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Old 22nd June 2015, 17:23   #286
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Default Re: Maruti Celerio to get 800 cc diesel engine. EDIT: Now launched!

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Originally Posted by GrammarNazi View Post
Came across that at the website of a Dealer. Provided link & screenshot in that post too.

I just noticed that the price is Ex-Showroom same as mentioned in the official TATA Motors website, hence it doesn't seem that the dealer has not updated his website. (Especially since even Safari Storme, ARIA & GenX Nano have the updated info).
That must be a simple error on that dealer's website. Other dealer websites including that of Concorde (Tata's own multi-city dealership network) have the accurate feature list, confirming that the Indica eV2 gets neither ABS nor airbags.

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Originally Posted by GrammarNazi View Post
Coming back to topic, even in that case, cheaper (and decently refined) alternatives are present.
I understand this is a response to a comment that wasn't posted by me, but I still don't see the cheaper alternatives.

More refined three-pot & four-pot alternatives may be present, but they aren't as inexpensive.

If anyone wants to buy a diesel car with either a driver airbag or two airbags & ABS, then the Celerio ZDi & ZDi(O) happen to be the least expensive options out there.

I must mention that I don't support Maruti Suzuki's decision to equip the Celerio with a two-pot 0.8 litre diesel motor and price it at a 75,000 rupee premium over its petrol counterpart.

However, from a safety point of view, I'll hand it to them for bringing a diesel car with a driver airbag (and 2 airbags & ABS) within the reach of more folks who are on a tight budget. They've done this by lowering the entry price for a diesel car with the aforementioned safety features.

Last edited by RSR : 22nd June 2015 at 17:44.
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Old 22nd June 2015, 19:54   #287
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Default Re: Maruti Celerio to get 800 cc diesel engine. EDIT: Now launched!

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...If anyone wants to buy a diesel car with either a driver airbag or two airbags & ABS, then the Celerio ZDi & ZDi(O) happen to be the least expensive options out there....
Yeah, factually true. Though theres little use of records IMO.

Like Nano too was "the least expensive" in a certain segment, yet people didn't like it. (Back then it wasn't like brand TATA had 0 recall.)

Quote:
... However, from a safety point of view, I'll hand it to them for bringing a diesel car with a driver airbag (and 2 airbags & ABS) within the reach of more folks who are on a tight budget. They've done this by lowering the entry price for a diesel car with the aforementioned safety features.
Yet, even MOST optimistically, its a shocking trade-off.

Compared to the competition (IMO the eV2), Celerio's got just 2/3rd the power (47PS vs 70PS) and peak torque of 125NM is at 2000RPM vs 140NM of torque is available all across 1800-3000RPM.

A conservative view would give considerable benefit of doubt to the opinion that Maruti, a company that holds the goodwill among the masses, has not made an effort to reach to them.

Last edited by GrammarNazi : 22nd June 2015 at 19:55.
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Old 22nd June 2015, 22:15   #288
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Default Re: Maruti Celerio to get 800 cc diesel engine. EDIT: Now launched!

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Originally Posted by GrammarNazi View Post
Yeah, factually true. Though theres little use of records IMO.
It's less about the records, and more about making something affordable to more people, just like the Tata Nano.

In the diesel Celerio's case, it makes a diesel car with airbag(s) (& ABS) affordable to more people.

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Originally Posted by GrammarNazi View Post
Like Nano too was "the least expensive" in a certain segment, yet people didn't like it. (Back then it wasn't like brand TATA had 0 recall.)
Precisely. Despite the blind haters, there exists a market for the Nano.

There may be a similar market that Maruti Suzuki is trying to tap with the Celerio DDiS.

If there are people who like the two-pot petrol Nano because it fulfills their needs perfectly, there will be people who like the two-pot diesel Celerio for exactly the same reason.

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Originally Posted by GrammarNazi View Post
Yet, even MOST optimistically, its a shocking trade-off.

Compared to the competition (IMO the eV2), Celerio's got just 2/3rd the power (47PS vs 70PS) and peak torque of 125NM is at 2000RPM vs 140NM of torque is available all across 1800-3000RPM.
Sure, the eV2 has got a bigger four-pot engine with a better output.

Yet, it's not going to be considered by someone who needs at least a driver airbag, or by someone who needs 2 airbags & ABS. For such customers, the eV2 takes itself out of contention against the Celerio ZDi & ZDi(O).

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Originally Posted by GrammarNazi View Post
A conservative view would give considerable benefit of doubt to the opinion that Maruti, a company that holds the goodwill among the masses, has not made an effort to reach to them.
Then let the masses who have goodwill for Maruti Suzuki decide this car's fate!

If the company has reached out to a segment that was untapped previously, then the car will succeed. Otherwise it won't.

Last edited by RSR : 22nd June 2015 at 22:22.
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Old 22nd June 2015, 22:36   #289
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Default Re: Maruti Celerio to get 800 cc diesel engine. EDIT: Now launched!

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...In the diesel Celerio's case, it makes a diesel car with airbag(s) (& ABS) affordable to more people....
Exactly, but how many "more people" ?

Maruti has been a brand for the masses and has almost completely developed its brand to have a recall thats expected to appeal & cater to masses, not the niche market.

Is the average Maruti customer more Safety conscious than Mileage, Refinement & Reliability conscious?

Ofcourse, lets let the markets decide.

Regards


NB : I brought in reliability because I guessed that a new 2 pot diesel engine being ~1/2 the size of the competitors tried & tested CR4 workhorse, putting out 2/3rd of the power, could possibly have a chances of working optimally for a shorter duration due to the higher compression ratio.
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Old 22nd June 2015, 22:55   #290
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Default Re: Maruti Celerio to get 800 cc diesel engine. EDIT: Now launched!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSR View Post
.

