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Old 18th May 2016, 11:01   #16
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I drive a Honda City 2011 and 2015 Fiat Avventura. The beep sound helps tremendously to restrain myself from speeding. It is a must have feature among many add ons that I have realised Fiat offers against the Honda. And I must say these small features does make the journeys more safer.
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Old 18th May 2016, 11:09   #17
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Default Re: Crash Testing in India! The Bharat new vehicle safety assessment program

Just a matter of time before the local accessories shop fellow disables the beeper (whether the owner wants it or not)!
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Old 18th May 2016, 11:27   #18
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Default Re: Crash Testing in India! The Bharat new vehicle safety assessment program

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Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
I am so much happy for the new BNVSAP be it at 56 kmph or 50 kmph; at least we are seeing a start. However, that 'beep' is useless. Probably a result of lobbying as this will be cheaper to produce and will rake up the safety rating. I wonder if after an accident, someone might claim that he was taken aback by a 'loud alert' at about 100 kmph and his surprise resulted in an accident!!
I believe on the contrary. Our roads are literally not suited for 100 kmph or more, even if it is six laned. Someone / something can jump in the middle, or you might find an unmarked speed hump at the last moment causing uncontrollable situations. So 80 kmph warning and 100 kmph alert are perfectly fine.
Alerts given by the system should not make the driver startled, but instead it should be mild and irritating enough at the same time to slow him down to stop the warning.
Regarding crash tests at 56 kmph - would there be any diffference? Can a car which fails the 64 kmph test with 0 adult accupant safety, pass the 56 kmph test?
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Old 18th May 2016, 11:35   #19
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So 80 kmph warning and 100 kmph alert are perfectly fine.
I see you are from Coimbatore. So you can probably relate better to my question. If we take 100 people, how many do you think can drive from Coimbatore to Nagercoil via Salem, Madurai at speeds below 80kmph without falling asleep behind the wheel?

The Salem to Dindigul stretch itself is so deserted at times, you only get to use brakes at toll booths.

I believe 100 is easily doable, while 120 is within safe limits as well on such roads.
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Old 18th May 2016, 14:58   #20
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Default Re: Crash Testing in India! The Bharat new vehicle safety assessment program

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I see you are from Coimbatore. So you can probably relate better to my question. If we take 100 people, how many do you think can drive from Coimbatore to Nagercoil via Salem, Madurai at speeds below 80kmph without falling asleep behind the wheel?

The Salem to Dindigul stretch itself is so deserted at times, you only get to use brakes at toll booths.

I believe 100 is easily doable, while 120 is within safe limits as well on such roads.
Agree with you - pretty awesome roads, 120 is the legal speed limits in certain roads and getting a warning for going at legal speeds is non sequitur. A friend of mine had a malfunction in the seat belt warning system and I know his agony.

I am not against beeps, but let the speeds be decided by the particular vehicle's capabilities when driven by a competent driver in standardized test conditions. What the Nano cannot do at 80 kmph, the Vento can probably do without deviating an inch off the line. The beep suggestion is probably just a reason to ensure at least one star.

And finally, I am of the opinion that the driver has to be aware of his/her vehicle's speed without beeps and other warnings. Except for a few models, the speedometer is right in front him/her. If he/she needs an observer to tell that some limits are being exceeded, the eligibility to occupy that set has to be questioned.
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Old 18th May 2016, 17:11   #21
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Default Re: Crash Testing in India! The Bharat new vehicle safety assessment program

I hope, these beeps et al, really not take it away from the fundamental basic safety parameters and start labeling any car having beep feature with five stars.

Just a gut feeling - Bharat NCAP might be a ploy by the government to safe guard the interest of some of the car manufacturers by bringing down the safety standards and jacking up the safety ratings for them.
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Old 18th May 2016, 17:18   #22
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Default Re: Crash Testing in India! The Bharat new vehicle safety assessment program

United States NHTSA NCAP - Introduced 1979
Australia NewZealand NCAP - Introduced 1993
Euro NCAP - Introduced 1997
China NCAP (C-NCAP) - Introduced 2006
Latin NCAP - Introduced 2010

India NCAP - (To be) Introduced 2017

We are getting there.
The thing we should be worried about are -
1. How that worries me more is how high the bar is going to be. Would be interesting to see how the entry level cars score.
2. Would the agency be sharing the detailed scores and videos like GlobalNCAP and Euro NCAP?

