Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 7th September 2007, 21:50   #61
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Mpower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 10,432
Thanked: 1,682 Times
Default

If a car without a cat can pass emissions, then the emissions analyser is probably not working. Either that or the pass/fail criteria set for that analyser is too low.

water vapor is one of the by products of combustion so there's nothing unusual about it. Usually goes out as steam, thats why you never see it.
Mpower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2007, 15:40   #62
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Cochin
Posts: 137
Thanked: 6 Times
Default

There is NOTHING WRONG in any modification, provided they satisfy the rules of the land. The rules DOES NOT say you must have a catcon. The rules say the pollution levels should be such and such.

Now, does the normal roadside smog test equipment test the whole spectrum of emissions? Like, there something like "qualification" or "type testing" when a vehicle gets approved, that is different from the roadside tester? If that is the case, any engine mod would have to go through that test. OR else, a regular test with a properly calibrated tester should suffice.
DileepKS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2007, 19:47   #63
Senior - BHPian
 
vivekiny2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: cincinnati, jabalpur,chennai
Posts: 1,241
Thanked: 163 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DileepKS View Post
There is NOTHING WRONG in any modification, provided they satisfy the rules of the land. The rules DOES NOT say you must have a catcon. The rules say the pollution levels should be such and such.
rules do not say that you can NOT take a wheel off and drive. or NOT take the handle off and drive the bike like circus. or NOT disable the seatbelt warning by altering the clip.

Because it is difficult to say that for each of the thousands of the parts of an automobile, rules blanketly say that any modification is not allowed unless approved by authorities.

You got a better idea to stop maniacs for doing such things?
vivekiny2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th September 2007, 10:46   #64
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 3,083
Thanked: 252 Times
Default

Any info regarding the 'modifiers'? Do they seek RTO approvals? Considering the large sums of money that some of them charge, they ought to be doing the 'complete' job.
anupmathur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th September 2007, 10:49   #65
BHPian
 
w 12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: bangalore
Posts: 402
Thanked: 26 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DileepKS View Post
The rules DOES NOT say you must have a catcon. The rules say the pollution levels should be such and such.
My question is, how does this miraculous technology work ?

The engine designers after spending lots of money and time to control the emission gases , decided that a Catcon should be factory installed, to satisfy the rules of the land.( although this is a major additional expense to manufacturers)

If as you say , the pollution levels with stock catcon and without catcon and with freeflow is same , then this is a technology global auto majors do not know about. A potential saving of 8 - 20 k per car is something the manufacturers will beg you for.

Imagine the savings . On an average 100,000 cars are sold in a month in India. If you can do without catcons for all of them , maintaining same pollutant levels , the we can save 80 crores a month assuming average unit price of 8000 . That is Rs. 960 crores saved in one year.

If you know more about this technology , do let me know with documented data. Till then it remains a wild theory , fit to be in "official Jokes" thread IMO.
w 12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th September 2007, 13:24   #66
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 3,083
Thanked: 252 Times
Default

DileepKS, is it so hard to understand what w 12 is saying? Seems a very logical progression of thought.
If catcons are so easy to render superfluous, why is not being done by those who design the cars?
By the way, it is matter for quite another thread that catcons, as being, used most of the time in traffic-jam conditions in our metros are quite 'un-able' to do their job! A catcon, I've heard, requires at least 20 mins or so of steady-state driving to be able to function as designed. Failing which it also fails to achieve its design objectives.
anupmathur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th September 2007, 14:25   #67
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 496
Thanked: 261 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
I know of people whose RC books read 993cc for the Engine Capacity of a Kinetic Honda and 0 bhp too. RTO guys make a lot of errors on RC books, I have seen atleast 5 cases of wrong figures.
the registeration date on the rc of my 1996 e250d was earlier than the month of manufacture stated in it... which meant that the car was registered before it was even manufactured!!!
awini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th September 2007, 18:09   #68
Senior - BHPian
 
v1p3r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: BLR - chasing cars...
Posts: 4,836
Thanked: 26 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by anandpadhye View Post
Why not?

I see nothing wrong with what RTO is doing.

Free flow means the guy has taken the catalytic convertor out.

Thant's not only anti-environment but also against the rule of the land.

Why do people think that they have a previledge to harm the environment just because they have some odd passion or a lot of money?
Well, I'd much appreciate it if you stopped using your car, in the same vein. Using a nice, clean local bus would do wonders. But, oh, do stop to check that the bus isn't belching out black smoke or pollutants. And ask the driver for the latest emission certificate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DileepKS View Post
Why complain? You take the pains and spend the money to do the mods. Just spend a little bit more to get it endorsed by RTO. Simple onlee!!
You can't. It's illegal, not just subject to RTO approval.

Regarding a catcon, please remember that most emission tests in India cater to the lowest common denominator. In this case, it is probably the pre Euro II carburetted cars. There is no way a regular MPFI car, even without the catcon, will fail such a test. But it is still not upto the present standards, or the ones prevalent at the time of its launch. Those will likely be Euro II or III standards.

Water will always come out of an MPFI exhaust, unless the sensor system is badly malfunctioning. The catcon takes some time to warm up, and once it is running at ideal AFR ranges, the combustion will be as good as possible. By basic chemistry, any hydrocarbon combustion will lead to CO2 and water. Any pollutants are because of petrol additives of various kinds.*

There is no way a car without a catalytic convertor will perform better in a test than one with it, all else being equal. I'd like to see some proof stating otherwise. Also, you can have cat-back free-flows, which still have the catcon on.

