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Old 30th May 2014, 17:18   #91
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Default Re: 2014 Toyota Corolla Altis (11th Gen) launched @ 11.99 lakhs

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Originally Posted by desdemona View Post
Their styling was deliberately over-done (inside and out) precisely because they wanted to create a splash and impress highly aspirational but 'immature' buyers in markets like India and China.
Don't you think this line could have been avoided ? I don't think one needs to insult a group of buyers,just because our preferences in terms of styling are different.

EDIT: I think a Poll is a good idea like suggested earlier

Last edited by shashank.nk : 30th May 2014 at 17:21.
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Old 30th May 2014, 17:54   #92
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Default Re: 2014 Toyota Corolla Altis (11th Gen) launched @ 11.99 lakhs

But on the whole, the best car in this segment is the Jetta.

Even though it might be priced a little higher, the overall experience is just much more superior than all the other cars, including the Elantra.

This is closely followed by the Octavia which loses on ride quality (Diesel) and ASS.

Jetta has the best engine, gearbox, best space and rear seat, a huge boot, nice steering, and is filled with features.

The VW ASS has improved vastly, much more than the Skoda ASS that has been present since before.

The Jetta really is the complete package and I would suggest anybody to stretch their budget just a bit and get the Jetta over any other car in the competition.

Also, the extended warranty makes this already reliable car a sweeter deal.
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Old 30th May 2014, 17:54   #93
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Default Re: 2014 Toyota Corolla Altis (11th Gen) launched @ 11.99 lakhs

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Originally Posted by shashank.nk View Post
Don't you think this line could have been avoided ? I don't think one needs to insult a group of buyers,just because our preferences in terms of styling are different.

EDIT: I think a Poll is a good idea like suggested earlier
Why else do you think i put it quotes. This is not my opinion or style preference it is the way car companies themselves analyze buyers/markets: eg., lots of chrome and stretched wheelbases in china, not to mention a taboo-on-hatchbacks e.g., lots of small diesels, beige interiors, chrome, gadgetry and features in India etc.

The 'immaturity' i was referring to was of the car-buying public: after all we are, what, barely into the second decade of 'world-class' car model availibility? And, outside of team-bhp say, you will agree that the degree of awareness about historical design languages, histories of individual car-model brands (e.g., the Corolla) not to mention engineering and safety is very limited indeed.

We tend to so easily ignore the fact that Hyundai has only very lately started making high-quality sedans in our market, the current Elantra is the first credible, well-rounded large sedan from Hyundai. IMO we ought to be showing not deference but some, due respect to car-brands like the Corolla or the VW Jetta that have, instead, a long and strong legacy.

MODS: hope this is not OT.
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Old 30th May 2014, 18:27   #94
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Default Re: 2014 Toyota Corolla Altis (11th Gen) launched @ 11.99 lakhs

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Originally Posted by desdemona View Post
Why else do you think i put it quotes. This is not my opinion or style preference it is the way car companies themselves analyze buyers/markets: eg., lots of chrome and stretched wheelbases in china, not to mention a taboo-on-hatchbacks e.g., lots of small diesels, beige interiors, chrome, gadgetry and features in India etc.
Well I agree with you to an extent,however the tone of your posts suggests otherwise. Manufacturers only cater to the demand and our market loves VFM.

Quote:
The 'immaturity' i was referring to was of the car-buying public: after all we are, what, barely into the second decade of 'world-class' car model availibility? And, outside of team-bhp say, you will agree that the degree of awareness about historical design languages, histories of individual car-model brands (e.g., the Corolla) not to mention engineering and safety is very limited indeed.
Agreed but this is soon changing.

