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Old 12th April 2014, 12:18   #46
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Default Re: Cyrus Mistry looks to turn around Tata Motors

Tata have been there and done that!!

Its just a question of a good product backed by a stable ASC experience and they will be on a roll.

Zest and Bolt are capable game changers and Tata should now act and capitalise on this.

In corporate parlance, there is a beautiful understanding module which I am very fond of and try to cascade down my team members everytime:

L- Listen to your customer requirements/needs
I- Identify the key areas of improvement/grievance
S- Sympathise with them on grouse areas
T- Thank the customer
E-Empathy. Put yourself in the customer shoes
N- NOW ACT QUICKLY

Tata should also adopt this policy.

1) Identify the needs. Launch of their new products are a way to the right direction. Need of the hour- Sub 4 m sedan. They now have a solution other than the aging ECs.

2) Identify your grey areas. The ASC needs a rejig and quick. Address this.
3) Sympathasise and keep your customer engaged or like Bob Dylan croons-Keep your customer satisfied. Repeat business from existing customers are the most sure shot of all businesses.
4)Always keep the customer engaged, updated and thank him through a memorable experience and maybe small acts of kind gestures.
5) In case of issues with the product, resolution to the satisfaction of the customer is a priority. Ensure that he goes home happy.

6) MOST IMPORTANTLY, ACT. Cyrus has a daunting task. All Gyan and No kaam is not going to help Tata gain lost share.

A brainstorming with the key brass and critical dealers should now be on the cards.
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Old 12th April 2014, 14:07   #47
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Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
What volumes?
For a product to be a success, it has to meet volume, cost and selling price targets. That is the very definition of ‘cost effective’
Example from auto industry but of 2 wheelers, but could be correlated.
The initial Pulsar, when launched was making a loss. Bajaj was loosing ~250 Rs for each product sold. As the volumes grew, they started changing the strategy. They started to make some components in house, and they grew. They started making profit from a loss making product. Why? to gain market share initially, and then they changed the strategy.
The same is the case with some other models of theirs. Initially started at a loss/sold at manufacturing cost + few quid.

As per Definition, cost effective means, "producing optimum results for the expenditure;". If you always try to optimize your returns when your brand is not perceived well in the market, you need to take a detour and come back.

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That is not the job of the CEO. That’s the job of the styling chief.

The job of the CEO is to bring in the right people, motivate, delegate, track progress & ensure deliverables are met. If I had to sum it up in a word, he has to ‘lead’
How do you identify the right person? Just because he has a design degree, you don't hire him right.
When you go to market to buy a car, you validate the design as per your taste. How should a CEO be when he is making a car for a country? How should he validate to hire a car designer?

KIA Ceo might have liked the work/ability of schreyer. In order to understand that, the CEO must be open & understand his work. Not everyone understands the design.

Slym joined TM. What they made? re branded Indica's and Indigo's in the form of Zest and Bolt. Why not a redesign? Because, these were the inputs to Karl. Who gave those? you have the answer.

Quote:
Sorry you are not making sense. If demand drops & cars are gathering dust in the showrooms, the first & shot-term step is to cut production.
‘Improvising’ the design can take several months to year.
So, with this strategy, from the past One+ years, they have been loosing market share YOY. So they should keep cutting production.
Yes, because what all they make is rebranded indicas, so they will keep on loosing market share.
So, in the next one or two years, if they keep on marking to market, they should shut down the factories and stop producing. Is this what you are saying?
Or should they plan, think of alternatives and keep producing and keep selling is the strategy to be in business?

Ducatti Multistrada was made in 6 months.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ducati_V-twin_motorcycles
When your brand is dying, You don't have the privilege of working at your will. you need to act fast.

Quote:
Prototypes are hand made and cost millions & are used to gauge customer response to a particular 'styling direction.'

Secondly, they are meant to push the boundaries when it comes to technology, components & processes and are not always practical or ready for production
Would you please re read my post. I have asked to use the shell and use current proven engines. i don't think, it costs a bomb to use Prototype shells. As you said, it could be delivered in six months to an year. but did they do it is the question.

