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Old 25th May 2014, 13:11   #46
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Default Re: What is Toyota playing?

I think that we should not pass the final judgement on a car even before it is out for public sale :-). The pictures may not be showing the real look and feel of the new Corolla. As some of the members who have already mentioned, the car's interior in person looks like a premium one.

Coming to the fun factor of the engines when compared to the Europeans, what good is the advanced technology and mechanics in the European engines for if it has to compromise on its reliability?
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Old 25th May 2014, 13:29   #47
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Default Re: What is Toyota playing?

You guys will have to wait till our official review is up but as regards to the new Altis interiors I can tell you it's not all bad.

The bland design is boring and really looks bad in photos but plastic quality is not bad with the dash having soft touch plastics as well as upper part of the door pads.

It will not vow you but it's screwed well together and materials are not all bad. Some places the materials are below par.

It's not like a Skoda/VW which was same case even before.
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Old 25th May 2014, 14:10   #48
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Default Re: What is Toyota playing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IshaanIan View Post
Interesting point of view. I suppose you are correct. It is weid however, when everyone else is identifying India as a key market, Toyota is simply unwilling to milk this cow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dean5545 View Post
If you look at it properly you will come to know that India doesn't have the volume requirement which Toyota is looking for.
If you and I were in the same situation I think we too would have done the same thing what Toyota is doing.

Toyota will never get the volumes they are expecting to sell in India.
I remember reading a thread by GTO that had mentioned about Toyota India accepting its defeat from the small car market in India as the volumes this segment demands is very high that is needed for sustaining and progression and Toyota is not launching better vehicles that have a mass appeal but they moreover look conservative and dull.

Here the report by GTO:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...r-segment.html (Shocking! Toyota India admits defeat in the small car segment)

From the report shared by GTO, I feel it is good from their side to accept it and move on as it is correct to 'not do things you are not good at' which is not only going to waste time and resources but also brand value. At least with this step of theirs they can concentrate on the MUV/SUV/D-Segment where they are the kings. I don't think this is going to be taken as a negative attitude by the Indian market but applaud and move on.

Seeing the link shared by BHPian Dean5545, I am sharing two screen shots of the sales of Toyota worldwide and India.

Sales worldwide:
What is Toyota playing?-toyota-sales.jpg <br /> <b>Sales in India:</b><br /> <a href=What is Toyota playing?-toyota-sales1.jpg <br />
Though the data is only till 2012 but it will give a fair idea.<br /> <br /> <u>SOURCE:</u> <a rel=http://www.toyota-global.com/company...by_region.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by vivekgk View Post
From the day they entered India with a 30 year old hearse for sale, Toyota have been running on brand value and reliability alone.
I don't find anything wrong in this strategy used by Toyota. Reliability and brand value are important in a car's life.The Indian market has responded well to this strategy and they have enjoyed a good sales figures for their cars except the Etios and Liva. What I feel is every manufacturer will be learning form their mistakes and bounce back with a bang. It is until recent that sales are dwindling for Toyota cars which is making them look into their cars and I hope the designs will be mature.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vivekgk View Post
Evocative designs were never Toyota's strong point. Look what they've done with the new Landcruiser, the Prado, the Altis, Camry, Innova, heck, all their latest designs! They have decided that Bling is the way forward when people have begun to get tired of Bling.
I agree that the latest generation Innova is the worst of the lot and has offended the non-commercial owners. Hope they tone-down the BLING and chrome in the coming editions of the Innova specially.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vivekgk View Post
They need to re-evaluate their priorities and leave the bling to Hyundai and go back to making mature designs with solid execution.
Hyundai = B.L.I.N.G!

Anurag.

Last edited by a4anurag : 25th May 2014 at 14:11. Reason: Correcting a Quote.
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Old 25th May 2014, 16:11   #49
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Default Re: What is Toyota playing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
I remember reading a thread by GTO that had mentioned about Toyota India accepting its defeat from the small car market in India as the volumes this segment demands is very high that is needed for sustaining and progression and Toyota is not launching better vehicles that have a mass appeal but they moreover look conservative and dull.

Here the report by GTO:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...r-segment.html (Shocking! Toyota India admits defeat in the small car segment)

From the report shared by GTO, I feel it is good from their side to accept it and move on as it is correct to 'not do things you are not good at' which is not only going to waste time and resources but also brand value. At least with this step of theirs they can concentrate on the MUV/SUV/D-Segment where they are the kings. I don't think this is going to be taken as a negative attitude by the Indian market but applaud and move on.

Seeing the link shared by BHPian Dean5545, I am sharing two screen shots of the sales of Toyota worldwide and India.

Sales worldwide:
Attachment 1243880

Sales in India:
Attachment 1243881

Though the data is only till 2012 but it will give a fair idea.

SOURCE: http://www.toyota-global.com/company...by_region.html
The fact of the matter is, their Innova's sales while still better than the rest in the segment, are half of what they were just a year ago. The only segment where they are undoubtedly the "kings" where sales are concerned, is the D-Segment SUV category. Apart from that, the Corolla, Camry, Prius (all of which fall under what they claim to be their forte) are all selling pretty poorly so I suppose it would be nice if they had said something on the lines of: "We accept defeat in nearly every segment in the Indian car market, we shall now focus our priorities on SUVs and people carriers, and donate whatever extra cash we save by selling spartan cars, to Mitsubishi to allow them to not just focus on selling SUVs in India, but their awesome sedans too "

My thread was focused on their game plan here in India, a market seen by several companies as a key emerging one. So information on their global sales is pretty irrelevant. Once again, I am not dissing Toyota through this thread, I even respect some of their global efforts. Merely trying to understand why they aren't waking up and going the extra mile to get huge gains in India

Quote:
Originally Posted by petrolveins View Post
I think that we should not pass the final judgement on a car even before it is out for public sale :-). The pictures may not be showing the real look and feel of the new Corolla. As some of the members who have already mentioned, the car's interior in person looks like a premium one.

Coming to the fun factor of the engines when compared to the Europeans, what good is the advanced technology and mechanics in the European engines for if it has to compromise on its reliability?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
You guys will have to wait till our official review is up but as regards to the new Altis interiors I can tell you it's not all bad.
I was afraid the photographs might attract all the attention. I fully trust members who say the interior quality is not bad as they have actually seen the car (I myself have not), though I will still need an explanation as to why the plastics clearly look horrible in the pictures. However, I also mentioned my utter disdain at their insistence on charging 13-18 lakhs ex showroom, for only dual airbags, anti-lock brakes and brake-force distribution Also for not providing rear ac-vents in a country like India, in a car that isn't fun to drive anyway, and not giving their engines any kind of upgrade to boost power or efficiency.

Thanks
Ishaan

Last edited by IshaanIan : 25th May 2014 at 16:27.
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Old 26th May 2014, 03:46   #50
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Default Re: What is Toyota playing?

Ah Ishaan, but this begs the question of what BRANDING is, and how much that is worth.

Toyota's brand identity is clear: quality, reliability, universal-global cachet and good sales and service quality. Methinks the new Corolla would surely meet these criteria.

AND, having seen it in the flesh, and only because I have a low opinion of VW group designs, inside and out, it has MUCH more design 'character', more singularity, more measured 'presence' than either the Octavia or the Jetta. IMO, the Elantra pales a fair bit, and the Fluence too.

Of course, being a partisan of Euro cars for the usual, commonplace reasons, I'd still never buy a Toyota, but this car is tempting, only because it seems to have its own, very distinctive design identity, inside and out, and is tailor-made for being chauffeur-driven. I suspect it'll sell excellently, albeit in a declining segment.

Keen to see what team-bhp's reviewers feel.
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Old 26th May 2014, 10:39   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IshaanIan View Post
My thread was focused on their game plan here in India, a market seen by several companies as a key emerging one. So information on their global sales is pretty irrelevant. Once again, I am not dissing Toyota through this thread, I even respect some of their global efforts. Merely trying to understand why they aren't waking up and going the extra mile to get huge gains in India

Thanks
Ishaan
Ishaan, this is a nice thread you have started. Honestly haven't read all of the replies, but I am totally with you based on the premise of your story. Toyota has, since their arrival, always sold us something that they wouldn't sell in a Western market. Even today's Innova with its reliable engine produces just 105 bhp from a 2.5 liter displacement. If that isn't old school then I don't know what is.

