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Old 15th April 2014, 13:59   #31
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Default Re: Shocking! Toyota India admits defeat in the small car segment

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Originally Posted by swiftnfurious View Post
Just some design changes and a sensible & sensitive price correction can resurrect these cars.
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Originally Posted by roshan_cruise View Post
Toyota already has a hatchback\compact sedan out here in UAE called "Yaris".
Toyota should have launched Yaris and sedan based on Yaris (called Vios) in India. They must have considered this option before doing Liva/Etios. But for whatever reason they didn't bring Yaris here then. They can consider that option now and focus on localization for reducing the cost of Yaris.

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Old 15th April 2014, 14:05   #32
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Default Re: Shocking! Toyota India admits defeat in the small car segment

The problem for Toyota is that you can't just sell cars on reliability alone these days. Atleast in the small hatch and entry level sedan segments in India reliability is a given. Thanks to Maruti and later Hyundai, people have already experienced reliable trouble free and cheap to run and own automobiles after coming from Fiat and Ambassador days. So when you are asking people to look away from a Maruti and buy a Toyota, you need to give them a good reason. Sadly there wasn't any.

I somehow feel that the Etios twins have diluted the Toyota brand in India. The 'premiumness' associated with the brand is gone. Cars like the Corolla are surely suffering because of this. I am sure people look at the Corolla as an oversized Etios rather than looking at the Etios as a mini Corolla.
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Old 15th April 2014, 14:14   #33
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Default Re: Shocking! Toyota India admits defeat in the small car segment

I think we should give them some credit. Acceptance is the first step towards change after all, When we have a lot of other carmakers still in denial, at least they have identified the problem. They just need to fix it.

I have a feeling they will come out with a more premium small car (i20/polo) segment that will be more suitable given their overheads. After all, Toyota has always chased profitablity, not volumes. If they wanted volumes, all they need to do is reintroduce the qualis
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Old 15th April 2014, 14:24   #34
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Default Re: Shocking! Toyota India admits defeat in the small car segment

Toyota's biggest mistake is that they tried to play the Maruti card of mediocrity. It is difficult to beat the market leader by aping it. I wonder Toyota thought that they could bring in any box with four wheels, put a T badge and expect Indians to buy it in droves.

Toyota got the drubbing they deserved.

And unluckily for them the premium sedan segment just dried up a few years ago. Honda gracefully killed their Civic. And the Toyota does not have a credible C segment sedan.

They are just left with a 10+ year old Innova which they are flogging again and again. With the new ultra-beautiful grille, that can send it directly to the weird and wacky mod jobs thread, I wonder any individual buyer would be buying it anymore.
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Old 15th April 2014, 14:53   #35
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Default Re: Shocking! Toyota India admits defeat in the small car segment

Surprised that they gave up so very quickly. Hopefully better sense prevails and they do not see it as a case of sour grapes. Etios & Liva are fine cars if they make a few changes to the interior. The mid life rejuvenation addressed the seats and few pain points like the ground clearance. Only if they changed the console positioning and improving the guage of metal used it will go a long way.
It is a well engineered car priced well but let down heavily by the interiors, lack of features & ride quality.
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Old 15th April 2014, 15:21   #36
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Default Re: Shocking! Toyota India admits defeat in the small car segment

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Toyota's biggest mistake is that they tried to play the Maruti card of mediocrity. It is difficult to beat the market leader by aping it.
I cannot agree more to this statement. Maruti has taken an average Indian for a ride and built its brand over many decades. Nobody can take that route and taste success in short term.

In my opinion, Toyota should have had a better looking car to command the premium they do. Etios looked like a cheap car from the word go (no offence to the owners). Performance and reliability are not the only drivers in the demography as diverse as India.

Rather than going the Maruti way, they should have taken a leaf out of Hyundai's book on how to first build the trust in the B segment market and then command the price premium.

Its only Maruti in the Indian market that will stick a couple of vinyls on the car, add a rally sports badge and sell the same car on a 30K premium and still find takers. And there are people who still think that their car is a sports version of the normal offering
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Old 15th April 2014, 15:22   #37
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Default Re: Shocking! Toyota India admits defeat in the small car segment

I think a lot of us missed the point. Toyota is NOT talking about the Etios / Liva brands. Even I thought so initially but below is an excerpt from the article. Looks like they are talking about a car in the Alto / Eon bracket.

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Mumbai: Toyota Kirloskar Motor Pvt. Ltd does not plan to enter India’s small car market and intends to focus on bigger cars, said Vikram Kirloskar, the company’s vice-chairman.
The small car market, consisting of models that cost less than Rs.4 lakh, accounts for 50% of the cars sold in the country but few manufacturers have been unable to enter this segment. The sub-Rs.4 lakh category includes cars such as Maruti Suzuki India Ltd’s Alto and WagonR, and Hyundai Motor India Ltd’s Eon and i10.
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
...The Grand i10 doesn't provide any less quality.
I was talking about the Toyota mechanical parts which help them keep their service costs low and helps the car run for decades. May be with those in perspective, Toyota may NOT be able to price a car to compete with the products under 4L.