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Originally Posted by GrammarNazi View Post
$600 Million!? Thats ~2,800 Crore Indian Rupees just on the Aria. You're way off mark buddy. IIRC the WHOLE Pune plant cost TATA ~1200 crore to set-up.
Why today's dollar price to convert to rupees?
The total research cost, which started all the way in 2008, with a hefty R&D cost. A project which hardly generated money (Not profits, just money), cost of production + excessive inventory cost + marketing cost + Advertising cost + Employee Training + Selling at a discount or loss + re-branding + redesigning cost + interest on all these expenses for all these duration ~ 6 years + Expected profits + Loss of good will + Interest on the expected profit revenue.
Will the amount be constant or will it keep growing. with some regular accounting tweaks to save taxes, it would eventually reach this figure in books.

P.S.: I am not a hater of TM. I love TM. The way they made their entry to international auto. The way they transformed Telco to TM. They are amazing.
What bothers me, is the brand which earned money by selling passenger cars and bought JLR is struggling hard to sell cars. And the management is not working in the right direction to fix the same, despite having best infrastructure, funds, etc.

Earlier people agreed that XUV has niggles, and M&M tried to sort it out. Good. People bought XUV with closed eyes. Great.
Why don't people buy a Tata product in the same way? Why people buy Tata's when their only option is for a cheap product. Its the portfolio of the products which define a brand. I wanted them to do it properly.
Am i asking too much?

Last edited by gemi_kk : 12th April 2014 at 14:34. Reason: Adding value.
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Old 12th April 2014, 14:45   #48
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Default Re: Cyrus Mistry looks to turn around Tata Motors

Missed the 30 min mark to edit. so, another back to back post. Sorry.

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Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
Sorry you are not making sense. If demand drops & cars are gathering dust in the showrooms, the first & shot-term step is to cut production.
‘Improvising’ the design can take several months to year.
Sorry, you don't seem to be one of those, who tries to think out of the box. who can learn from history.

Based on the Ducatti Multistrada example and others, i can say that history has many such examples. And still there is enough room in it to for yours. But are you one of those who can look back and work hard and make a good product, which can give you a turn around?
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Old 12th April 2014, 15:40   #49
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Originally Posted by gemi_kk View Post
Slym joined TM. What they made? re branded Indica's and Indigo's in the form of Zest and Bolt. Why not a redesign? Because, these were the inputs to Karl. Who gave those? you have the answer.

Ducatti Multistrada was made in 6 months.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ducati_V-twin_motorcycles
When your brand is dying, You don't have the privilege of working at your will. you need to act fast.
With regards to the Bolt & the Zest, I think it is pretty obvious that what Tata needs is an entirely new platform, Tata has acknowledged that & is working towards it. In the short term while they are developing their next generation of cars they do need something to sell, hence the need to revamp existing products.

I would steer clear of comparing the development time & effort of a niche motorcycle & mass market car, that's exactly what the apples & oranges reference was designed for.
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Old 12th April 2014, 16:38   #50
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Originally Posted by gemi_kk View Post
...How do you identify the right person? Just because he has a design degree, you don't hire him right.
When you go to market to buy a car, you validate the design as per your taste.(!!!) How should a CEO be when he is making a car for a country? How should he validate to hire a car designer?

KIA Ceo might have liked the work/ability of schreyer. In order to understand that, the CEO must be open & understand his work. Not everyone understands the design.

Slym joined TM. What they made? re branded Indica's and Indigo's in the form of Zest and Bolt. Why not a redesign? Because, these were the inputs to Karl. Who gave those? you have the answer.
Theres something called "Market Research". In this day and age, I doubt any CEO solely relies on his own whims & fancies (or as you may call it, his 'instincts') anymore.

The final product decision is based on research. Yet, consumer sentiments are dynamic, and as mindsets & priorities evolve, very often the product doesn't appeal anymore to people. Or sometimes even become more appealing to more people than before!