With our scoring system for armed forces purchases like helicopters and howitzers susceptible to rigging, I hope the Bharat NCAP is able to maintain transparency from the very start and is able to avoid any controversies.
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Old 18th May 2016, 20:11   #23
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Default Re: Crash Testing in India! The Bharat new vehicle safety assessment program

This programme really can't come any sooner! If all the recent crash tests done by Global NCAP are anything to go by, it is a crying shame that we have such unsafe cars plying on our roads in India. Add to that the irresponsible attitudes of the manufacturers

This programme will not make any difference at all if it just used to test cars. The government needs to make it mandatory for every car to pass the test with a minimum amount of stars (Maybe 3?), and also mandate the manufacturers to display the safety rating achieved by that car along with their advertisements. The media also should publish the results of these tests all over the place. This will help educate the public about which cars are safer than others, and ensure that all the manufacturers are actually towing the line in terms of safety in the cars they produce.

Cheers
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Old 18th May 2016, 20:14   #24
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Default Re: Crash Testing in India! The Bharat new vehicle safety assessment program

In the current news article, it is mentioned like this: " Getting Safety ratings from Bharat NCAP will be voluntary for manufacturers ".

It would be great if that "Voluntary" word been replaced by "mandatory". I strongly suggest this change after seeing daily news about various accidents happening across our country.
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Old 19th May 2016, 08:51   #25
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Default Re: Crash Testing in India! The Bharat new vehicle safety assessment program

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Originally Posted by pkothak View Post
In the current news article, it is mentioned like this: " Getting Safety ratings from Bharat NCAP will be voluntary for manufacturers ".

It would be great if that "Voluntary" word been replaced by "mandatory". I strongly suggest this change after seeing daily news about various accidents happening across our country.
Absolutely! It is loop-holes of this kind (in the regulations) that allow all those who are culpable to slip out. It is the classic bureaucratic escape route - its called CYA or cover your ass.
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Old 19th May 2016, 10:36   #26
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Default Re: Crash Testing in India! The Bharat new vehicle safety assessment program

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Originally Posted by pkothak View Post

It would be great if that "Voluntary" word been replaced by "mandatory". I strongly suggest this change after seeing daily news about various accidents happening across our country.
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Originally Posted by shashanka View Post
Absolutely! It is loop-holes of this kind (in the regulations) that allow all those who are culpable to slip out. It is the classic bureaucratic escape route - its called CYA or cover your ass.
Isn't it sad that we trust our fellow humans buyers so much that we know for certain that most will opt out of higher priced crash test certified vehicle and buy the cheaper vehicle which the manufacturer voluntarily chose not to test.
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Old 19th May 2016, 11:07   #27
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Default Re: Crash Testing in India! The Bharat new vehicle safety assessment program

May I add that the commercial vehicles plying on our roads are completely overlooked.
They still have rickety cabs made out of wood,improper lighting(absence of tail lamps and reflectors) and probably one of the most important,no under run bars.
The crash test regulations couldn't come soon enough,well yes and no,because even if we had vehicles with spectacular crash test compliance and a ton of safety features the number of road mishaps and accidents would still remain fairly high because the skill levels of majority of licensed Indian drivers is woefully inadequate.
The common man is not to be blamed for these poor driving skills because our driving tests are a JOKE.Seriously,from my experience,all you need to pass the driving test is to be able to release the clutch without stalling that too inside the compound of the local RTO office.
There is absolutely no real world testing,never was I educated about any lane discipline,proper use of high and low beams etc.We cannot blame the common drivers for not being aware of lane discipline or blinding everyone with their high beams,not using turn signals etc because it was never taught to them in the first place.
To top it all off the testing officer insists on using HAND SIGNALS to indicate turns and stops,Are we in the early 1900's?Are the authorities not aware that all vehicles come equipped with turn signals and brake lights?Or do they just think that these are just some fancy lights?
I am not saying that the crash tests are not important,they are very important and definitely a step in the right direction.
At the same time we also need to train our drivers better because what is the use of safer cars when everyone's driving is not safe.
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Old 19th May 2016, 11:07   #28
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Default Re: Crash Testing in India! The Bharat new vehicle safety assessment program

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Originally Posted by hybridpetrol View Post
Our roads are literally not suited for 100 kmph or more, even if it is six laned. Someone / something can jump in the middle, or you might find an unmarked speed hump at the last moment causing uncontrollable situations. So 80 kmph warning and 100 kmph alert are perfectly fine.
Completely agree.
After years of driving, I have to agree that our roads are not +100 safe.

On a usual weekend Mysore Bangalore trip, how many accidents do you all see.
And I feel, a lot of them could have been caused due to over speeding, trying to overtake, a stray two wheeler, or a bullock cart in the opposite direction.
The chances of avoiding a big shunt if one is doing 120 is far too less. And, its not that the car speeding would meet a crash at all times, a trucker trying to avoid, might also be impacted because of a fast car.

Also, driving at a speed limit, will make the drive more effortless, less overtaking, more distance between cars, no tailgating, no road rage. Today, a drive is more like a race for a lot of us Indians.
If you have just done a long distance trip, the first question someone would ask is 'How many hours did it take?'
I wish the question changes to 'how, the breakfast was at the restaurant?'
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Old 19th May 2016, 12:02   #29
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Default Re: Crash Testing in India! The Bharat new vehicle safety assessment program

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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
I see you are from Coimbatore. So you can probably relate better to my question. If we take 100 people, how many do you think can drive from Coimbatore to Nagercoil via Salem, Madurai at speeds below 80kmph without falling asleep behind the wheel?

The Salem to Dindigul stretch itself is so deserted at times, you only get to use brakes at toll booths.

I believe 100 is easily doable, while 120 is within safe limits as well on such roads.
I understand that many would want some "action" when seated behind the wheels, and anything below 100 seems like hopelessly slow - especially on roads such as Salem Cochin Highway (NH544), because these roads are being built with pretty much nothing on either sides.

However we need to keep in mind that, these roads does not disallow slow moving vehicles such as bicycles, auto rickshaws etc. You can even find people from nearby villages walking or two wheelers crossing the roads diagonally, wherever there is an opening in the median.
If you enter into Kerala, you can easily find trucks coming in the opposite direction (sometimes in fast lane!). From distance you can easily mistake them as a truck without danger lights moving in the correct direction.

The roads are beautifully tarred and neat, yes. But I do not understand why there are openings without warning.
Being slow, allows us enough time to react in such times. Any way, I do not find the average speed crossing 80 kmph on our trips even if we maintain 120+ for more than half of our trip.
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Old 19th May 2016, 14:53   #30
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Default Re: Crash Testing in India! The Bharat new vehicle safety assessment program

Quote:
Originally Posted by pkothak View Post
In the current news article, it is mentioned like this: " Getting Safety ratings from Bharat NCAP will be voluntary for manufacturers "
Quote:
Originally Posted by shashanka View Post
It is loop-holes of this kind (in the regulations) that allow all those who are culpable to slip out
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Originally Posted by alpha1 View Post
that most will opt out of higher priced crash test certified vehicle and buy the cheaper vehicle which the manufacturer voluntarily chose not to test
I think there is some misunderstanding with regard to the Mandatory Regulations (regulatory tests) vis-a-vis Consumer Regulations (BNVSAP etc).

Not opting for safety rating from BNVSAP doesn't mean that the vehicles will escape the regulatory testing, including crash tests (AIS 098 & AIS 099 - offset frontal, side etc.). The vehicles would be required to pass these tests to be eligible for sale in market.

The rating system encompasses many other aspects of safety - Adult Occupant Protection, Child Occupant Protection, Pedestrian Protection, Active safety devices/ features and many more. Taking this rating is being made voluntary.

As far as regulation making authorities are concerned, they just do a copy paste job from EU regulations and yet miss out (delay) on many regulations (ABS & ESP etc). Only in very few cases they apply some different parameters for Indian conditions; and have been mostly pliable to the SIAM. So, as the Euro-NCAP is not mandatory in Europe, how can we expect the authorities here to dare and step ahead.

I just wanted to clarify the situation and not in any way saying that this is acceptable situation.
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