* This leads to the question: are Speed and other additive-enhanced fuels more polluting?
v1p3r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th September 2007, 18:45   #69
BHPian
 
rohan_fonseca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Panaji
Posts: 984
Thanked: 4 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mclaren1885 View Post
W12, I love the hint of sarcasm in your posts. But read carefully, I have posted about many of the cars I know which have passed emission tests easily. And I am not going to argue with you on this one. If you need proof, come to the next meet and I will be glad to show you some of the emission test reports of a few cars belonging to my friends. Or you are free to carry on a test on my car if you wish. I will head to your advice when you have the figures to prove otherwise.

Likewise, I can show you million other STOCK cars which pollute the environment more than maybe 5 cars put together without cat cons. Anyways, there is no point in arguing with people who think they could lecture the whole world (hiding behind their monitors) forgetting that they knowingly/unknowingly are harming the environment as well. So how many of drive tonga's or bullock carts? Last I heard any engine produces harmful emissions that will harm the environment. Did you take a walk to work today? How many of us have given up smoking because its harmful to the environment and to others as well?

Oh, btw modding engines also increases the efficiency with which they burn the fuel. I have often seen water leaking out of the exhaust of my car and a couple of other cars as well. Go figure what it indicates. And do show me how many of our stock cars can manage that.

PS: Don't expect me to reply on this topic anymore.
All cars give out water modded or not. Agree with you that there are like a zillion vehicles (cars and buses!) which pollute the environment even more than those without a catcon.
BTW bullockcarts also pollute. Their engines are a rich source of methane which contribute to global warming.
rohan_fonseca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th September 2007, 20:07   #70
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 3,083
Thanked: 252 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
Well, I'd much appreciate it if you stopped using your car, in the same vein. Using a nice, clean local bus would do wonders. But, oh, do stop to check that the bus isn't belching out black smoke or pollutants. And ask the driver for the latest emission certificate.
That's 'below the belt'! There's no end to what all we can ALL stop using to be 'more green'.
anupmathur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th September 2007, 20:53   #71
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 3,083
Thanked: 252 Times
Default

mclaren ought to realize that that post about cars throwing out water from the tailpipe was indeed very rash. Powers of observation are severely limited. And then the arrogance - "Don't expect me to reply on this topic anymore". !!
Not a healthy spirit, Sir!
anupmathur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th September 2007, 23:26   #72
Senior - BHPian
 
v1p3r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: BLR - chasing cars...
Posts: 4,836
Thanked: 26 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
That's 'below the belt'! There's no end to what all we can ALL stop using to be 'more green'.
Why is it below the belt? To each his own. I don't go about preaching. If someone preaches, let him/her take such steps to ensure that his or her contribution to pollution is at a minimum.
v1p3r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th September 2007, 23:58   #73
Senior - BHPian
 
IronWolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Benga-loo-ru
Posts: 1,569
Thanked: 36 Times
Default

I opened this thread trying to see what kind of modifications lead to a bike being seized. What I see is a argument on Cat con?

IMO from what I have seen on Modded cars (friend's cars and Cousins E-Zen) They all passed emission tests without any issues.

The members who feel that removing a cat con is going to drill a hole in the ozone layer should do a little research. I understand that its against the RTO regulations and all, however it does not make any sense on beating on the guys with a FFE as the emission levels dont spike as much a moped / auto going on kerosene or that 15year old Govt dump truck which pumps out that thick black smoke.

I think we should just get back to the topic about that poor bike owner !! Or Mods change the topic wording
IronWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th September 2007, 00:02   #74
Senior - BHPian
 
v1p3r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: BLR - chasing cars...
Posts: 4,836
Thanked: 26 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronWolf View Post
IMO from what I have seen on Modded cars (friend's cars and Cousins E-Zen) They all passed emission tests without any issues.
This point has already been talked about. BTW stock E-Zen will have no issues, if it's just a swap, because the Esteem engine will still be stock.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronWolf View Post
The members who feel that removing a cat con is going to drill a hole in the ozone layer should do a little research. I understand that its against the RTO regulations and all, however it does not make any sense on beating on the guys with a FFE as the emission levels dont spike as much a moped / auto going on kerosene or that 15year old Govt dump truck which pumps out that thick black smoke.
Yes, but here people are more educated than the average moped/auto rider/driver/owner. You'd expect people with a higher level of education to show a higher level of civic-consciousness and responsibility.
v1p3r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th September 2007, 01:41   #75
Senior - BHPian
 
IronWolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Benga-loo-ru
Posts: 1,569
Thanked: 36 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
This point has already been talked about. BTW stock E-Zen will have no issues, if it's just a swap, because the Esteem engine will still be stock.
v1p3r.. comon man which E-Zen is running on a cat still? Cousin is running on on custom headers with FFE. <obviously> And he has a emission cert. that was my point.
IronWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Does more heavy mean more safe?? DCEite Technical Stuff 83 5th July 2008 14:16
Bike modifiers in Mumbai? turbo_v12 Modifications & Accessories 4 5th April 2005 00:32
What does it mean ? Technocrat Super-Cars & Imports in India 18 26th November 2004 18:45
R there any "NFS 5" fans out there!!! Shan2nu Shifting gears 71 16th May 2004 16:12


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 00:50.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks