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Old 4th June 2015, 01:45   #226
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Default re: Maruti Celerio to get 800 cc diesel engine. EDIT: Now launched!

This thread has been reading just as expected !

When Beat had a 3 cylinder engine - it was called puny.
When Polo launched with a 3 cylinder engine - WOW it's a VW !

When Nano came with a 2 cylinder engine - "we want more power!"
When Nano thought of a 3 cylinder diesel engine borrowed from it's truck sibling - "ooh, how unrefined and poor imagination.

Now we have a 2 cylinder diesel engine, which is soon going to be used in a similar truck - WOW a new engine, with best average!

Reason - MARUTI. Simple.

&
what is this bias against Taxi drivers & Taxis ?

Taxi drivers will choose vehicles ONLY if it is fuel efficient, easy to maintain and decent to drive across all terrains and temperatures.

Along with the Indica, Indicab, eV2, Indigo -
Ritz, Swift Dzire, i10, Innova, Etios, Etios Liva, Logan, Tavera & even Skoda Rapid are being used as Taxis for both inter-city runs, as well as intra-city services.

Enthusiasm is great, being a car afficinado is nice!

But that just does not justify degrading someone else's profession and choice of livelihood.
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Old 4th June 2015, 02:12   #227
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Default re: Maruti Celerio to get 800 cc diesel engine. EDIT: Now launched!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sumeethaldankar View Post
This is the engine which has been targeted towards the mass market. Suddenly the common man could have a diesel engine which is the flavour of the market. If the price is sensitive then Maruti could take corrections. But writing it off just because it's a 2 cylinder and ridiculing it by comparing it to a autorickshaw is not fare to MS.
Sumeethaldankar sir, It is very clear that the engine is targeted towards the mass market. But that is not the problem. The problem is Celerio, which already was an over-priced car is being sold with a premium of ~75k for this puny 2 cylinder 800cc engine, which is not so great in any terms (based on the online reviews - yet to test drive) except FE.

The common man could have had the diesel engine much earlier with an Indica (which is actually cheaper), a Beat (almost the same price), Ritz (expensive only by a little) or Grand i10 (expensive by a lakh - but clearly a level above). If you are of the view that only Maruti can equip the common man with a diesel car, then I am wrong here.

Again, no one is writing off because it is a 2-cylinder engine, but the criticism is mainly because it is not a very powerful or torquey or technologically advanced engine. Let Maruti make a price correction and then it can probably become a VFM car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Suraj View Post
When Polo launched with a 3 cylinder engine - WOW it's a VW !

Now we have a 2 cylinder diesel engine, which is soon going to be used in a similar truck - WOW a new engine, with best average!

Reason - MARUTI. Simple.
No ways Dr. Suraj. Polo engine was always criticized for being noisy and overall for its poor NVH. It was a generation old engine and that was a widely accepted fact. Again, as a neutral forum, we hear both positives and negatives about the 2 cylinder DDiS here. I am pretty sure no one has gone real WOW here.
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Old 4th June 2015, 07:36   #228
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Default re: Maruti Celerio to get 800 cc diesel engine. EDIT: Now launched!

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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
Considering my current trouble with Grand i10
What did you mean?

My guess is you own a Grand i10. This car is at a higher price point and much better in every way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
Could be a volume grabber I can say from my today's feel.
Definitely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Suraj View Post
When Polo launched with a 3 cylinder engine - WOW it's a VW
I thought quite the opposite. Come to think of it, it was not as bad. Yes; it is noisy and won't be nominated as one of the refined diesels around. Drive one or observe the car move and it is far from bad. Provided you don't wring it, it will get the job done quite easily. Much like what the Celerio will surely achieve with its new diesel engine. What I can't digest is the price and that is the same thing I felt when VW were selling a 3 pot diesel in their little hatch.
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Old 4th June 2015, 07:55   #229
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Default re: Maruti Celerio to get 800 cc diesel engine. EDIT: Now launched!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sumeethaldankar View Post
This is the engine which has been targeted towards the mass market. Suddenly the common man could have a diesel engine which is the flavour of the market. If the price is sensitive then Maruti could take corrections. But writing it off just because it's a 2 cylinder and ridiculing it by comparing it to a autorickshaw is not fare to MS.
That's exactly the problem that most people have with both the engine & Maruti Suzuki. That they are taking the mass market for granted.

