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Old 3rd June 2014, 20:11   #31
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Default Re: E85 fuel for India?

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Originally Posted by gsurya View Post
  1. If Ethanol is encouraged, it will reduce land available for food crops increasing food costs for our poor. Its what happened in Brazil & caused huge unrest.
  2. In every major city a car is unaffordable for most except the upper class due to the big taxes & parking costs; I certainly couldnt when I lived in Singapore & Copenhagen
  3. There is abundance of gas that can be imported from Middle East, Iran etc - we dont even produce all car components anyway
  4. We need to expedite nuclear projects that were pushed by the last Govt
  5. We tripled our power generation since 2004, now we need to move even faster
  6. If I can get into an AC bus, metro or local to get anywhere in the city without a big crowd crush I would certainly not use my car daily to work
1. True but the rational for this move is slightly different, if I read correctly. The idea is to use excess sugar crops and help sugar farmers in times of a bumper harvest. Hence there is no diversion of land from other crops to sugar, at least to start with. Not very sustainable in years when the harvest is poor.
3. As someone else said you're not factoring in transportation cost. LNG from the Middle East comes to India at about $14 per million BTU. At that price its akin to importing oil. Even at $8/mln BTU, which is what the govt. proposes to pay for KG-D6 gas, domestic supplies are far cheaper (provided it starts flowing) only then does greater usage of CNG in cars make sense.
4. Will not happen until we fix our Nuclear Liability Law, and even then a nuke plant takes 10 years to build.
5. Tripling power generation is not the full story. You can build the plant but do you have the fuel to run it? The answer so far in a "coal surplus" country such as India has been no. Coal India has been unable to raise production in the last few years. Imported coal produces expensive power and there are other issues.

The only quick fix to power issues, seems to be solar. Lots of it and off-grid.
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Old 3rd June 2014, 20:59   #32
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Default Re: E85 fuel for India?

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Originally Posted by Diesel_convert View Post
[*]We are the worlds largest producer of sugar cane and ethanol is a by-product. (production in 1000's of million liters).
If I am not mistaken, sugar by product (molasses) is used in producing cheap liquor. If so there could be implications like lobbying etc.
Also is there a danger of someone abusing this fuel as alternative to cheap liquor?
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Old 3rd June 2014, 21:08   #33
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Default Re: E85 fuel for India?

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Originally Posted by gsurya View Post
  1. There is abundance of gas that can be imported from Middle East, Iran etc - we dont even produce all car components anyway
  2. We need to expedite nuclear projects that were pushed by the last Govt
  3. We tripled our power generation since 2004, now we need to move even faster
Efficient generation but inefficient consumption still results in escalating prices. Again, not sustainable.

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Originally Posted by gsurya View Post
  1. If I can get into an AC bus, metro or local to get anywhere in the city without a big crowd crush I would certainly not use my car daily to work
Exactly. +1.

The priority for the government should be to help the mass of people who do not NEED personal automobiles get from point A to B, not to make energy cheaper to those who WANT to consume it.
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Old 3rd June 2014, 22:16   #34
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Default Re: E85 fuel for India?

Ethanol is produced primarily from sugarcane, however the problem is that sugarcane is a very water intensive (1500 to 2500 mm) crop. It takes 12-18 months to get a mature crop, so not sure how viable is the plan to generate Ethanol from cane. So I believe we need to look at alternate ways to generate ethanol/ biofuels for a sustainable growth.
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Old 5th June 2014, 12:51   #35
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Default Re: E85 fuel for India?

Saw on the box today - what is being achieved is about 3% Ethanol!!
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Old 5th June 2014, 13:28   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tj123 View Post
Ethanol is produced primarily from sugarcane, however the problem is that sugarcane is a very water intensive (1500 to 2500 mm) crop. It takes 12-18 months to get a mature crop, so not sure how viable is the plan to generate Ethanol from cane. So I believe we need to look at alternate ways to generate ethanol/ biofuels for a sustainable growth.
Not saying we should grow more cane, once cane is processed leftover material is currently being burned to generate steam which is an inefficient way of using it.

Instead if a market for ethanol is created sugar mills can ferment the leftovers to produce ethanol and blend with petrol.




In terms of an efficient bio fuel crop suited to India nothing beats pongamia pinnata to produce bio diesel.

But this is a resource that's currently being underutilised thanks to some strong lobbying to keep prices artificially low.


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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
Saw on the box today - what is being achieved is about 3% Ethanol!!
Its about 10% in Karnataka.

The potential to produce it is there, if you take all qualities of alcohol being produced its about 2300 million litres per year.

This is with a price of 40rs per liter of dry ethanol including 16%vat.

If a bigger market is there more mills will be able to set up ethanol producing units and the bagasse won't be wasted.

Currently Brazil has a 50:50 consumption ratio between ethanol and petrol.

We already produce more cane than Brazil.
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Old 9th June 2014, 14:47   #37
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Default Re: E85 fuel for India?

Being realistic, we should know that alternate fuel won't happen profitably and on a mass scale in the near term. For decades to come, we’ll need to continue extracting oil and natural gas. Projections show fuel consumption will increase by 50% for the next 25 years, which means that we have to extract fossil fuels more than ever before. Governments across the world will need a telescope - microscope approach in balancing the act between fuels of the future and fossil fuels.

Today, we only extract about 30% of the oil in our existing reserves, leaving billions of barrels in reservoirs, which is unfortunate as the cost of a drilling one new well is about $100 million. With a 2% increase in recovery from existing wells there would be enough crude oil for 6 month's consumption world wide, lowering the cost of fuel. Put simply, this is where all governments need to focus now with the microscope. This means gathering and managing data from across the entire production stream, in vast quantities. One oil field alone can generate the equivalent of 950 GB worth of data in a day. Making sense of all this information is critical for better decision making about production and management and further exploration.
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Old 9th June 2014, 15:34   #38
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Default Re: E85 fuel for India?

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Originally Posted by Coupé View Post
Today, we only extract about 30% of the oil in our existing reserves, leaving billions of barrels in reservoirs, which is unfortunate as the cost of a drilling one new well is about $100 million. With a 2% increase in recovery from existing wells there would be enough crude oil for 6 month's consumption world wide, lowering the cost of fuel.
Technology exists to increase crude recovery further, even 50% and beyond, the issue is costs. Its viable only if crude pricing gets to 120 USD or so at present cost prices... will only keep increasing.
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Old 22nd May 2015, 18:43   #39
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Default Re: E85 fuel for India?

Ministry of Road Transport & Highways issues notification for mass emission standards for flex-fuel ethanol E85 and ED9
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The Ministry of Road Transport & Highways today released the Notification for mass emission standards for flex-fuel ethanol E85 and ED95 in vehicles. The Ministry has notified the test requirements for Type Approval and extension for two, three and four-wheeled vehicles. It has also notified the technical specifications of reference fuel E85 and ED95 used for testing of such vehicles. This Notification will enable vehicle manufacturers to manufacture vehicles running on bio-ethanol E85 and ED95. A bio-ethanol fuel bus is already under trial in Nagpur.
http://pib.nic.in/newsite/PrintRelea...x?relid=121861
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