Quote:
We tend to so easily ignore the fact that Hyundai has only very lately started making high-quality sedans in our market, the current Elantra is the first credible, well-rounded large sedan from Hyundai. IMO we ought to be showing not deference but some, due respect to car-brands like the Corolla or the VW Jetta that have, instead, a long and strong legacy.
Lets leave the Jetta out of this,its way superior in everything except TOC. If one's to compare Elantra to Corolla,like has been said previously,
  • Its cheaper
  • Almost as reliable and comfortable
  • Much much safer (IIHS safety pick for its segment)

So I think its commendable that a manufacturer like Hyundai has given me a car which offers much more than a car with legacy. Its a no-brainer what I or many others would pick.

Anyway,we're OT here so if you want you to,you can PM me.

Last edited by shashank.nk : 30th May 2014 at 18:39.
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Old 30th May 2014, 19:21   #95
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Default Re: 2014 Toyota Corolla Altis (11th Gen) launched @ 11.99 lakhs

Elantra nearly matches the Corolla in terms of monthly sales in the most mature car market - USA. Both sell around 22-25k copies per month. And it is priced higher than the Corolla in that market ($17.2k for base Elantra vs $16.8k for base Corolla). But then the 'immature' hispanics might be buying Elantras in the US

I personally think the Corolla is overpriced here. Its a great car for the neutrals but boy at that price it really is stretching it.

Last edited by Cesc : 30th May 2014 at 19:31.
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Old 30th May 2014, 20:04   #96
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Default 2014 Toyota Corolla Altis (11th Gen) launched @ 11.99 lakhs

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Originally Posted by Cesc View Post
Elantra nearly matches the Corolla in terms of monthly sales in the most mature car market - USA. Both sell around 22-25k copies per month. And it is priced higher than the Corolla in that market ($17.2k for base Elantra vs $16.8k for base Corolla). But then the 'immature' hispanics might be buying Elantras in the US
Let's not compare USA spec Corolla and Elentra to Indian specs. Both the markets are different.

Corolla base model that you mentioned at 16.8k is Corolla L with old 4 speed AT. The one with new CVT (which India received years ago) is LE that starts at 18.3k and has less features than Base Elentra at 17.2k. And still, Toyota sold 29k copies of Corolla vs. Elentra's 19k. Civic sold 28k copies. Even Cruze sold 21k copies in April 2014.
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I personally think the Corolla is overpriced here. Its a great car for the neutrals but boy at that price it really is stretching it.
As I said before, Corolla is overpriced, for sure. But it may be just the strategy to garner higher profit margins since the segment is not expanding at all.
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Old 30th May 2014, 21:52   #97
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Default Re: 2014 Toyota Corolla Altis (11th Gen) launched @ 11.99 lakhs

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Originally Posted by prakhar1998 View Post
It is expected in a couple of months. However, if it doesn't come out, please don't blame me for the unnecessary wait
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Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
Absolutely no idea but going by link from Prakhar it should be a couple of months. If you can wait, it should be worth it. Quite a few changes in the Elantra.
Thanks guys. I think we will go ahead with the booking. Decided on a white diesel. It won't be a chauffeur driven hence it won't pinch to miss rear cooled seats. Touch screen, well, not keen too. Although newer design looks more sporty, will go with the current which makes it look sober in comparison.

The new corolla simply did not feel is made for today's age.
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Old 30th May 2014, 22:09   #98
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Default Re: 2014 Toyota Corolla Altis (11th Gen) launched @ 11.99 lakhs

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Originally Posted by penpavan View Post
Thanks guys. I think we will go ahead with the booking. Decided on a white diesel. It won't be a chauffeur driven hence it won't pinch to miss rear cooled seats. Touch screen, well, not keen too. Although newer design looks more sporty, will go with the current which makes it look sober in comparison.

