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Old 23rd April 2015, 10:22   #1381
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

Quote:
Originally Posted by sridhar-v View Post
Could anybody point me to a online copy of both the relevant act and rules.?
Here you go:

The Act: http://dpal.kar.nic.in/35%20of%201957%20(E).pdf
The Rules: It is called Karnataka Motor Vehicle Taxation Rules, 1957. I've been searching for it, but I don't think it is available online. Now the only option I can see is to ask for it via an RTI application.
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Old 23rd April 2015, 12:20   #1382
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

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Originally Posted by Soumyajit9 View Post
We have come to a day when our own countrymen are called Migrants in their own country.

For all I knew till now is that Migrants are people who move between different nations, citizenships, etc.

Shame on Govt. Shame on people supporting this.
OT Post.

I think there is some misunderstanding with the word migrant. It's usually a parlance for people moving to places (within and outside country) for work, kind of temporary or even permanent.

In Haryana/Punjab, there is a lot of migrant labor which arrives during crop season from across northern states. I think there is no problem with the use of the word.

While immigrants is almost exclusively used for people settling in other countries.
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Old 23rd April 2015, 14:42   #1383
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

A not so happy news for many out here..
Owner of out-of-State vehicle? pay up
From the report...
Addressing presspersons on Wednesday, Transport Commissioner Ramegowda said any out-of-State vehicle plying in Karnataka for more than 30 days can be seized if lifetime tax has not been paid to the Karnataka government. The High Court vacated its stay on the collection of lifetime tax on April 8.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sridhar-v
Could anybody point me to a online copy of both the relevant act and rules.?
Click here to get an online copy of the Karnataka Motor Vehicles Taxation Act. It was this act which got modified by an amendment last year. Section 4, Section 8A, Section 11, 11A, 12, 12A all may be the sections which many of us here would be interested in. There exists as "The Karnataka Motor Vehicle Taxation, Rules, 1957" but I could not find a downloadable copy of that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by binand
It would be a good campaign to run - all those who have paid tax in Karnataka and have not used the vehicle for more than 1 month should apply for a refund.
Will not be so simple, comrade . The same legal provision says that "proved to the satisfaction of the prescribed authority". Assuming that the authority is the KA RTO, it would be a tough time to claim refund that the vehicle even though was in Karnataka, was not "used". Please refer to a very old case which I quoted. The one in which two businessmen tried to get an exemption by stating that the vehicles were kept in one state, but NOT actually driven on the roads of that state.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SILVERWOOD
There are many judgments where-in the Judges have said that amount of the tax collected under a specific ''Head'' should be spent on improving that service area.Please stop trolling and do some research.
Thanks for the clarification of Kerala Excise related rules. I learnt some thing new. It is through my own research that I managed to figure out which Act was actually amended. Where as people were using the Constituition, "Freedom to do this & that", I in my humble opinion have been able to bring up some legal aspects to the whole issue. One learned individual had even opined that the judge made some comments which kind of invalidated the Karnataka government's amendment. Look what happened? Nothing mentioned in the stay order, and the stay order itself vacated in due course. So who is trolling and who is doing research here?

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Ever heard the hindi proverb ''Chor Ki Daadhi Mein Tinka'': A speck in the beard of a thief.
I have left a Personal Message to you. No need to respond on that. It is just for your information.

Quote:
The RTO will find the car in my slot on a weekend, because I keep my car in the visitor parking when my parent are visting, does that mean my dad has to pay LTT because he can't prove that he doesn't live in my apartment? Waiting to hear your logic on this.
There are enough permutation and combinations to circumvent any thing. In your case, you may have to tag your dad along to give his explanation. Any body can cook any excuse to evade tax, so nothing new here. Bu I don't think many of the people who got caught have tried this excuse.

Quote:
You would "confess" to anything the police accuse you of, if you were cornered in such a fashion. I hope you experience law enforcement excess first hand, I am sure you won't use a smiley to describe the experience.
That is why we have court's here. Even the motor vehicle taxation act lists out provisions for appeal and hearing of such cases. This is pretty much the same facility a person who faces police brutality can use.

Last edited by khan_sultan : 24th April 2015 at 14:09. Reason: Let's not bring employment in this state vs that state into the discussion. It will go nowhere
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Old 23rd April 2015, 15:09   #1384
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

Quote:
Originally Posted by sachinpk View Post
Will not be so simple, comrade . The same legal provision says that "proved to the satisfaction of the prescribed authority". Assuming that the authority is the KA RTO, it would be a tough time to claim refund that the vehicle even though was in Karnataka, was not "used".
I did some further research on this. It is quite easy; there's a form you have to fill up and submit to the RTO beforehand. In that you have to mention where the vehicle will be during the period you are claiming the vehicle will not be used. The RTO is supposed to visit that place and ascertain that the vehicle is indeed parked there, and then process a refund.

The caveat? You have to submit the vehicle documents to the RTO; to be returned when you are ready to use the vehicle. Even then there are exemptions for hypothecated or pledged vehicles.
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Old 24th April 2015, 09:01   #1385
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

What is the tax rule for out side vehicles in Kerala?
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Old 24th April 2015, 09:47   #1386
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

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Originally Posted by coolclouds View Post
What is the tax rule for out side vehicles in Kerala?
About Kerala Motor Vehicle Taxes
Taxation Schedule

Hope this helps..
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Old 24th April 2015, 10:11   #1387
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

Quote:
Originally Posted by sachinpk View Post
Thank you Sachin for the link. I remember reading somewhere that one can pay some amount for initial x period without paying life tax. I couldn't find this info in MVD site.
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Old 24th April 2015, 10:42   #1388
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

Just trying to summarise the pulse in this thread.

Why does one find the LTT irritating?
1.The amount is too high
2.I won’t be able to easily get back LTT from my home state or new state when I move
3.I feel that the LTT amount is not being used properly to maintain roads
4.The procedures for paying LTT is cumbersome, due to language, away-from-office time, bribes to be paid
5.If my relative is visiting me using his/her car, I do not know how to prove that the car is not there for more than 30 days.

What can be done about it?
1. Uniform/National LTT for each vehicle (to address all points)
-Central government/central authority to take responsibility for each and every road in each major city
-State governments will be provided funds on per km basis and equal standards are followed for Land acquisition, road width, quality, sourcing of raw material, man and machines
-Roads to be built or upgraded based on present vehicle population and density only. Decision to be by central body. No advance planning allowed, since each state will start bickering about the other getting more funds
-Roads to be built on time, else stiff penalties.
-Basically everything the Indian Railway does

OR

2. Make LTT transfer between states easier and faster. (addresses directly 2 and 4). For other points like
-LTT too high? .We can maybe console ourselves by considering that the vehicle density of the new state might be much more that the home state. The cost of labour, materials might be high. Anyway, the easy LTT transfer from the original state, would partly fund the pro-rata based LTT of new state
-About state of roads, act united as an active voting population, so that the rulers know that we won’t take anything lying down
-About relatives visiting us for 30 days- The RFID tag if available can be read at automated border entry booths. But how to check if they have been not been jumping to and fro the border post every 29 days? The accumulated time should not be more that 60 days/year starting from first entry of that year? If more than 60 days then affidavit required from Home state stating reason for extended stay? I don’t have much ideas here. But given a chance(easy LTT transfer), I’m sure that we would happily pay up the amount and not use the loop holes here.

OR

3. Make LTT to a Yearly tax like before
-Like insurance, they could collect this yearly and enforce with steep fines for non-payment
-If your car is totaled in a crash, you don’t have to pay out more tax
-Move your car to any state at end of tax year and start paying their annual tax
-Government could have more flexibility to specify end of life of vehicle, because they don’t have to think of repaying the remaining part of LTT.
But there must have been some reason other that greediness that made the government shift to LTT, which I do not know about

What do you think?

Last edited by nijelj : 24th April 2015 at 11:00. Reason: One more doubt to put
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Old 24th April 2015, 11:15   #1389
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

Quote:
Originally Posted by coolclouds
I remember reading somewhere that one can pay some amount for initial x period without paying life tax. I couldn't find this info in MVD site.
That as per my understanding is just a proposal which our dear old finance minister Maani Saar* made during the widely viewed budget presentation of this year. The proposal is to collect LTT once a non-KL vehicle is used in KL state for more than 12 months. For lesser durations, Motor Vehicle Tax would be collected for 1 month, or on a quarterly basis. But no legal provisions exist at this point of time, so tax collection is yet to start. KL needs to figure out how this kind of classification can be done correctly, and taxes collected accordingly.

* Maani Saar himself has landed up in a deep mess now, so I don't think he has enough band width to work out such a scheme.
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Old 24th April 2015, 12:38   #1390
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

I have been a passive reader on this thread for a while now.

What about defence & central govt. personnel? They have to pack bags and move every 2yrs. so with this one move any and every defence service personnel will have to go through the arduous task of having to register, re-register & de-register the vehicle and I do not need to emphasize how efficient the RTO's in the state are to process this.

Why be insensitive about people involved? Why not have a more transparent system (maybe online with a direct debit to the bank)? Will make people a lot more comfortable to pay and get refunds. you cannot demand without having your own house in order.

Importantly, if the only incentive for the government is to collect the tax, the very perspective that they are coming from is incorrect and I question that basis.


Think of this everytime you ride over a bump or complain about a traffic mess.

My $0.02

Last edited by khan_sultan : 24th April 2015 at 14:09. Reason: Let's not bring employment on this state vs that state into the discussion. It will go nowhere
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Old 24th April 2015, 13:43   #1391
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

And now, 2 states fighting with one another on road tax :
Quote:
With Telangana adamant about the stand over the entry tax levied on the vehicles entering Telangana even despite repeated appeals made by the A.P. government and private bus operators, Andhra Pradesh Government has retaliated with introducing motor vehicle tax on transport vehicles entering the State. The move by AP Govt will push the prices of all essential commodities including fruits, milk, vegetables and rice.
Source

This country will be torn apart one day with mindless imposition of taxes.

Last edited by sdp1975 : 24th April 2015 at 14:08.
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Old 24th April 2015, 13:48   #1392
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

Quote:
Originally Posted by duke
What about defence & central govt. personnel? They have to pack bags and move every 2yrs. so with this one move any and every defence service personnel will have to go through the arduous task of having to register, re-register & de-register the vehicle and I do not need to emphasize how efficient the RTO's in the state are to process this.
My understanding is that Central Government employees (including Defence personnel) are exempted from this.

Last edited by khan_sultan : 24th April 2015 at 14:07. Reason: Let's not bring employment on this state vs that state into the discussion. It will go nowhere
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Old 24th April 2015, 13:58   #1393
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

Quote:
Originally Posted by nijelj View Post
Just trying to summarise the pulse in this thread.

Why does one find the LTT irritating?

What can be done about it?
1. Uniform/National LTT for each vehicle (to address all points)

OR

2. Make LTT transfer between states easier and faster. (addresses directly 2 and 4). For other points like


3. Make LTT to a Yearly tax like before

What do you think?
Nicely setup agenda.

1. Uniform/Central Road Tax: Idea is utterly naive to be frank. Roads are state matters. Should remain so. Likely to remain so under current Central government. India is essentially a federal structure and Center should not be doing this stuff. They already have National Highways (to put an analogy with Railways).
Problems with this:
a. Center is clearly not equipped to handle this
b. Will impact state revenues in a major way, making them more dependent on central grants. Is likely to cause even more corruption, both at center as well as the state level.
c. India is a big country. States do have better understanding of the terrain as well as road requirements.

2. LTT Transfers: Currently most palatable to motorists as well as states. Sounds most logical too. The process ought to be simplified. It's already being done for PF transfers. Isn't it? Suits the largest of denominator. But, it is complicated to implement as state RTOs act in silos. Unless made online, it'll be a source of corruption. It will cause state politics and bickering as unlike PF (which is a long term liability), Road Tax is a current asset and states will be unwilling to let go.

3. Yearly/Quarterly Road Tax: Like the entry tax for commercial vehicles, this can be another provision for highly mobile citizens. So often, these people have an idea of their likely duration of stay.

Retaxation is against the spirit of the act. In hindsight, may be, that's why government employees (which means on central rolls) were exempted from paying this, because they were supposed to be very mobile.
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Old 24th April 2015, 15:51   #1394
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

Quote:
Originally Posted by sachinpk View Post
My understanding is that Central Government employees (including Defence personnel) are exempted from this.
They are not exempted, but have the liberty of paying the taxes every year
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Old 24th April 2015, 15:56   #1395
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

Quote:
Originally Posted by uday.ere View Post
They are not exempted, but have the liberty of paying the taxes every year
Why not give this liberty to everyone? Why force LTT on someone who may not be a permanent resident. This way state gets taxes on all vehicles and owners pay a reasonable tax every year in whatever state they stay in. If yearly is too short, they can make it for 2,3,5 years. WB used to have 5 year tax.
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