I don't think you understand the ZEST & BOLT at all, else you would've realised how big a leap they are as products.
  • The design language of the Bolt/Zest is quite different from that of the Indica/Indigo.
  • The 1.2L Revotron is India's first in-house developed water-cooled Turbo-Petrol. 85bhp is one thing, but it develops a rather impressive 140NM of power, moreover TATA has tuned it for driveability by ensuring turbo-band starts from just 1750RPM and goes on all the way upto 3000RPM. Imagine the surge it'll deliver right through the turbo-band !
  • The Zest will also have the 1.3mjd tuned to 90PS (VGT). Given how light the car will be, just the power to weight ratio indicates how quick it'll possibly be.
  • TATA has introduced a Brushless EPS developed by (IIRC) ZF Steering, and they're taking inputs from Narayan Karthikeyan to tweak the way the steering responds to the driver.
  • They'll both be available with Magneti Marelli's AMT.
  • TATA's have NOT under-tyred these cars with 14" tyres, teh appropriate size of 15" tyres are going to be provided.
  • The interiors are second only to D segment German sedans
  • Every meeting Cyrus Mistry has with the 5 member core team, he's always focused on ways to ensure that the product quality isn't compromised & that the production starts by June so that they can take bookings by the festive season and deliver what they've set out to.
All these are just a few things that I can think of on the top of my mind and the feature-list shows about their serious attitude towards the product.

Quote:
...Why today's dollar price to convert to rupees?
The total research cost, which started all the way in 2008, with a hefty R&D cost. A project which hardly generated money (Not profits, just money), cost of production + excessive inventory cost + marketing cost + Advertising cost + Employee Training + Selling at a discount or loss + re-branding + redesigning cost + interest on all these expenses for all these duration ~ 6 years + Expected profits + Loss of good will + Interest on the expected profit revenue.
Will the amount be constant or will it keep growing. with some regular accounting tweaks to save taxes, it would eventually reach this figure in books.
I used ~47/$ as conversion rate, check your arithmetic.

I've nothing to say about how you justify/calculate the $600 million figure. To me, its doesn't look real from any angle. Anyway.

Quote:
P.S.: I am not a hater of TM. I love TM. The way they made their entry to international auto. The way they transformed Telco to TM. They are amazing.
What bothers me, is the brand which earned money by selling passenger cars and bought JLR is struggling hard to sell cars. And the management is not working in the right direction to fix the same, despite having best infrastructure, funds, etc.

Earlier people agreed that XUV has niggles, and M&M tried to sort it out. Good. People bought XUV with closed eyes. Great.
Why don't people buy a Tata product in the same way? Why people buy Tata's when their only option is for a cheap product. Its the portfolio of the products which define a brand. I wanted them to do it properly.
Am i asking too much?
Unless you're an investor (and this is NOT an investor forum), as a consumer I don't see why you'd need to bother about the 'number of cars' they sell. Unless you have a problem with how their products are branded, as a consumer I don't see any significant reason to specifically discuss the 'Number of units sold'.
Speak with Skoda/VW owners, are they any less proud of their purchase even though the sales aren't good? or even the horrible incidents people have narrated here.

IMO NO WAY its solely the portfolio of the products which define a brand. Portfolio infact often has little to do with the branding.
See Toyota for instance, they've just got 4 products, of which Innova is their mass-market product, still they're considered to be the company that makes the most reliable of cars.

NO. You're not asking too much. IMO many parts of what you're asking is not what a consumer would generally bother about.

Last edited by suhaas307 : 12th April 2014 at 19:09. Reason: as requested
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Old 12th April 2014, 17:11   #51
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Default Re: Cyrus Mistry looks to turn around Tata Motors

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Originally Posted by GrammarNazi View Post
...turbo-band starts from just 1750RPM and goes on all the way upto 3000RPM. Imagine the surge it'll deliver right through the turbo-band !...
I meant 3500RPM.

Req. to Mods :
Pls edit previous post & delete this one. Regards.
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Old 12th April 2014, 18:41   #52
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Default Re: Cyrus Mistry looks to turn around Tata Motors

Hi all, I seriously say that now it is high time for TATA to re-work on every aspect i.e every function, right from design, purchasing, manufacturing and sales, to help themselves bounce back strongly. It is important for them to revise their cost-structure which shall allow them to gain a competitive position in the market and helps them to grow profitably in a sustainable way.

Primarily, in the current scenario Tata Motors is facing a tough time due to the changing market. Therefore, it needs to focus on quality and enhancing the customer’s purchase experience of a Tata car.

Thanks

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Old 13th April 2014, 00:02   #53
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Originally Posted by GrammarNazi View Post
Theres something called "Market Research". In this day and age, I doubt any CEO solely relies on his own whims & fancies (or as you may call it, his 'instincts') anymore.
Even in order to do this, you need to have some parameters, based on which you need to evaluate.
Companies like Apple still hand picks people. Now you say, no one does it now a days. Strange.

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I don't think you understand the ZEST & BOLT at all, else you would've realised how big a leap they are as products.[list][*]The design language of the Bolt/Zest is quite different from that of the Indica/Indigo.
Yeah.. rebadged Indica and indigo. with different headlights and different bumper. with some side lines on doors and boot.

Quote:
[*] The Zest will also have the 1.3mjd tuned to 90PS (VGT). Given how light the car will be, just the power to weight ratio indicates how quick it'll possibly be.
WOW.. Specs seem to be something from an outside world, which market hasn't seen or heard of till date. Tata indica lite.
The same is the case with petrol engine. See its thread to understand better.

Quote:
[*] TATA has introduced a Brushless EPS developed by (IIRC) ZF Steering, and they're taking inputs from Narayan Karthikeyan to tweak the way the steering responds to the driver.[*]They'll both be available with Magneti Marelli's AMT.[*] TATA's have NOT under-tyred these cars with 14" tyres, teh appropriate size of 15" tyres are going to be provided.
No customer is interested in these.

Quote:
I used ~47/$ as conversion rate, check your arithmetic.
Oops.. my bad. Should have used the calc.

Quote:
Unless you're an investor (and this is NOT an investor forum), as a consumer I don't see why you'd need to bother about the 'number of cars' they sell. Unless you have a problem with how their products are branded, as a consumer I don't see any significant reason to specifically discuss the 'Number of units sold'.
If i am bothered about a company, i am bothered about its volumes.
They are not Ferrari/Bugati to say that we don't rely on volumes.
You are discussing in Tata's turn around thread. which means back in business and you don't mean volumes for Tata's turnaround?

Quote:
Speak with Skoda/VW owners, are they any less proud of their purchase even though the sales aren't good? or even the horrible incidents people have narrated here.
But the brand is bleeding. This thread is about Tata's Turnaround. So constructive arguments towards company's growth are required. Not ownership experiences.
And they are Germans, renowned for making Extraordinary products, which are poorly supported. Benchmarks in engineering.

Quote:
See Toyota for instance, they've just got 4 products, of which Innova is their mass-market product, still they're considered to be the company that makes the most reliable of cars.
No matter how good bajaj makes a product, it is still considered miles behind the bench mark, Yamaha.
No matter how good Tata makes their products, still they are considered behind toyota in reliability.
The benchmark perception is something which a brand needs to earn and retain in the market. Toyota did it. I prefer not to comment about Tata here.

Quote:
NO. You're not asking too much. IMO many parts of what you're asking is not what a consumer would generally bother about.
Let the zest and bolt launch. Only the sales numbers will say.
What can they dethrone in the current scenario, Amaze? Xcent? Dzire? City? I20 Petrol? These are current market benchmarks in sales, which hardly saw a declining sales numbers. [unless the whole industry was down or there was some strike]
In your basic turbo petrol segment, Swift, I10, I10 grand, Polo & its turbo version, cant think more. tired.

Last edited by gemi_kk : 13th April 2014 at 00:06. Reason: correcting a spell mistake.
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Old 13th April 2014, 12:51   #54
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Default Re: Cyrus Mistry looks to turn around Tata Motors

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Originally Posted by GrammarNazi View Post
....
  • The Zest will also have the 1.3mjd tuned to 90PS (VGT). Given how light the car will be, just the power to weight ratio indicates how quick it'll possibly be.
  • The interiors are second only to D segment German sedans...
Are you sure about these two points? From what I read, Zest will have the 1.3L 75 PS FGT variant and NOT the 90 PS VGT. And the interior quality that brilliant for a sub 8L price? Are we really expecting it? I would be happy if its actually in between Dzire & Xcent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gemi_kk View Post
...Yeah.. rebadged Indica and indigo. with different headlights and different bumper. with some side lines on doors and boot...
I doubt how many common men are going to really find Zest similar to Indigo. For a short term goal, even the Bolt looks refreshing and distinct from a Vista. And these two cars have massively impressed the very choosy bhp'ians, so why NOT the common people.

And "re-badged indica"?? Could you really point down where exactly do you see a similarity between Indica / Vista & Bolt? Sadly you seem to be bothered ONLY about the side profile (of the Bolt) where you can somehow compare to an Indica desperately.

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Originally Posted by gemi_kk View Post
...WOW.. Specs seem to be something from an outside world, which market hasn't seen or heard of till date. Tata indica lite. ...
Why? With TATA, has it to be out of the world? Dzire should be the all-round bench mark here. Amaze has crappy interiors & Xcent has an average engine. If Zest has the engine as Dzire, space similar to Amaze, quality better than Dzire and FE of 22 kmpl, I do NOT find a reason to complain. In fact, I would pick it over Dzire, if similar reliability levels can be offered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gemi_kk View Post
... Let the zest and bolt launch. Only the sales numbers will say.
What can they dethrone in the current scenario, Amaze? Xcent? Dzire? City? I20 Petrol? ...
To start with, I'll be personally happy if these two cars garner 75% of the numbers of # 2 performers in respective segments. That will give everyone a perspective of what worked for TATA and where do they need to improve. TATA need NOT aim at dethroning the segment best and dream of the hot spot. A gradual & steady growth to the No # 3 position from the current status itself will prove their worth.

Last edited by swiftnfurious : 13th April 2014 at 12:56.
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Old 13th April 2014, 14:38   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gemi_kk View Post
...Yeah.. rebadged Indica and indigo. with different headlights and different bumper. with some side lines on doors and boot...
WOW.. Specs seem to be something from an outside world, which market hasn't seen or heard of till date. Tata indica lite.
The same is the case with petrol engine. See its thread to understand better.
Quote:
No customer is interested in these....
Oh really? Anyway. Doesn't look like you're even interested to try and understand with a neutral mindset.

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Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
Are you sure about these two points? From what I read, Zest will have the 1.3L 75 PS FGT variant and NOT the 90 PS VGT. And the interior quality that brilliant for a sub 8L price? Are we really expecting it? I would be happy if its actually in between Dzire & Xcent.
The Specs :

Diesel Specs (all have Fiat's 1.3mjd) : Zest 90PS & Bolt 75PS.
Whatever little I can guess, the diesel Bolt may be ~8L & Zest could be ~8.5-9L Ex-SR.

Not only interior quality, even mechanically they don't seem to have compromised on anything.
For example, tyres for the Bolt will be 15" and Zest 16".
Quote:
...Dzire should be the all-round bench mark here. Amaze has crappy interiors & Xcent has an average engine. If Zest has the engine as Dzire, space similar to Amaze, quality better than Dzire and FE of 22 kmpl, I do NOT find a reason to complain. In fact, I would pick it over Dzire, if similar reliability levels can be offered.
Swift/Dzire/Bolt (75PS) or Zest(90PS) have the same 1.3mjd, TATA seems to be tuning them for driveability.
  • Space I dunno but interior looks & equipment we've all seen are really good.
  • Quality, they're committing they'll do it better. The company is in trouble so I'm kindof sure they'll keep up the commitment.
  • They'll need to provide good warranty to woo customers who're on the fence. Hope they don't bother wooing these hecklers.
  • They usually provide attractive AMC packages.
These things should help us get confidence about their product. Just got to actually drive it now.

Quote:
To start with, I'll be personally happy if these two cars garner 75% of the numbers of # 2 performers in respective segments. That will give everyone a perspective of what worked for TATA and where do they need to improve. TATA need NOT aim at dethroning the segment best and dream of the hot spot. A gradual & steady growth to the No # 3 position from the current status itself will prove their worth.
AFAIK They're trying just that, to be a strong No.2 or No.3 in the market.

Last edited by GrammarNazi : 13th April 2014 at 14:42.
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Old 13th April 2014, 17:54   #56
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Oh really? Anyway. Doesn't look like you're even interested to try and understand with a neutral mindset.


AFAIK They're trying just that, to be a strong No.2 or No.3 in the market.
Man, the closed mindedness (based on the debased currency of 'common' word-of-ignorant-mouth sense) about Tata Motors that you have rightly bemoaned is a symptom!

