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Old 24th April 2015, 16:51   #1396
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

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Originally Posted by jetti View Post
Why not give this liberty to everyone? Why force LTT on someone who may not be a permanent resident. This way state gets taxes on all vehicles and owners pay a reasonable tax every year in whatever state they stay in. If yearly is too short, they can make it for 2,3,5 years. WB used to have 5 year tax.
Agreed, good solution would be to have a flexible time-frame based on need. (Something along the lines of a pre-paid re-charge)
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Old 24th April 2015, 19:29   #1397
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

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Agreed, good solution would be to have a flexible time-frame based on need. (Something along the lines of a pre-paid re-charge)
Implementation (and its challenges) are the key here. For many states Life Time Tax is a major revenue. It is even a case where some one is paying upfront for the services given out during a 15 year period. Leave alone KA (now accused of tax terrorism), even her sister states like KL would prefer to get LTT. From what I know, many major states in India have gone the LTT route long time back. I don't think they would prefer to go back to an annual tax system.

I had thought on a solution, which I could conjure up - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post3686154 (Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore)
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Old 25th April 2015, 07:51   #1398
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Hello All, I have a quick question. I have an outstation registered car. Can we pay tax in a different city within the same state to where I have address proof. As an example, can I pay tax in Mysore RTO if my address proof has Bangalore South address ?
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Old 25th April 2015, 11:52   #1399
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

Address proof is not necessary to pay road tax in Karnataka. All you need is the Regn and invoice. I'd like to know if tax is calculated on cost only or cost + VAT?
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Old 25th April 2015, 13:17   #1400
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

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Originally Posted by sachinpk View Post
Implementation (and its challenges) are the key here.
That line of argument doesn't really stand up to scrutiny, given the facility to pay tax for smaller durations is already available to select people (govt. employees, defence personnel etc). Scalability may be an issue, but it's more an excuse. Why? See next points.

Quote:
For many states Life Time Tax is a major revenue.....

.....states like <> would prefer to get LTT.......
That's exactly what's causing the uproar. This pretty much sums up the state's approach:

Why bother spending effort and money devising and implementing a fair(er) workable solution when the law of the land gives us the right to amend pertinent laws to generate revenue to make up for administrative deficiencies across the board elsewhere? Why be fair when we can have all the money we want by randomly changing laws for our own benefit? Why even make an effort to do the right thing when the path to easy money is faster?

The states have no motivation to implement a better solution because they don't need to, and consequently don't want to. The constitution gives them the right, and they're only too happy to exploit it to make some easy money. Complex problem with no easy solution. This will probably need changes at the constitutional level (to amend what the states can/cannot do) and given how fast our bureaucracy moves on stuff they actually want to do, fat chance they'll ever do anything to kill a proverbial golden-egg-laying goose.

I've paid all my taxes on time within prescribed procedures wherever I've lived (and I have lived pretty much all over the country), but that doesn't mean I don't believe it's unfair. I don't promote lawlessness or tax-dodging either, but a one-sided system can only go so far before it collapses onto itself, legal or otherwise.

P.S. Before we hit the same 'the law is the law' loop again, I admit it's a 'legally sound' position to take as-is, but that doesn't mean it's NOT a slippery slope. Law should not supercede justice and when it does, the law needs to be changed. If existing laws were set in stone, we'd still be a British colony. I don't even need to mention how it can be extrapolated back to beginning of time. Very slippery slope indeed.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 25th April 2015 at 13:47.
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Old 25th April 2015, 14:47   #1401
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