The new corolla simply did not feel is made for today's age.
Considering the car will be self driven, I suggest you do give a look to the Jetta. I am sure your dad will prefer driving a better performing car. And considering the various LTO reviews on our forum, no major issues have cropped up in the Jetta and it seems fairly reliable. Even the service costs have dropped considerably to only about Rs.10-15000. every 15000 kms which is reasonable. For that added peace of mind you can get the extended warranty at at affordable price.
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Old 30th May 2014, 22:15   #99
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Default Re: 2014 Toyota Corolla Altis (11th Gen) launched @ 11.99 lakhs

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Originally Posted by penpavan View Post
The new corolla simply did not feel is made for today's age.
What? What makes you say that? I think its a fantastic car over all. The new design specially is very cool. The changes they have made inside and out are pretty damn good. Yes, a few more features would have justified the high price, but what ever you get in it isn't too bad either.
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Old 30th May 2014, 23:13   #100
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Default Re: 2014 Toyota Corolla Altis (11th Gen) launched @ 11.99 lakhs

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Originally Posted by prakhar1998 View Post
Considering the car will be self driven, I suggest you do give a look to the Jetta. I am sure your dad will prefer driving a better performing car. And considering the various LTO reviews on our forum, no major issues have cropped up in the Jetta and it seems fairly reliable. Even the service costs have dropped considerably to only about Rs.10-15000. every 15000 kms which is reasonable. For that added peace of mind you can get the extended warranty at at affordable price.
You think?
Things that worked against the Jetta for us were:
1. Reliability and TCO
2. We did not like the tall floor hump in the rear
3. You cannot tell Jetta from a Vento looking at their faces!
4. The guys at the showroom were just too audacious, did not give good vibes, imagine dealing with any vehicle problems in future..
Wanted to avoid even a grain of doubt.

We had a terrible time with our Fiesta, endless number of service center visits. We wanted something reliable. Yes, Corolla seemed a natural choice until we saw Elantra and Corolla side by side. There was just one feeling. Would we be so blind to pay what Toyota is asking for this new Corolla. And I owned a Hyundai before and never had any issues with it.
Going by reports, Hyundai seem to be equally reliable. Hence the change in mind in favour of Hyundai was more sensible.
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Old 31st May 2014, 00:16   #101
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Default Re: 2014 Toyota Corolla Altis (11th Gen) launched @ 11.99 lakhs

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Originally Posted by shashank.nk View Post
Lets leave the Jetta out of this,its way superior in everything except TOC. If one's to compare Elantra to Corolla,like has been said previously,
  • Its cheaper
  • Almost as reliable and comfortable
  • Much much safer (IIHS safety pick for its segment)
Well then, why is the brilliant, fluidic coupe of a Hyundai, with no legacy or brand narrative/(hi)story, outselling the Jetta by a BIG margin? Because of the same three points you've made. That is what happens when one confuses price for 'value': the cheaper-is-more-is-better logic prevails: most Hyundai Elantra (prospective) owners are unaware of the superiority of the Jetta, or as i am arguing, of the Corolla (I have two relatives who've bought Elantra-s.)

That is what happens when this value-maximising logic gets applied too wantonly, as is RIFE in the Indian car bazaar. Why else is the d-segment shrinking, why else are (arguably) great-to-champion cars like the Octavia, the Linea, the Fiesta, the Jetta, the Passat, and now, judging from majority opinion here on this thread, the Corolla, NOT selling much at all?

Guess 'we are like that only'!

Cheers (and i did not and will not buy the Corolla either!)

Last edited by Vid6639 : 31st May 2014 at 00:33. Reason: fixing the quote tag
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Old 31st May 2014, 00:46   #102
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Default Re: 2014 Toyota Corolla Altis (11th Gen) launched @ 11.99 lakhs

Just something to think about. If people looking at buying a Corolla were looking for bullet proof reliability, rear seat comfort and a car with strong legacy, how come sales of the old Corolla Altis dipped ridiculously low since the past one year?

The earlier Altis was a bench mark in rear seat comfort with only the Elantra offering similar comfort at the back. The new Altis improves the rear legroom as well as under thigh support but does not add anything additional as such. Both petrol and diesel engines as well as the manual and CVT gearboxes are carried over from the out going Altis so the old Altis and new Altis share the same engines and gearboxes as well.