That is also the reason why a large number of people want the car to fail, so it hits home that there is only so far they can go selling us substandard products. Clearly this engine has NVH characteristics that are below what we have come to accept in passenger cars (before I get the usual bit about how I decided what we have come to expect, it was just a case historical data, just have a peek at any of the Nano review threads & you'll have the same conclusion).

That Suzuki is struggling with achieving acceptable levels of NVH characteristics in its diesel engine development is a known fact, which has resulted in the delay in the launch of the engine. Source: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post3716501 (Maruti Suzuki developing 1.5 & 1.6 Liter Diesel engines)

Would Suzuki risk an engine with poor NVH in say a Ciaz? Never, because they know that they could never get away with it, why sell it here, in the entry level segment? Just because you know you can get away with it?
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Old 4th June 2015, 07:55   #230
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Default re: Maruti Celerio to get 800 cc diesel engine. EDIT: Now launched!

I see a lot of comments about car being overpriced. MJD is a national engine with huge volumes. Celerio and Y9T are lower volume models. Obviously price would be higher. Development cost is never low for a new engine. The only advantage with this engine is weight control. It is only over a period of time this cost would reduce. Regarding royalty element of MJD, I do not think it was ever very high. This is because it was made as a part of FIAT, GM and Suzuki alliance with contributions from all parties.

Last edited by Carophilic : 4th June 2015 at 07:56.
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Old 4th June 2015, 08:07   #231
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Default re: Maruti Celerio to get 800 cc diesel engine. EDIT: Now launched!

Celerio sales never took off ( as per MSIL standards). The novely offered by this car was the AMT, and a large number of people boughtthe cheapest "automatic" car that too from the MSIL stable.

The Celerio is a rather plain looking car. With its high price I see it selling in moderate numbers and discounts appearing pretty soon. A rather disappointing effort by MSIL. There is also a growing number of people moving back to petrol ( refinement, lower purchase snd maintenance cost and environmental concerns) with the price difference between petrol and Diesel reducing significantly.

This car is a bit behind the curve.
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Old 4th June 2015, 10:16   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carophilic View Post
Celerio and Y9T are lower volume models. Obviously price would be higher. Development cost is never low for a new engine. The only advantage with this engine is weight control. It is only over a period of time this cost would reduce.
I would disagree to larger cost just because the engine is new. Take a look at nano for example.They had a new engine and it was still priced low.To me a nano makes more sense (except for the brakes) than a celerio diesel.If they price it below 4 lks on road then it will be VFM.As of now its overpriced.
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Old 4th June 2015, 10:16   #233
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Default re: Maruti Celerio to get 800 cc diesel engine. EDIT: Now launched!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Suraj View Post
This thread has been reading just as expected !

When Beat had a 3 cylinder engine - it was called puny.
When Polo launched with a 3 cylinder engine - WOW it's a VW !
Doc. This sentence really had spill my stomach with laugh.
This has brought my memories back when my cousin had bought VW polo. I had told him that it is bit noisy engine being 3 cylinder engine. He had shrug it off and said "It is VW!!"

IMO, I feel Celerio Diesel might have potential to fly off the shelf considering for its brand image as well as the Indian customer's affection towards the mileage factor.
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Old 4th June 2015, 10:54   #234
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I always felt the Celerio was way overpriced compared to its sibling WagonR. The sales figures proved my thoughts. Now IMO, Maruti is experimenting to create a big seller from this under performer rather than disturb it's best sellers like Alto and WR. If it's a success, the engine will find its way into the likes of Alto and WR. If not, it will have its LCV ready to use the engine, a risk free situation at both ends. Only problem is the ambitious/premium pricing for this crude (genset like) engine and our strong faith in its brand (I'm a Maruti owner since last 13 years).
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Old 4th June 2015, 11:26   #235
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Celerio is overpriced. Period. The new diesel variant affirms this point.
A little more money could get a better car such as Ritz.

Also, the upcoming Kite from Tata Motors could be a potential competitor here. Taking forward the Horizonnext theme from the Zest and the Bolt, one can safely expect a much better package in Kite than the Celerio.

Along with the Zest Revotron, I also own a Swift VDi, but, still feel Celerio is overly priced. Maruti just playing it on the aam junta!
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Old 4th June 2015, 11:35   #236
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Default re: Maruti Celerio to get 800 cc diesel engine. EDIT: Now launched!