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Originally Posted by msdivy View Post
Toyota should have launched Yaris and sedan based on Yaris (called Vios) in India. They must have considered this option before doing Liva/Etios. But for whatever reason they didn't bring Yaris here then. They can consider that option now and focus on localization for reducing the cost of Yaris.
I read that Toyota said the cars would be too pricey for Indian market. NOT really sure how do they arrive at it.
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Old 15th April 2014, 15:22   #38
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Default Re: Shocking! Toyota India admits defeat in the small car segment

Toyota should've seen this coming years ago and they're pretty late with their admission. I for one, am happy to be able to see this day and it serves them right for the second class treatment meted out to this market with their outdated products. I would rather they pack up and leave than dish out products from their decade old portfolio.

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I have been using the car for nearly 2 years 10 months with above 30,000kms on the odometer. The car till date is 100% reliable and fuss free.
So is my Suzuki Ertiga at 2.5 years and 50,000 kms later. 100% (literally, not a SINGLE breakdown) reliable and totally fuss free. What I'm trying to highlight is that Toyota alone cannot lay claim to this "reliability" USP in a market like India. All of the Japanese and Korean products are absolutely reliable and it makes no sense attributing this USP to Toyota alone. Those days are long gone.

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Originally Posted by amitayu View Post
What the T badge is famed for internationally is what Maruti has been giving Indian customers for years, viz, hassle free low maintenance driving experience.
Spot on! Their international repute has only led to arrogance and blind faith in a volatile market like India. Their arrogance has cost them dearly!
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Old 15th April 2014, 15:41   #39
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Default Re: Shocking! Toyota India admits defeat in the small car segment

Surprising, shocking and Ironic, given that Toyota knows how to crack the reliability game unlike any other (but is no longer the USP) and has a portfolio of small cars with Daihatsu. Why can't a simple rebadging be done here like the Dacia-Renault story?
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Old 15th April 2014, 15:44   #40
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Default Re: Shocking! Toyota India admits defeat in the small car segment

Such an irresponsible statement from a global manufacturer.

While the Innovas and Fortuners may be segment leaders today, it would be foolish of Toyota to plan for the Indian market with just these two cars. The upcoming Honda's mobilio in all probability will be a formidable competition to the Innova.
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Old 15th April 2014, 15:53   #41
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Default Re: Shocking! Toyota India admits defeat in the small car segment

What is so shocking, Isn't accepting ones weakness a path to success.

I am glad Toyota is moving away from this segment. This is such a highly competitive segment that it not possible for everyone to survive. More over I more like Toyota as the maker of high class Corollas and Camrys and Fortuners and OK also Innova's.

Toyota should seriously think of the 10 to 20 laks space in India, the only space which has lots of growth but no competition.

At least they are better off than VW and Skoda who are still beating at this segment not to mention Datsun who are trying to enter here.

Maruti and Hyundai are the champs of the less than 10 lac segment but ask anyone how most of their high end cars dont sell and it is the brand perception at play. Toyota sells it cars in these segments even though they dont look that good or are performance masters, just brand.
Imagine if they actually work a little bit hard and really bring good looking performance oriented products in the 10 + segment, overnight they will be kings.
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Old 15th April 2014, 16:12   #42
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Default Re: Shocking! Toyota India admits defeat in the small car segment

Well, that's very sad.
Toyota's efficiency in production + A good product + More than satisfying ASS is the only combination that can get anywhere close to Maruti Suzuki in India.
Why don't they get the vios(and yaris) and start going down categories level by level? It's the best way IMHO.
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Old 15th April 2014, 16:16   #43
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Default Re: Shocking! Toyota India admits defeat in the small car segment

Not enough profitability in the lower end with cut-throat pricing. Sill I will be sorry to see Toyota abandon it. Is is also due to Honda getting aggressive with Brio (and Amaze) variants?
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Old 15th April 2014, 16:33   #44
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Default Re: Shocking! Toyota India admits defeat in the small car segment

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Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
I don't understand why we title this as "Shocking". If you've screwed up, you've screwed and there is no harm in admitting this.
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Isnt he just stating the facts?
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Originally Posted by eq24 View Post
What is so shocking, Isn't accepting ones weakness a path to success.
If he was admitting a mistake, I'd be the first to clap.

Here however, he's admitting defeat. That is, surrendering the segment / stopping the fight! That is the part I find shocking...Toyota surrendering on a segment where manufacturing efficiency counts the most.

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Originally Posted by Ohh!Oxygen View Post
I really don't see what is wrong with Toyota's strategy. However the one thing that amuses me is our obsession to mass market cars.
Toyota is the largest manufacturer of cars in the world (well, No. 1 sometimes....No.2 sometimes). No one has a wider portfolio of products spanning hatchbacks, sedans, UVs etc. either. The mass market is Toyota, and Toyota is the mass market. Saying Toyota shouldn't bother with the mass market is akin to Mercedes not caring a damn about luxury.

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I am sure Toyota has a plan and they are known for their execution.
In India, Toyota is primarily a seller of utility vehicles. We've seen how the execution of the Liva / Etios panned out.

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I have never seen any manufacturer daring to kill a cashcow to make way for the other like they did with Qualis.
Several others have. E.g. Honda & the 1st & 2nd-gen City. Maruti also brought in the next-gen Swift & Dzire when the older gens were still best sellers.
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Old 15th April 2014, 16:51   #45
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Default Re: Shocking! Toyota India admits defeat in the small car segment

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Originally Posted by D4D View Post
Why don't they get the vios(and yaris) and start going down categories level by level? It's the best way IMHO.
+1 to that, am still wondering as to why was there a need to develop Etios when they already had the Vios? The pricing might have been around 10-15% more than the existing etios putting them directly in line with Vento/Rapid/City & Verna.
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