Since it is only a minor instance of a larger malaise in Indian public culture as a whole, well beyond the car market, there doesn't appear to be any further point in trying to persuade or reason with the "hecklers" as you aptly labelled them.

Neither should Tata motors bother to.
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Old 14th April 2014, 01:28   #57
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Default Re: Cyrus Mistry looks to turn around Tata Motors

I wish Cyrus Mistry good luck in his efforts, but he needs to quickly find a suitable CEO - someone who can execute the plans put in place by Karl Slym and take it forward from there. As the Chairman of Tata Sons, Mr. Mistry has to look after all Tata companies and may not be able to devote all his time for Tata Motors alone. A CEO from the automobile industry i.e. "a car guy" (or girl) is the need of the hour for Tata Motors.

Tata have a huge task ahead of them just to maintain their current monthly sales numbers and hold on to the fifth spot on the sales chart. As a company, Tata Motors has almost fallen off the radar of private car buyers, and it's not going to be easy to bring them back into the fold.

Just consider these numbers I managed to get from another forum:

For the month of January 2014, sales of Indigo + Manza was 2293 units. The break-up is as follows - the Indigo sold 2271 units and the Manza did 22 units.

In the same month, sales of Indica + Vista was 3920 numbers. Of which, the Indica constituted 3920 units and the Vista managed 0 units (yes, that is a zero).

Now we all know that these are the factory dispatches, so it's possible that Tata cut the production of the Vista & Manza in January 2014 to adjust for huge excess inventory held by the dealers, especially considering the Bolt & Zest are not too far away. Still it goes to show that private buyers are generally staying away from Tata Motors for some reason or the other. The Zest and Bolt have their task cut out in attracting them back to the fold.

I posted these numbers only because I came across them elsewhere, and we had no idea of the sales break-up for the Indica & Vista and Indigo & Manza, because Tata does not share them. So don't shoot the messenger.

Last edited by RSR : 14th April 2014 at 01:36.
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Old 14th April 2014, 10:27   #58
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Default Re: Cyrus Mistry looks to turn around Tata Motors

Let me not add to the bashing done here But product wise, Tata needn't offer a long list of features and fancies. However the need of the hour is a niggle free car. For a manufacturing cost of say 5L as an example, we cant just expect everything to be there. That is what they are doing. Try to offer just everything in the car, to build up a feature list and claim that the competition doesn't offer it. in that process, the vendors will be made to manufacture parts at very low prices, which will automatically lead to compromises on quality. Whoever has a Tata in my family, including the Manza and Vista, complain about needing to replace parts every now and then like the switchgear, headlamp assemblies, instrument cluster etc around the 50k kms mark since they started failing one by one. While some were promptly covered under warranty, the ones who didnt have warranty had a tough time, with a hole in the pocket.

Now, Maruti offer barebone features. They took a long time to even offer an MID in the swift. Even today it lacks Bluetooth audio. Yet the parts are reliable. So, its fine if TATA won't offer a bag of featires. What they offer must be of good quality.

Give us a single barrel headlamp, but one that doesn't fade, or whose bulb shield doesn't break off and throws itself around the assembly.

Offer a simple instrument cluster, but one whose backlight wont dim out with time.

These are a few of the issues which I have observed in their cars. I am afraid the same trend might continue with the zest and bolt, since they have even more features, perhaps at a competitive price. Combined with the new engine, I am sceptical about the way its priced.
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Old 14th April 2014, 12:07   #59
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Default Re: Cyrus Mistry looks to turn around Tata Motors

As I was reading through the threads here, some folks raised the question on why we are bashing Tata and theorized that this could be a herd mentality. Also, one person went on to mention that their products are "good enough" products and hence we should give them a chance. It infuriates me that people who defend Tata always accuse others of being in a herd or following the crowd. For you, here's my story.

I was among the guinea pigs when Indica V2 was launched. I was in the US, wanted to buy the family in India a car. TI was not earning well but the Ambassador was aging, the family needed a car and I had only limited money. The Indica was a good choice. Three days after the car got delivered, the AC knob broke. When we asked the service center for a new knob, we were told that we had to replace the entire fascia. Two days later, the front passenger handle (right above the door) broke. 1 week later, the wiper started squeaking. 6 months on, one headlight became opaque. Now remember, I pretty much slogged like crazy, saved up some dollars and got this car as a present for my family. I was driving a 88 Camry at that point. Imagine my horror, when I call home every weekend and I get reports of something or another breaking. The nearest service center was 75kms away. So, we lived with it.