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Originally Posted by balajisv View Post
Celerio is overpriced. Period. The new diesel variant affirms this point.
A little more money could get a better car such as Ritz.

Also, the upcoming Kite from Tata Motors could be a potential competitor here. Taking forward the Horizonnext theme from the Zest and the Bolt, one can safely expect a much better package in Kite than the Celerio.

Along with the Zest Revotron, I also own a Swift VDi, but, still feel Celerio is overly priced. Maruti just playing it on the aam junta!
Zest and Bolt will be buried soon with the addition of AMT to the Dzire. For a little more money one can buy any car they want. But that little more money is the issue here.

For under 7L on-road Chennai, one can get a Diesel car with minimum of two airbags+ABS from Maruti. That is an enticing prospect.

For those saying, it will sell well because its a Maruti; I can only say that the name has to be earned. If people buy it just because its a Maruti, it shows the work done by the company in winning over the customers. Nothing is stopping other manufacturers from doing the same. Until then, Maruti will reign supreme.
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Old 4th June 2015, 11:42   #237
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Default re: Maruti Celerio to get 800 cc diesel engine. EDIT: Now launched!

I feel this has been launched with one eye on the burgeoning taxi segment; with every tom, dick, harry and their respective uncles hopping behind the wheel and signing up with the olas and the ubers, a maruti small car with a small diesel mill will be an enticing value proposition
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Old 4th June 2015, 11:55   #238
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Default re: Maruti Celerio to get 800 cc diesel engine. EDIT: Now launched!

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say this car won't do well for Maruti. They should have launched this on the Alto ! The Celerio is in a higher segment and I'm sure people today are more informed and will look at options before spending 6-7L for a 2 cyl. diesel engine !!

When Maruti started talking to suppliers for this engine, they only spoke of an LCV. It looks like a late decision to put it in their cars, since the LCV launch is delayed.

Last edited by fiat_tarun : 4th June 2015 at 12:07.
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Old 4th June 2015, 13:23   #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SchumiFan View Post
Zest and Bolt will be buried soon with the addition of AMT to the Dzire. For a little more money one can buy any car they want.
The point is not about who will bury whom!
It's to see what the customer is offered in a product and the value derived.
Competition is healthy in a market!

If I'm in the market today to buy a diesel hatch, I will invest 50-60K more and buy a much more refined and powerful Ritz or wait for Kite and then make a decision.

Last edited by balajisv : 4th June 2015 at 13:24.
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Old 4th June 2015, 13:32   #240
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Default re: Maruti Celerio to get 800 cc diesel engine. EDIT: Now launched!

Quote:
Originally Posted by balajisv View Post
The point is not about who will bury whom!
It's to see what the customer is offered in a product and the value derived.
Competition is healthy in a market!

If I'm in the market today to buy a diesel hatch, I will invest 50-60K more and buy a much more refined and powerful Ritz or wait for Kite and then make a decision.
If you have 50-60K more, why even look at the Celerio? One can directly look at the Ritz and buy the car in the color they want I suppose?

This is low cost alternative to those who want a Diesel powered car with reasonable amount of sophistication. It is cheaper than the Beat by 40-50K and when buying a car for 5-6L, 10% of the total value is a big number.

Those who have money to spare wouldn't even be looking at this car in the first place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by praveen_n View Post
With all due respect , a car which costs 10 % cheaper does not mean you plonk a 2 cylinder engine to the car .

But I have to agree with you on one part here .The common man does not care about what engine configuration it is or how much loud the engine is as long as its a maruti. Everyone starts complaining when a brand like TATA comes out with a 2 cylinder saying that its an auto but the same norm is fine if it comes in a maruti.
I am not saying celerio diesel is bad .. but its not worth for the price that you pay.
So 3 cylinders is OK now? Nano probably got the stick because it sounded crude for a Petrol engine. This is a Diesel we are talking about.

No matter how much refinement a manufacturer does, it cannot negate the underlying factor that its a diesel engine. As shown by another BHPian earlier, it seems reasonable inside the cabin and shouldn't be an issue to buyers who want a Maruti Diesel with a superb mileage.

After all the Germans are no better when it comes to crude sounding diesels

Last edited by SchumiFan : 4th June 2015 at 14:02.
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