It's not just Toyota. VW group, for example, hasn't bothered to manufacture their 2.0 TDI engine in India when it does duty on ~10 products. Surely we could have access to better priced products from their stable if they did so.

To me, it feels like India gets step-motherly treatment from the big guns. In that sense, I'm glad to see Hyundai selling identical products to their European/American lineup (except for over stretching the life of some products like the old Accent, i10, Santro, etc).

As far as the 'D' Segment goes, it's plain to see why it fails. A VW Jetta is not worth 7-8 Lakh (on road) more than a Vento. It just isn't. Neither is an 18 Lakh Corolla worth more than a 12 Lakh City. Combination of tax structure and lack of local manufacturing have led to this situation. Mahindra has proven that people will spend ~15 Lakh if they perceive value in the product purchased with the XUV500. I personally cannot honestly recommend any D Segment vehicle to a friend based on pricing and/or lack of any quality/technology.

Waiting for the day when the big world manufacturers take us seriously and sell 'global' and high technology cars here at a competitive price. They will all realise the fruits of their efforts when they do. Ford has proven that it works with the Ecosport.
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Old 26th May 2014, 11:00   #52
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I have always been telling everyone about this same trend I have been noticing in Toyotas for the past decade !!! People keep raving about the 'quality' of a Toyota ! Have they never seen the cheap, hard plastics used in cars like a Fortuner ? Toyota is known for the quality control measures in their manufacturing, and not in every car. Although the hard plastics are good for minimum wear tear, they do not do justice on such expensive cars.
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Old 26th May 2014, 12:51   #53
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Well, if Reliability is only factor, M800 is the Car to go for; isn't it? The lesser Equipments/Electronics, the minimum chances of Failures.
IMO, BASIC factors where Toyota just fails this side of 12L:
Sheet Metal/Paint Quality - Is anything special to write about? Innova too has extremely thin paint coat, leave apart Etios/Liva.
Interiors - No intention to hurt Etios/Liva Owners, but personally I believe these both score least. The weighing scale type speedo/tacho and Alto spec plastics are there just for the of it.
Modern Engines - Leave apart the Power output, the Technology itself is age old.
Overall - Plain Jane design, Boring Engines, Dull Interiors, Neutral Suspensions, Mediocre Performance and Scarce of Equipment are the "bounties" Toyota offers to its Million Rupee ( 9+ otr Etios VD) Sedan and Hatch. If just reliability is all it requires, why would one even think of Skoda/VW after so many reliability issues in the Flagship Brand of the Group, Audi - leave apart mass offerings. Case is opposite, and even after so many horror stories, VW group sells more cars in 10L bracket than Toyota does. And then we have D'zire/Swift, Xcent/G i10, EcoS/Figo from the competition which offer both reliability and brilliant value for money.
I own a 7+ years, 50k+ kms done Estilo, and among the brands/cars I am considering for my next ride, Toyota was never in my mind. Though I am seriously considering T-Jet An i20 gives you 6 Airbags, keyless entry etc, but you cannot buy this as even an option in a Fortuner! Can Toyota name 1 aspect in which Etios/Liva is unique (Fiat - Styling, Hyundai - kit level, Maruti - Well priced, Honda - sheer class for ex.) ?
What I mean to say is, it is first the Girl, then comes the Family she belongs to. Same way, if the Car is meritorious, nice brand is icing on the cake!
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Old 26th May 2014, 13:46   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinda View Post
IMO, BASIC factors where Toyota just fails this side of 12L:
Sheet Metal/Paint Quality - Is anything special to write about? Innova too has extremely thin paint coat, leave apart Etios/Liva.
I don't have that problem in my Altis at all.

On Saturday a rogue Innova driver cut me off and swiped the front left of my Altis. It was quite a hard hit and I was ready to see considerable damage.

