly hop into Goa to fill up? Quite a few, I would have guessed.
KiloAlpha is online now  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Buy car in state or out of state (Major price difference) autoenthusiast The Indian Car Scene 49 14th July 2017 01:21
Karnataka RTO - sms RTO to get Vehicle details 71Convertible The Indian Car Scene 83 8th October 2016 08:09
Where should I sell the car: State of Registration or Current State? m_upreti The Indian Car Scene 50 12th July 2016 17:38
RTO problems for transfering in own state vipinshetty The Indian Car Scene 5 20th February 2013 17:13


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 09:24.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks