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Old 21st April 2015, 14:22   #1351
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

We have come to a day when our own countrymen are called Migrants in their own country.

For all I knew till now is that Migrants are people who move between different nations, citizenships, etc.

Shame on Govt. Shame on people supporting this.
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Old 21st April 2015, 14:56   #1352
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

Hi Everyone!

Please sign this Petition for One Nation-One Road tax.
https://www.change.org/p/union-trans...ter_responsive

Find below the post in Facebook by Waseem:

Quote:
Dear Friends,
Rohit Chohan has managed to speak to the PA of Mr.Nitin Gadkari sometime back.He has asked Rohit to contact him as soon as our petition reaches the 50K mark and he will give us an appointment in 3-4days as Mr.Gadkari will be stationed in Delhi for next 10 days.
Mr.Gadkari will also raise the issue of One Nation-One Road in the ongoing parliament session citing our petition.
I request all of you once again to share this petition on your timeline and tag all your friends.Please share this petition on whatsapp groups as well.
We need another 6.5K signatures in next 2-3 days and now the ball is in our court.....

https://www.change.org/p/union-trans...ter_responsive

Jai Hind
Waseem...
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Old 21st April 2015, 14:56   #1353
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

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Originally Posted by Soumyajit9 View Post
We have come to a day when our own countrymen are called Migrants in their own country.

Shame on Govt. Shame on people supporting this.
No, this law has nothing to do with migrants. I am astounded people think so.

I have a first cousin who was born and brought up in KA, he even studied in Kannada medium until primary school. He moved to Pune on job for couple years, where he bought a car. When he moved back to KA, he faced the same law and paid up. True son of the soil and all, yet faced with the same LTT law. How is this a migrant discrimination law?

This incredibly unjust law is applicable to everybody irrespective of their state origin.
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Old 21st April 2015, 15:20   #1354
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

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No, this law has nothing to do with migrants. I am astounded people think so.

I have a first cousin who was born and brought up in KA, he even studied in Kannada medium until primary school. He moved to Pune on job for couple years, where he bought a car. When he moved back to KA, he faced the same law and paid up. True son of the soil and all, yet faced with the same LTT law. How is this a migrant discrimination law?

This incredibly unjust law is applicable to everybody irrespective of their state origin.
I would say it is this "migrant" attitude that people have because of which such laws have come up.
It is all human nature. The law making people are humans too, who in an effort to showcase their talent to their higher ups, come up with such discriminative words (like migrants) and make laws.

I agree to your last point - Irrespective of the state of origin.
This is what agitates me. When there is no discrimination elsewhere, why is it so rampant in our state ? Can't all the states co-exist without such greedy laws.
Few months back, there was a backlash / revenge by KL and TS too, where KA vehicles were caught and taxed. Don't the KA ministers understand this simple funda.

I feel like living in British era. Divide and Rule. Seggregate the outside state vehicles, tax them, harass them. At the end of fiscal year, show good revenue to your boses, get a promotion, get a party ticket, blah blah politics.
I hate to even discuss on this topic. The right word to describe it is Filthy.

Nevertheless, kudos to Waseem (Silverwood) for taking our pleas and pain forward to the brainless chaps up in the ministry level. Hope he gets justice and success in implementing some brain in the corrupt minds of the transport ministry of both the central and state govts.
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Old 21st April 2015, 16:28   #1355
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

Mod Note: Please keep tempers in check and avoid personal attacks. As Samurai has pointed out, the law applies equally to those domiciled in the state and those migrating there. Any further posts on this aspect will be summarily deleted.
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Old 21st April 2015, 20:02   #1356
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

We need to show this to our law-makers and people supporting these atrocious laws.

Waseem.....
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Old 22nd April 2015, 01:14   #1357
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

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Originally Posted by sachinpk View Post

Can you help me with any case laws in which courts have given a clear instruction that tax collected from any source has to be spent 100% on improving areas related to the sources? Because states like KL used to rake in huge revenues by selling liquor. In that case KL will have to push back this huge amount to say start more bars, beverages corp. outlet etc. The link you posted is related to Regulatory taxes related to trades etc. My understanding is that Motor Vehicle Taxes do not come in that bracket.
There are many judgments where-in the Judges have said that amount of the tax collected under a specific ''Head'' should be spent on improving that service area.Please stop trolling and do some research.Your basics are flawed as you do not understand the meaning between duty and tax.KL collects excise duty, not tax.

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Originally Posted by sachinpk View Post
Though I am not a direct or indirect beneficiary of the ill-gotten wealth of any government official in Karnataka (including the RTO),.
Ever heard the hindi proverb ''Chor Ki Daadhi Mein Tinka'': A speck in the beard of a thief.

Waseem....
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Old 22nd April 2015, 02:01   #1358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soumyajit9 View Post
We have come to a day when our own countrymen are called Migrants in their own country.



For all I knew till now is that Migrants are people who move between different nations, citizenships, etc.



Shame on Govt. Shame on people supporting this.

Nobody called anyone migrants, or immigrants!. As long as we are within the country's borders we are all citizens of this country (if one actually is)

Quote:
Originally Posted by saket77 View Post

I just found an interesting piece of news just now (dtd. 06/01/2012):

Is this implemented in KA? I hope people from KA would let us know that.

Regards,
Saket

Yes it is. I have a couple of relatives who are central govt employees (IOC and BHEL to be specific) and they didn't have an option to pay annual tax.

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Originally Posted by avira_tk View Post
that too to RTO crooks who don't lift a pen without a few hundreds changing hands. " Guilty Complex" is that a punishable offence? I've said this before, the government can raid the RTO to raise money, it costs 2000/- in bribes to remove hypothecation, other services "cost" more, see the convenience here, no squads, no needs for collecting evidence as the government already knows where they live and how much they are paid(earnings is a different issue, actually the thing of interest)

You are basically pissed off at techies who make more than you, if you are asking why people immigrate without working on their finances, here is why, companies recruit them, i.e. asked them to move here, I hope that answers it. Someone paying 10 month's rent in advance may not have enough money to pay up taxes that he has paid already. No one asked me to move here, even more importantly, the local government didn't create anything to help immigrants succeed here, its always been central government investment or private enterprise. The lack of interference was what made the city great, not useless pencil pushers harassing regular people. I have already paid 10 month's advance and LTT on the car I own, so I don't have a problem, but someone like you who gets a kick from harassment of people you are jealous about won't understand a concept of fairness.

Wow...! I am amazed at your comments. From your comments, if I can safely assume you're a techie:

You are a literate who can find out where the RTO is, get forms that are free, fill them, find out what documents are required, find out which queue to stand in, get your vehicle in line for inspection (if reqd) and finally submit the application for getting hypothecate on removed. And no, language wouldn't be a barrier because all this information is available on the RTO website which is in English and you can fill the forms in English too.

If you are hell bent on getting a job done at the RTO without paying bribe, nobody can stop you from that. And there's sakaala!

And because I have done this several times including registering a new vehicle myself, I would like to say, if you do your ground work on what's required and have all the documents "pucca" i.e without any loophole, no job at the RTO would require you to visit twice (unless you fail a test) if you reach there on time.

10 months rent in advance is a BLR thing and can't be generalized for the state. And yeah, that's there because house owners are spoilt for choice. Yep, may be unfair, but as far as I can remember it started with the influx of people, so no point cribbing about it.

I am saying this just because you brought it up. you could always reject an offer from a company that asks you to move to KA or even out of your city. Nobody stops anyone from doing that, right?

PS: good that you paid the L.T.T and you didn't have a problem with it.👍
I am a techie too.
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Old 22nd April 2015, 08:58   #1359
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Are you saying this LTT is applicable only to migrants? I have never kept a single car for 15 years. I have bought many vehicles in KA for which I was forced to pay LTT. I sold my Baleno after 2 years. Why did I, who can speak 3 native languages of KA end up paying 15 years of LTT on a car I used for 2 years? Why did I become target of this so called Xenophobia?
No one said LTT is the problem here. The entire discussion is around multiple LTTs, isn't it? Do we really need to drag our multi-linguistic skills into this discussion? If we buy a vehicle, we need to pay LTT, that's about it. No state is giving a tax-free car for anyone. the 15-year LTT is a common rule across states. However if you knew you would've sold off the car in 2-3 years AND there was a provision of paying annual taxes instead of one time LTT, wouldn't you have gone for that option?

And we should try and stop this discussion around a single state and being over-emotional. The crux of the problem is the age-old rules in the MVA which were written when the entire IT or today's floating population scene was non-existent. A person buying a 10L car is paying a truck load of taxes as well. No one is escaping that. Some state governments twisting that already-twisted rules to suit their pockets is the topic of discussion. When there is a clause saying a central govt. employee who gets a transfer to another state do not have to pay LTT (or gets a provision of annual tax (?)) at the new state, but a pvt. company employee needs to pay for 15 years, do we see the problem there?

Last edited by jayded : 22nd April 2015 at 09:01.
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Old 22nd April 2015, 09:11   #1360
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

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Originally Posted by jayded View Post
No one said LTT is the problem here. The entire discussion is around multiple LTTs, isn't it? Do we really need to drag our multi-linguistic skills into this discussion?
You should read the exchange before jumping into the midst of it. My reply was about why this issue isn't about xenophobia. Even I have paid multiple LTT and so have my relatives and friends who are locals. To let you in on a secret, none us are thrilled about it. We all want the uniform tax across states and want RTOs to directly exchange road taxes between them when we move between states, and not harass us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayded View Post
When there is a clause saying a central govt. employee who gets a transfer to another state do not have to pay LTT (or gets a provision of annual tax (?)) at the new state, but a pvt. company employee needs to pay for 15 years, do we see the problem there?
Is this what you believe? The post just above yours confirmed it is not true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Driving_Nomad View Post
Yes it is. I have a couple of relatives who are central govt employees (IOC and BHEL to be specific) and they didn't have an option to pay annual tax.
Please read the discussions properly before replying.
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Old 22nd April 2015, 09:28   #1361
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
You should read the exchange before jumping into the midst of it. My reply was about why this issue isn't about xenophobia. Even I have paid multiple LTT and so have my relatives and friends who are locals. To let you in on a secret, none us are thrilled about it. We all want the uniform tax across states and want RTOs to directly exchange road taxes between them when we move between states, and not harass us.

Is this what you believe? The post just above yours confirmed it is not true.
No one is invited into a discussion most of the times, so let's leave it at that. And I'd read the entire discussion before writing what I did.

And sir, it's not a big secret that anyone is unhappy about multi-taxation. It's natural. And from what I read, no one used the term xenophobic to generalize an entire crowd. It was directed at a single person who was defending the whole problem using a tone which suggested just that.

And yes, there are state-wise rules which allow central govt. employees to pay annual taxes instead of one time LTT. Again, it points out to the problem where each state has their own set of rules and ways to implement it.
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Old 22nd April 2015, 10:05   #1362
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

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Originally Posted by jayded View Post
And from what I read, no one used the term xenophobic to generalize an entire crowd. It was directed at a single person who was defending the whole problem using a tone which suggested just that.
It started like that, and then was expanded to the rule itself. So the rule became Xenophobic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by atnyia View Post
So, there is a rule which is, in effect, clearly discriminating out of state migrants.
Then it became "they" instead of one person. That is when I stepped in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by atnyia View Post
So, how does xenophobics defend this? They'll say, "Stay in your home state, we/our CM/Mayor did not invite you".
.
.
They don't even agree that migrants have a plight here.
It is a slippery slope once you start on this path. There is no need to politicize this purely legal matter, the forum rules don't allow it anyway.

Therefore, any further discussion alluding to xenophobia will not only be deleted, but the post will receive infraction under rule#13. - Support Team
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Old 22nd April 2015, 11:34   #1363
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Originally Posted by Driving_Nomad View Post
Wow...! I am amazed at your comments. From your comments, if I can safely assume you're a techie:

You are a literate who can find out where the RTO is, PS: good that you paid the L.T.T and you didn't have a problem with it.��
I am a techie too.
My problem is with the way the tax drive is conducted, but as long as we are not personally affected, we shouldn't complain right?

What does literacy have to do with finding the RTO? If you are hell bent on getting something from the RTO without paying a bribe, you are out of luck, that is what I was saying. I am glad you registered your car yourself, the dealer's hafta smoothened things for you, not your pucca documents, you have the option of registering ownership in a non existent address if you pay 500 more, so much for tracing ownership and fighting crime.

I don't know about your offer, but companies that need skilled manpower need to find them from anywhere, unlike the RTO pencil pushers, these people do useful work and pay out taxes, they aren't paid out of taxes. What kind of person gives weightage to road tax when evaluating a job opportunity?

I bought my car here, so naturally its registered here with LTT paid, the only problem is taking it across state lines when the river conflicts go out of control. The 10 month rent thing is slowly fading away, as the boom fades out and pay hikes become rare, the people who benefitted from it through state largesse (subsidized housing plots which they converted to multi storey rental accomodation) are learning to temper their greed.

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Originally Posted by sachinpk View Post
The state can be a benevolent benefactor, but at not the expense of foregoing tax revenues .

Did I say so? But "guilty complex" makes the process of confessing for a crime a much simpler process. Makes preparing the charges a bit more easy. If these people all had very strong convictions that they did no wrong, they could have fought back. How many tried? Yeah, it would be tough for a person coming out of a 60 lakh worth apartment to lie through their teeth and just came in two weeks back .


In Kerala I have seen drunkards advising Traffic police men, that should not catch them but focus on catching over-speeders. Over-speeders try advicing the RTO and Police to first check politicians and ensure they don't do any crime. These advices ultimately have no meaning. RTO and Police work based on their mandates. Ultimately the drunk driver and the over-speeder finds their advise ignored and a summons/vehicle check report handed over and fines collected.


Then either the company can pay up the LTT, or the employee can pay the LTT. Or else the employee can say he would not budge from his current place. The state government has no role to play here.


That is how you view things. But without the due approvals and tax breaks no IT company would set up shop here. Take for example KL which did nothing to support IT. They also have no compulsions to collect LTT, and other state specific taxes. A scheme which is implemented in KA would not work in KL, because the number of tax-dodgers would be less. A few Malayalis (quite small in number) using their KA vehicles may get caught in such raids. Don't allow your pet peeves against government servants (especially RTO) stop you seeing the rights of the state and central governments.
The state can't be benevolent because the money doesn't belong to the state, those are taken with the implicit threat of force from citizens who don't have a choice, thats a reality of taxes anywhere. Not surprising you think government benevolence is natural, charity should come from your pocket, if you steal someone's wallet and help someone in need, you are still a thief.

A 60 lakh apartment is your idea of "rich", I live on rent in a 75 lakh apartment -valuation according to the government, good luck trying to find a buyer at that price. Suppose I give my car for repair and drive my dad's car to office for 2 days and on the second day the RTO crooks who station themselves about 100 meters from my apartment gate stop me, do I have to surrender my documents? What if we are leaving that afternoon to Kerala, do we leave the originals here with people whose identity we can't confirm and what do we do later on? I'll have my local company ID on me, does that prove I always used the car or that it has been here for 30 days? I keep the community sticker with me too, so the security lets me pass, again does that prove the car has been here long term? The RTO will find the car in my slot on a weekend, because I keep my car in the visitor parking when my parent are visting, does that mean my dad has to pay LTT because he can't prove that he doesn't live in my apartment? Waiting to hear your logic on this.

You would "confess" to anything the police accuse you of, if you were cornered in such a fashion. I hope you experience law enforcement excess first hand, I am sure you won't use a smiley to describe the experience.

Kerala has had good success with drunk driving checks, you straw man example isn't valid, the drunk is picked up and send to the hospital for a blood test and consequent legal action. The speeding fines are payable online and no further action is taken because the government can't upset this gravy train.

Kerala set up an IT park pretty much at the same time, the reality of lost mandays and insecurity due to political agitations meant that it never really caught on. People come to Bangalore for its cosmopolitan culture, even though KA has the same policies everywhere, no other place in the state is able to attract companies or people, tax breaks are always expensive for the citizen, only the corporate benefits, finally shakedowns are inevitable when the biggest revenue sources are ignored.

Last edited by GTO : 23rd April 2015 at 17:14. Reason: Removing inappropriate line, please keep it cool.
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Old 22nd April 2015, 11:37   #1364
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

I signed and shared the petition on my FB wall. Glad to see that 50K mark is crossed. Kudos to Waseem and team for all the good work done so far.
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Old 22nd April 2015, 11:43   #1365
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Please read the discussions properly before replying.

My bad. I am not sure whether LTT was collected from those who were eligible and had bought cars under the yearly road tax scheme. However, I believe this should have happened. After the rule got changed, any such person who would have walked into the RTO to pay road tax for that year would have been asked to pay LTT for 15-(years already paid for). I however don't have any proof for this.
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