There was a small dent and lots of scrapes from the innova. The dent was easy to fix but the sheet metal was solid resulting in a small dent only.

Surprising the Innova had all of it's beige paint on my fender and bumper. There is very little scratches on my car.

In comparison the Innova door has a deep dent and paint has come off.

Mind you my Altis has been whacked by a bus, electric gate at a hotel with no dent from any of those hits. Doors are heavy and hood is difficult to lift with one hand.

Exception of Etios/Liva, Toyota's are a notch above Hyundai, Honda, Maruti when it comes to sheet metal and solid feel.
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Old 26th May 2014, 13:52   #55
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Originally Posted by Sir"CAR" View Post
I have always been telling everyone about this same trend I have been noticing in Toyotas for the past decade !!! People keep raving about the 'quality' of a Toyota ! Have they never seen the cheap, hard plastics used in cars like a Fortuner ? Toyota is known for the quality control measures in their manufacturing, and not in every car. Although the hard plastics are good for minimum wear tear, they do not do justice on such expensive cars.
Why then do you think that Toyota owners still rave about the "quality" of Toyotas? Any idea? There must be something, no?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinda View Post
Well, if Reliability is only factor, M800 is the Car to go for; isn't it? The lesser Equipments/Electronics, the minimum chances of Failures.
IMO, BASIC factors where Toyota just fails this side of 12L:
Sheet Metal/Paint Quality - Is anything special to write about? Innova too has extremely thin paint coat, leave apart Etios/Liva.
Interiors - No intention to hurt Etios/Liva Owners, but personally I believe these both score least. The weighing scale type speedo/tacho and Alto spec plastics are there just for the of it.
Modern Engines - Leave apart the Power output, the Technology itself is age old.
Overall - Plain Jane design, Boring Engines, Dull Interiors, Neutral Suspensions, Mediocre Performance and Scarce of Equipment are the "bounties" Toyota offers to its Million Rupee ( 9+ otr Etios VD) Sedan and Hatch. If just reliability is all it requires, why would one even think of Skoda/VW after so many reliability issues in the Flagship Brand of the Group, Audi - leave apart mass offerings. Case is opposite, and even after so many horror stories, VW group sells more cars in 10L bracket than Toyota does. And then we have D'zire/Swift, Xcent/G i10, EcoS/Figo from the competition which offer both reliability and brilliant value for money.
I own a 7+ years, 50k+ kms done Estilo, and among the brands/cars I am considering for my next ride, Toyota was never in my mind. Though I am seriously considering T-Jet An i20 gives you 6 Airbags, keyless entry etc, but you cannot buy this as even an option in a Fortuner! Can Toyota name 1 aspect in which Etios/Liva is unique (Fiat - Styling, Hyundai - kit level, Maruti - Well priced, Honda - sheer class for ex.) ?
What I mean to say is, it is first the Girl, then comes the Family she belongs to. Same way, if the Car is meritorious, nice brand is icing on the cake!
Well, I had used Maruti 800, Alto VX (the 1100 cc version) before switching over to a basic Toyota Liva GD. Now, before using Toyota, I had a similar view like yours. While, I definitely agree that Marutis are extremely reliable cars, I had no idea what reliability could be before using a Toyota.

For example, while my Alto VX never failed me for almost 1 lakh kilometre that I've travelled in it, I as well as the Mass couldn't do anything about the rattles that the car developed at around 25K on road. The rattles worsened over the years (I stayed with the car for six years or so), and I had to let it be and was happy that the car still ran fine.

My Toyota, with all those so-called cheap interiors, the weighing scale type console and those "inferior" plastics doesn't make a single rattling sound at almost 30K now. And astoundingly, I found maintaining a Toyota Liva is cheaper than maintaining an Alto or a Maruti 800, service costwise. That's really something which I didn't expect at all.

On a different note, and kind of O-T, when I was using a Windows computer, I was always baffled why some people are ardent followers of the Apple Macintosh, despite they being basic, with lesser frills and lesser options of softwares. I realised once I started using a Mac machine myself. It's a "feeling of peace". While working on a Mac computer I know that I don't have to go on saving my work every now and then because the computer will not crash. This "peace of mind" is difficult to explain. Only Mac (and Toyota) users know this I suppose and that's the reason you'll find some people crying hoarse about the reliability factor.

For an elaborate report on the "failed" Etios models, I would like to refer to Amalji's thread. A comparative study of maintenance cost and "reliability" are all there. Here is the link:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...0-000-kms.html

Last edited by subratasenn : 26th May 2014 at 13:57. Reason: grammar, punctualtion
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Old 26th May 2014, 14:55   #56
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If we study Toyota's strategy right from their days of entering the Indian market and till date, we can see that they have kept their profit books on the green side(not the ecology green). They entered here with the ubiquitous Qualis which I still see doing service with tour operators and individual families. I have personally seen numerous Qualis taxi's which have done 2 lakh+ and some even 3 lakh+ kms while travelling to and from Mumbai to Pune. There is also one family friend whom I know who vouch by their Qualis which has done 2 lakh+ kms and is still going strong with minimal fuss. Coming back to the other offerings from Toyota the Innova and the Corolla which were launched after Qualis. These two vehicles did extremely well while they were launched especially the Innova, it sent the cash registers of Toyota ringing, then came the Fortuner which was a runaway success in its segment.

Looking at their other lineup of cars Etios and Liva, which were "made specifically" for India didn't do too well as compared to their other offerings. Now as a Forum we need to understand not all models offered by a manufacturer will be a success some are hit while others are miss.

Coming back to Innova, I have extensively travelled and still do travel as it is our office cab. This vehicle has done some 2 lac 60 thousand kilometers and still runs like a charm with minimal vibrations and engine noise, plus it is very comfortable, roomy and Reliable unlike the other cabs that were provisioned like Xylo, Tavera, Scorpio, Sumo, etc. On our insistence and feedback the company decided to continue with Innova rather than all the above mentioned vehicles which had atleast an episode or two of breakdown, rattling, intermittent AC issues, nausea due to bobbing and pitching, etc. I once got an opportunity to sit in a Toyota Camry the very first model that was launched here in India and I believe it came in as a CBU. I was amazed at the interior space and materials used in the car, the exterior design though very sober was pleasing to the eye. That car too had done some 1.5 lakh+ kms note it was owned by a private owner, the car was used extensively in city and ran like a charm. I have also seen repeat customers for Toyota for instance people who had owned the qualis immediately bought the Innova after Qualis was discontinued, one member from my building bought the new corolla altis after selling his older corolla after using it for nearly 10 years. One of my close relatives used to use a Skoda Octavia L&K model they got frustrated of its constant niggles and decided to sell it off and bought a Toyota Corolla Altis and are happy with it since the last two years.

For a category of buyers(read huge) Toyota satisfies them with their offerings. As a company they are doing good business and playing their cards safely. But I am sure once Innova's and Fortuners' sale starts dwindling to dangerous levels they will launch something to bounce back. To sum up my points, their Innova and Fortuner models are bringing them the numbers, Corolla and Camry are performing fairly, budget economy models aren't selling that well. So their concentration is more on the cars that are bringing in numbers and as the world knows Toyota follows lean manufacturing model and will concentrate on models which are selling well.

Last edited by navin_v8 : 26th May 2014 at 14:59. Reason: Grammatical error and adding more data
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Old 26th May 2014, 15:59   #57
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Default Re: What is Toyota playing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IshaanIan View Post
I think some people have misunderstood my intent with this thread. I am not enraged with Toyota at all, and I am not here to call up brands and start dissing them. I am only pointing out facts and marveling at how foolish it seems to me, that Toyota is still operating in the same way.
I can perfectly understand and empathize your sentiments and thoughts.