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Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao
The states have no motivation to implement a better solution because they don't need to, and consequently don't want to. The constitution gives them the right, and they're only too happy to exploit it to make some easy money. Complex problem with no easy solution.
The solution is also there. But that can only be put forward if the National Road Transport Safety Bill gets passed and becomes an Act. That bill proposes radical changes in the way RTOs etc. would be working. KA any way has opposed it. But KL is also opposing, why? So we also need to understand the grim reality. No state really wants to give away any scheme which helps them generate revenue. I need to mention this here, because KA has been even accused of "tax terrorism" . The other states may be not crying, because they any way may not be making much revenue through LTT. But if there is a plan to change any scheme, by which a state's revenue may be hit, that state would also start crying hoarse. There is a "Transport Bandh" planned for April 30th, and that is against this proposed National Road Transport Safety Bill. What I could understand is that - states which have a functioning dedicated* Motor Vehicle's Department (including RTO etc.), and also have put in good efforts for Traffic law Enforcement (through RTO, Highway Police squads, speed radars etc.), and also get a good revenue share through LTT is dead against the new law.

Even I am in favour of proper laws and also against tax-dodging. But I am also dead against, people using a state's resources and then going berserk when asked for their tax dues.

* By dedicated I mean having a state level cadre of officers who are recruited exclusively for Motor Vehicles Department. In some states, there is no MV Dept. cadre, and people are seconded/deputed from the police department on an ad-hoc basis.
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Old 25th April 2015, 18:02   #1402
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

What are the commercial tax amounts? If I want to buy a car and plan to use it for 3 years or less, is it cheaper for me to pay yearly commercial tax? I do know that commercial registered vehicles hold better resale value. Esp if I buy an Innova, Indica, Verito, etc.
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Old 26th April 2015, 09:48   #1403
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildsdi5530 View Post
Address proof is not necessary to pay road tax in Karnataka. All you need is the Regn and invoice. I'd like to know if tax is calculated on cost only or cost + VAT?

The tax is calculated on ex-showroom value which is cost + vat.

Another question - In my case the RTO mentioned while I applied for NoC is Bangalore. But in the actual NoC, I doubt if it's addressed to some specific RTO. And now I want to register in Mysore. Is this critical and should I reapply NoC or is it generic ?
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Old 26th April 2015, 12:00   #1404
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

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Originally Posted by wildsdi5530 View Post
What are the commercial tax amounts? If I want to buy a car and plan to use it for 3 years or less, is it cheaper for me to pay yearly commercial tax? I do know that commercial registered vehicles hold better resale value. Esp if I buy an Innova, Indica, Verito, etc.
When I traveled heavily I used to keep one commercial (taxi) registered car, and pay short term taxes at the border, many salesmen etc are doing the same these days. Annual tax for a 4 passenger sedan in MH is Rs 8000 while for a 6 passenger one is Rs 12000. KA tax is also about Rs 12000 annually.
MH collects minimum 3 months tax with a 10% addition, ie Rs 2200 per quarter instead of Rs 8000 per year. KA and Goa collect minimum 1 Yr tax. All others collect short periods. MP one day, Gujarat 7 or 30 or 90 days, etc.

Previously MH and AP did not tax each others cars, but you had to register and declare intended itenary at border 1 day to 90 days and registration charges were Rs 80/- But this provision is now defunct.

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Old 28th April 2015, 13:31   #1405
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

Happened to see this news item in Bangalore Mirror:

Now state Highways are set to take a toll on your wallet

Quote:
The government has formally notified and published the Karnataka Road User Fee (Determination of Rates and Collection) Rules in the gazette dated April 23. What is more shocking is that the toll is not only being imposed for state highways developed under the public-private partnership (PPP) model, but also for the state-funded highways.


As per the notification issued by the PWD, a base price was fixed for different categories of vehicles. Cars, jeep, van or light motor vehicles will pay 65 paise/km, light commercial vehicles and mini-buses will pay Rs 1.05/km, bus or commercial vehicle (two-axle) will be charged Rs 2.20/km and three-axle vehicles will cough up Rs 2.24/ km. If the toll fee is levied for using state highways, it will have various implications. Travelling in long distance buses will be more expensive; cost of commodities and daily consumables may become higher.

The notification states that toll fee can be levied on any section of the state highways. The state government exempted collection of fee from two wheelers, three wheelers, tractors, and animal-drawn and agriculture-transport vehicles. Also exempted are government vehicles which include members of defence, parliament and legislatures, freedom fighters, national and international award winners and journalists with accreditation.
First, the National Highways. Now, State Highways in KA. What next, a toll booth every 100m in the city? Or, maybe a pay-per-use system implemented with RFID all over the city/town?
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Old 28th April 2015, 13:36   #1406
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

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Originally Posted by silversteed View Post
Happened to see this news item in Bangalore Mirror:

Now state Highways are set to take a toll on your wallet



First, the National Highways. Now, State Highways in KA. What next, a toll booth every 100m in the city? Or, maybe a pay-per-use system implemented with RFID all over the city/town?
Are the SH in KA on par with those in TN. TN SH are a pleasure to drive.
Coming to toll collection, I think KA govt is hell bent on making a deep hole in the wallet's of the common man.
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Old 28th April 2015, 14:27   #1407
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

Quote:
Originally Posted by silversteed View Post
Happened to see this news item in Bangalore Mirror:

Now state Highways are set to take a toll on your wallet



First, the National Highways. Now, State Highways in KA. What next, a toll booth every 100m in the city? Or, maybe a pay-per-use system implemented with RFID all over the city/town?
I keep asking myself this question every day.. What do the people who pay close to 20% income tax, 5-14.5% VAT, 14% Service tax, 15-18 % road tax, god knows how much fuel tax, Property Tax etc etc. get in return?
We are one of the highest taxed countries in the world and we do not get
- Free public School Education for our children
- Good quality roads and network (without toll)
- No Free Healthcare
- Quality Accessible Affordable College education
- Subsidized Food
- Proper drinking Water and Garbage collection
- Reliable Electricity

The move to tax even state roads built using state funds is just a big middle finger by the govt to the tax paying citizens. I hope someone litigates the heck out of it. Even after pocketing a good percentage of all the taxes in various scams, there must be something left right..
A lot of other countries have higher taxes but all their citizens get something in return. In India, the govt(s) makes sure that ordinary law abiding tax paying citizens get absolutely nothing in return.

Probably Deserves separate thread anyway..
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Old 28th April 2015, 14:43   #1408
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

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Originally Posted by silversteed View Post
Now state Highways are set to take a toll on your wallet.

First, the National Highways. Now, State Highways in KA. What next, a toll booth every 100m in the city? Or, maybe a pay-per-use system implemented with RFID all over the city/town?
If this is not tax (or toll) terrorism, WHAT IS?? We have paid Road tax already while purchasing the vehicle and now we need to pay more money to use the roads. We have been talking about net-neutrality a lot, guess it is time to protest and ask for road neutrality as well

I hope no one comes and justifies the state's stand for this also. Wish other states dont get wicked ideas seeing Karnataka's money extracting methodologies.
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Old 28th April 2015, 15:06   #1409
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

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Originally Posted by vishnugs View Post
......In my case the RTO mentioned while I applied for NoC is Bangalore. But in the actual NoC, I doubt if it's addressed to some specific RTO. And now I want to register in Mysore. Is this critical and should I reapply NoC or is it generic ?
The NOC is usually issued with the city's name as per your application on Form CMV 28(?), but not down to a specific RTO (in cities where multiple ones exist). An NOC issued for a particular city can be used at any of its jurisdictional RTOs, given you satisfy other prescribed registration criteria (address proof in the jurisdictional RTO etc.).
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Old 28th April 2015, 22:13   #1410
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Default Re: Case: Out of State Cars vs RTO Bangalore

So, if Road tax is collected by the state government for the use of state laid roads, collecting tolls for the state highways implies that the vehicles users of Karnataka paid road tax to use the roads and streets other than the State highways - which I am told is in a state of dis-repair predominantly. The road tax levied is one of the highest in the country (even after considering the fact that Karnataka is one of the large states in terms of area). I hope the neighbouring and other states do not follow suit in milking taxes like this.
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