Now, tell me. This was a moment of pride to show everyone that we have had some success in life. That's what a car stands for in most Indian households. It's a status symbol, an object of pride and affection that continues to be even today. When people got into the car for a ride in the first week, you could see the quiet amusement in some people's faces, I'd believe.

Now tell me that I should still admire a brand that completely let me down, took my hard earned money and sold a shoddy product. Tell me that I should admire a company where I should beg, yes, literally beg, Tata for a solution to the headlights which never came. Tell me I should admire a company where the act of acknowledgement was itself by the mercy of a guy in overalls and not by anyone else.

I can go on about the Fiat experience which Tata delivered in Bangalore of all places but I won't go there. Because, it just escapes words.

So, now you have it. I'd drop kick Tata cars over a cliff in an instant. I've stopped caring. They want me? They can go ahead and make a product that won't embarass me in front of my family and friends. Yes, that's a vague requirement. But, that's all I'll give them. Yes, my experience maybe unique. But nevertheless, its my experience and I am not going to change my mind. Call me a part of a herd. Yes, because that's how much all of us in the herd have been insulted and degraded. T

hird class car builders with a slimy dealership and service network. That's exactly how I'll describe them.
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Old 14th April 2014, 13:31   #60
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Default Re: Cyrus Mistry looks to turn around Tata Motors

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
Give us a single barrel headlamp, but one that doesn't fade, or whose bulb shield doesn't break off and throws itself around the assembly.

Offer a simple instrument cluster, but one whose backlight wont dim out with time.

These are a few of the issues which I have observed in their cars. I am afraid the same trend might continue with the zest and bolt, since they have even more features, perhaps at a competitive price.
I hope they have already worked on your issues. Remember the number of times, the late Karl made statements in media that they are working on Quality issues. He talked to suppliers and worked hard to improvise quality. so, i think we can deduce that, During his stint with TM, he mostly worked on fixing quality issues and partly on some up gradations.

[Slightly OT]
Lets see how indian auto made progress in the past decade,

Maruti Launched - Alto, Alto new [800,1000], Swift, Dzire (2 versions), Ertiga, Ritz, Celerio, Sx4, YL1 and others in pipeline, K10, MJD, new diesel, entry to UV's + Refreshed products at appropriate time intervals

Hyundai Launched - I10, I20, Verna, Xcent, Eon, Elantra, Santafe, Tucson, New diesel engines, new petrol engines, etc + Refreshed products at appropriate time intervals

Honda Launched - Amaze, Brio, City Diesel, SUV, Mobilio in Pipeline, All new diesels, modified petrol engines, etc + Refreshed products at appropriate time intervals

Mahindra Launched - Xuv, Xylo, Xylo short , Verito, Logan, Verito Vibe, Scorpio + Refreshed products at appropriate time intervals.

The Great Tata Launched - Nano, Indica & Indigo refreshments only. [Only In the car segment. And excluding JLR]

How did they Do it?
Outer shell - Designed by Italians [In 1998]. Source wiki.
Engines - TDI from VW group.
- Failed CR4, which was made in house.
- MJD from FIAT
- Steering columns and others of Rack and pinion, and other vendors
- ABS and other electronics from Bosch/pd, etc.
- Headlights and others from Minda and other companies.
- The new AMT's from Magneti marelli, Aka Fiat.
The vista might be a all new product, but looks wise, its similar, so excluded.
And still people think they are going great guns with their portfolio.
And still people just expect quality products from them. Nothing else.
And still there is no news from them on new designs, Entries into new segments.
And still people think "We are expecting too much from them."
And still, Tata never tries to leverage its advantages of being indian.

I feel really sad to see how the great Indian automotive company Tata is working hard just to be back in business. They made us proud with JLR deal. And now they seem to be working hard to kill the name. What we have are few Automobile companies which made us proud and now they are not working to keep up with the market pace.
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