However, at the end of the day, I think toyota doesn't have to really sell itself, atleast in India. I am the kind of customer that toyota thrives on. Let me tell you why:

- I have a higher than normal interest in car's in general (but almost all people around me aren't).
- I have grown up ignorant about cars w.r.t. their safety features/handling/power/braking prowess. To me car's are mostly about travelling from point A to point B, and the occasional family/business trips.
- I have grown up travelling in trains/rickety buses/old ambassadors/ commander jeep taxis etc. These things were notorious to break down anywhere at anytime, causing me great inconvenience.
- Our first family car has been a fiat (which were prone to break down in those days), after which we got a maruti (which were prone to rattle), after which we got a tata (which were...well..).
- So I have grown up surrounded by either cars which were breaking down, or rattling.
- To add insult to injury (and also largely in part due to my own ignorance), I have been getting fleeced by the local mechanics or the A.S.S.
- I prefer changing cars every 5 years even though I know it isn't really healthy.. but my experience says that after 5 years most cars start giving problems repeatedly.
- I have learnt driving the wrong way, so I love to ride my clutch.. love to do sudden braking and accelerating.. don't stop my car for potholes and bad roads.. I AM A ABUSIVE DRIVER by habit.
.
.
.
I have been living like this for past 10-15 years of driving.
.
.
.
and then come TOYOTA
.
.
.
Toyota is a revelation:
- the car is built really well. It just exudes quality
- they are reliable
- they can take abuse like no other cars I have driven. Be it from the perspective of maintainence, abusive driving etc. They are just more FORGIVING in nature.
- the spares are cheap (ok.. only the wear and tear companents)
- servicing my car at A.S.S. is also very cheap
- after 5 years, the car still feels new-ish (after all the hell I have put it through)
- the handling and suspension set up is JUST RIGHT for our roads. It doesn't make me giddy like the old Tata/AL buses, and neither is it hard like the leaf-spring commander jeeps.
- and.. lest I forget: the cars take the aftermarket chinese crap (which I love) very well. Cut a wire here and there? No problem. Bull bar install gone wrong? Meh.
- most issues will be easily fixed by my local mechanic.

Tell me one manufacturer which is giving me all of this?
1. Maruti? Haha.. they have caught up but, still the toyota cars are still better. Plus, I hate rattles (and believe me, once you experience a rattle free car, you are unlikely to go back)
2. Honda? Well yeah, close.. but the spares are very expensive, and the worst part about their cars is the handling. It still isn't as good.
3. Europeans? Hah!
4. Hyundai? Getting close, and I personally think they are the one to be feared by toyota. I am personally convinced that their car's are good, and they are consistently improving.. it's only a matter of time before perceptions change.


--------------------------------------

So you may say that "I am a enthusiast", and that I am more informed. True, and to a large extent, I will agree with you that toyota seems to have taken us for granted.

I love my cars, and always try to take good care of them. However, real life is different. No matter how much care I try to take care of, I cannot say, nor expect the same from others who come in contact with my cars.

I tend to be (and quite frankly, I prefer to be) a chauffer driven for my daily commute. I have a driver who isn't the best educated man out there. I have a family which uses the car. Due to the nature of my work, I usually tend to overshoot quite a lot of my services.

Life is now a lot more stressful. Indian law and mindset means that I am at the mercy of the service centers. Good mechanics are a rare find. I have and have owned several european cars in the past. To me, it's not worth it at this juncture. Maybe when I am settled with my life.. I will definitely consider them.

Money isn't the problem really. It's the attitude of the other competition which irk's me. Till toyota came, no one else wanted to better themselves. I understand that it's really difficult to do business in India, but there are worse places in the world.

You know, what.. toyota still offers me the one thing I prefer (and I am sure most of you will, whether you are an enthusiast or not): PEACE OF MIND. Safety features may be lesser than others, I may have a decade old technology than others, I may have the most bland interiors seen till date... BUT when the time comes, and I really need the car, I will always take out the toyota.

You know who is the customer who will buy their camry/corolla/innova/fortuner inspite of them offering a lot less for their price?

You want to know who will prefer to pay for their ridiculously overpriced cars?

You know want to know who will prefer to buy the etios/liva twins over other competetion?

I will.
.
.
I, the reasonably more aware customer who lives in a tier 1 city, who is living a very very hectic life. I, who doesn't have the time to go to the service center and check whether all the requisite services have been carried out or not (in spite of me paying for them)

I, the totally ignorant customer who lives in a tier 1/tier 2 city, who is heavily dependent on the A.S.S./ crap mechanics to maintain my cars.

I, the extremely arrogant, rigid driver who doesn't want to change his style of driving.

I, the happily ignorant customer who is very finicky with his money. I, who will prefer to go and buy cheap chinese stuff, and furthermore, get them them installed by an equally ignorant person just to save a few bucks.

I, the man who has other priorities. I, the non-enthusiast.


Their cars do what they are supposed to do.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Toyota hasn't really needed to market itself very strongly atleast in India. The competition makes sure, they get their repeat customers.

Till the rest of the competition don't catch up, and you know what... become BETTER than toyota; Toyota will continue to have my money.

Thanks,
Simple_car
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Old 26th May 2014, 16:25   #58
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Default Re: What is Toyota playing?

Now that it's clear that this thread is not only about the Altis, Let's take a look at the numbers from toyota.

First their runaway successes. The Innova and the Fortuner. The Innova now in it's 10th year now I think still sells a whooping 4000 cars monthly average. Over the years the price has gone up and now the top spec one is close to 18lakhs on road in cities like Bangalore. We may complain that it is underpowered and not good on highway and now looks hideous but 4000 cars a month point something wrong with us who complain. Ofcourse you may argue that cabbies account for a large % of Innovas but does it matter? The cab driver's buy it cause it's bullet proof.

Then the Fortuner. A 30 lakh SUV which has never sold less than 1000 units in a month since the launch in 2009 (last 2 months numbers were an exception due to labour strike at the plant). Again interiors like the cheaper Innova, lack of features, bumpy ride but majority of buyers are queuing up for it. Why not SSangyong Rexton or Pajero sports or Endeavour?

Then the Camry. A 30 L petrol sedan with only 2 airbags and load of other features missing sells around 40 cars a month. Not great numbers but the Superb with Petrol and diesel and a truck load of more features sells around 100 monthly. The Passat had to be withdrawn and so did the Accord but the Camry still remains.

The Altis has been selling reasonably since launch. If you go back to 2008 you will see that when the current Altis was launched in 2008, the first month 3,400 units were sold. Ever since then there has been a decline and now the car is in it's 6th year which sort of explains the slump being outdated vs the competition. It never sold poorly just went down as it got older. In comparison Honda had to discontinue the Civic.

Their only flops have been the Etios/Liva. They thoroughly underestimated the budget car buyers mindset and have been suffering since then. They have tried every possible thing to improve to the Etios/Liva on the inside but then there is only so much they can do with a flawed design to start with.

Mind you Toyota is also heavily dependent on Toyota thailand. Until and unless Toyota thailand change the design or introduce something new Toyota India can't change as well since the kits of these cars (except Etios and Liva) come from Thailand
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Old 26th May 2014, 16:34   #59
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Default Re: What is Toyota playing?

I would liken Toyota in India to the Apple iPhone. Massive brand equity and aspirational value (so it will sell), pricey for the specs, well built but it's not like you can't do better for the price and old tech flogged as new (iPhone 5c - Corolla engines). There are some people who are left cold by the value proposition the two brands offer.

Just saw the Autocar review and it occurred to me that from a 1.8 petrol engine the Corolla develops about the same amount of torque as the Vento TSI does from a 1.2!
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Old 26th May 2014, 16:36   #60
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Default Re: What is Toyota playing?

This may be repetition of some of the points already discussed, but I would think Toyota's strategy is to provide 'just enough’ in the market such that customers would naturally turn to them in the segments they operate in.

Examples:
1. If someone is in the market for a mini-van like vehicle that can take 6 people in comfort plus luggage, what options does he have, other than Innova?
2. If someone is in the market for an SUV that costs less than 30L, which is reliable, has the looks, has good A.S.S and will retain its value over time, which option other than Fortuner?
3. Diesel sedan, which has 'enough' snob value but low maintenance costs, wouldn’t Altis be among the top 3 options?

So, unless there is completion in the market, there is no incentive for Toyota to add more and more features or luxuries to their models.

Last edited by Aditya : 27th May 2014 at 12:31. Reason: Spacing edited for better readability
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