Yet, it's not going to be considered by someone who needs at least a driver airbag, or by someone who needs 2 airbags & ABS. For such customers, the eV2 takes itself out of contention against the Celerio ZDi & ZDi(O).



Then let the masses who have goodwill for Maruti Suzuki decide this car's fate!

If the company has reached out to a segment that was untapped previously, then the car will succeed. Otherwise it won't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrammarNazi View Post
Exactly, but how many "more people" ?

Maruti has been a brand for the masses and has almost completely developed its brand to have a recall thats expected to appeal & cater to masses, not the niche market.

Is the average Maruti customer more Safety conscious than Mileage, Refinement & Reliability .
While you people here are debating about Why and why not a certain customer will buy the Celerio, or why they can choose the indica, MSIL can back on this product for the semi urban and rural markets. Generally the type of people here buy cars completely based on word of mouth. You don't even have to show a demo car to them, forget offer a test drive. All it takes is one car in town to make the whole town talking about it. And two words - Diesel and mileage will get enough walk ins to the showroom. That is the target customer this car is built for. If one thinks of MSILs perception in the market and the kind of blind faith people can rest upon it, this product in no way will be a flop show.

I don't think people still buy an indica or indigo for personal use, do they? The brand has lost any repute it had and the latest CR engines don't have a good feedback either. Enquire with any taxi guy. That's what word of mouth does to rather decent cars.
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Old 23rd June 2015, 11:43   #291
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Default Re: Maruti Celerio to get 800 cc diesel engine. EDIT: Now launched!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrammarNazi View Post
NB : I brought in reliability because I guessed that a new 2 pot diesel engine being ~1/2 the size of the competitors tried & tested CR4 workhorse, putting out 2/3rd of the power, could possibly have a chances of working optimally for a shorter duration due to the higher compression ratio.
If the CR4 engine is that good, why it is selling just 2-3K in number?
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Old 23rd June 2015, 11:44   #292
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Default Re: Maruti Celerio to get 800 cc diesel engine. EDIT: Now launched!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrammarNazi View Post
Exactly, but how many "more people" ?

Maruti has been a brand for the masses and has almost completely developed its brand to have a recall thats expected to appeal & cater to masses, not the niche market.
They're catering only to the masses with the Celerio diesel, and not some niche market.

To be more precise, they're catering to that section of the masses who want or need an inexpensive, extremely frugal diesel car with modern safety features such as airbags and ABS. The ZDi is cheaper by ~ 40k rupees than the next diesel car with a driver airbag, and the ZDi(O) is cheaper by ~ 60k rupees than the next diesel car with 2 airbags & ABS (both ex-showroom).

Even if they were catering to some niche market, why shouldn't they? Is there any rule that manufacturers who cater to the masses shouldn't cater to niche segments??

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Originally Posted by GrammarNazi View Post
Is the average Maruti customer more Safety conscious than Mileage, Refinement & Reliability conscious?
It doesn't matter to me what the "average Maruti customer" looks for in a car.

What does matter to me is that Maruti Suzuki have made diesel cars with safety features available to more people (who couldn't afford it before), whether they are Maruti customers or not. This is praiseworthy.

It's not Maruti Suzuki's fault if a competing product doesn't offer airbag(s) & ABS. They cannot be held responsible for the self-goals scored by competing manufacturers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrammarNazi View Post
Ofcourse, lets let the markets decide.

Regards
Yeah, the market will decide the fate of this car. We know how many petrol Celerios have been sold in the past months from the monthly sales threads. From the sales numbers of the Celerio over the coming months, we can know whether the diesel Celerio has managed to succeed in the market or not.

Regards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioholic View Post
While you people here are debating about Why and why not a certain customer will buy the Celerio, or why they can choose the indica, MSIL can back on this product for the semi urban and rural markets.

That is the target customer this car is built for. If one thinks of MSILs perception in the market and the kind of blind faith people can rest upon it, this product in no way will be a flop show.

I don't think people still buy an indica or indigo for personal use, do they? The brand has lost any repute it had and the latest CR engines don't have a good feedback either. Enquire with any taxi guy. That's what word of mouth does to rather decent cars.
That's a very valid point. They may be banking on their extensive sales network outside the big cities to push this car.

In case they aren't able to attract too many urban buyers, they also have the option of promoting the car among taxi operators. With app-based city taxi services becoming extremely popular by the day, there may be a big market for extremely frugal, entry-level diesel cars.

Maruti Suzuki are already very successful in the yellow board segment with cars like the DZire Tour, Eeco and Omni. Competitors will surely feel the heat if Celerio DDiS makes its debut in the city cab segment.

Last edited by RSR : 23rd June 2015 at 11:59.
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Old 23rd June 2015, 13:46   #293
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Default Re: Maruti Celerio to get 800 cc diesel engine. EDIT: Now launched!

Amidst all discussions, the very first proper review of Celerio diesel is out on Overdrive. I wonder why it took such a long time.



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Last edited by Leoshashi : 23rd June 2015 at 13:50.
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Old 24th June 2015, 02:10   #294
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Default Re: Maruti Celerio to get 800 cc diesel engine. EDIT: Now launched!

Mod Note:

Our Celerio Diesel Review has been taken live at this link (Maruti Celerio Diesel : Official Review).

Please continue the discussion on the new thread. Thanks!

Last edited by Rehaan : 24th June 2015 at 02:12.
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