So how come people stopped looking at reliability, legacy, brand and opted for the Elantra. Even the Jetta and Octavia has done quite well and sold more than the Altis till they discontinued it.
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Old 31st May 2014, 00:58   #103
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Default Re: 2014 Toyota Corolla Altis (11th Gen) launched @ 11.99 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by desdemona View Post
That is what happens when one confuses price for 'value': the cheaper-is-more-is-better logic prevails: most Hyundai Elantra (prospective) owners are unaware of the superiority of the Jetta, or as i am arguing, of the Corolla (I have two relatives who've bought Elantra-s.)
I hope the mods wouldn't mind one last OT post here,no more posts from me. I'll keep this short & simple Elantra vis-a-vis Jetta

Not every D segment buyer drives on a daily basis
Reliability
After-sales
Total cost of ownership.
Nobody cares for legacy, blah blah if a cheaper product is superior in most aspects(comparing to Corolla only)

I don't see 'value' playing a huge part here. D segment is shrinking for reasons other than what you've mentioned. We have a thread here and it'll be a good read for you

PS: Walk into a Hyundai showroom showing interest in the Elantra. Do the same at a VW showroom saying you'd like to buy a Jetta. Tell us who was better.

Last edited by shashank.nk : 31st May 2014 at 01:05.
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Old 31st May 2014, 02:10   #104
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Default Re: 2014 Toyota Corolla Altis (11th Gen) launched @ 11.99 lakhs

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Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
Just something to think about. If people looking at buying a Corolla were looking for bullet proof reliability, rear seat comfort and a car with strong legacy, how come sales of the old Corolla Altis dipped ridiculously low since the past one year?

The earlier Altis was a bench mark in rear seat comfort with only the Elantra offering similar comfort at the back. The new Altis improves the rear legroom as well as under thigh support but does not add anything additional as such. Both petrol and diesel engines as well as the manual and CVT gearboxes are carried over from the out going Altis so the old Altis and new Altis share the same engines and gearboxes as well.

So how come people stopped looking at reliability, legacy, brand and opted for the Elantra. Even the Jetta and Octavia has done quite well and sold more than the Altis till they discontinued it.
Simple: design and the neo-philia that has gripped our market, with new releases immediately selling in bucket-loads (c2-segment and below).

That is why Toyota has revamped the styling language, inside and out. And yet we are speaking of everything but this, when doing our VFM accounting.

To my eye the VFM champion, the Elantra, looks pretty but effete, like a scrawny, made-up fashion-ramp-model.

The Jetta looks every bit the no-nonsense man-of-the-world from central rather than passionate southern Europe or bad-ass America.

And the Corolla is a somewhat tasteful, wealthy-but-frugal, portly seth's chauffeur-driven city and highway car, which his boisterous, spoilt, trend-conscious son or daughter would not mind being seen in.

All of the above, just in jest!

cheers, men!

Last edited by desdemona : 31st May 2014 at 02:11.
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Old 31st May 2014, 11:32   #105
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Guys just got bak after seeing the New corolla. 1.4 diesel is a very big disappointment again. Though the dealership claimed that Toyota retweaked the 88bhp oil burner, but I wasn't the least impressed with the performance. By chance a friend of mine pulled up next to me in his jetta while I tested the corolla and had a short drag where the corolla was left miles behind with no attempt to catch up and they almost cost the same. The ride quality and the air conditioner are excellent though. I think people who like to be driven by drivers are going to buy this car or people who stand by the Toyota brand name, but an enthusiastic driver who enjoys driving himself will not even come close to this vehicle. On being asked, the sales re clearly informed me that they had a booking for 70 vehicles in Chandigarh itself from January at one dealership whereas Honda had booking of around 250 vehicles thru one dealership in Chandigarh on its 1st day. I think Toyota needs to get to it into their system Indians want performance with economy not just economy. I am surprised at the person taking decisions in Toyota for not understanding this and giving us taxi warranted engines.
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