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Old 15th September 2014, 17:29   #106
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Default Re: Government of India to redraft 26-year old Indian Motor Vehicle Law

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Originally Posted by rama75
In case of "compounding" too, Police mama might say " You've jumped the red signal. Go to the court and pay a fine of Rs.15000 or pay Rs.2000 to me and carry on!!!
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Originally Posted by srishiva
Even if the Police come up short on enforcing, the very fact that the fines are big will deter most people from breaking the law.
Yes, the fines are heavy. That means bribes would also become equally heavy. Currently fines for some offences are paltry sum like Rs.100 and Rs.500. Today this is pittance. And police would certainly demand bribes which is lesser than this. The deterrent factor is the hefty fines, and the police expected to ask hefty bribes . The whole idea is that whether it is fine or bribe, the giver should know the pain and the pinch on the pocket. And I do feel that heavy fines are required. The assumption that police would take bribes, so paltry amounts should be kept as fines is just an excuse.

I am sure when the debate becomes stronger on this law, many people would bring the excuse of bribery. But the government should go with the stricter law and fines. We are in a big mess mainly because of the passing the buck & making excuses culture.

Last edited by sachinpk : 15th September 2014 at 17:34.
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Old 15th September 2014, 17:40   #107
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Default Re: Government of India to redraft 26-year old Indian Motor Vehicle Law

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In case of "compounding" too, Police mama might say " You've jumped the red signal. Go to the court and pay a fine of Rs.15000 or pay Rs.2000 to me and carry on!!!" I am not sure how these sort of extortions are going to ironed out.
+1
It will take time to get the new law its implementation maturity levels. And during the transition, there would be hardships and mostly the law abiding drivers will be at the receiving end, from crooked cops/officers.

And dash cams with all-round video/audio would become the norm soon, after the law is passed. (Just like the Russian scene, where the insurance scam led to it).
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Old 15th September 2014, 18:07   #108
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Default Re: Government of India to redraft 26-year old Indian Motor Vehicle Law

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And during the transition, there would be hardships and mostly the law abiding drivers will be at the receiving end, from crooked cops/officers.
The new law plans to bring in heavy automation when it comes to traffic law enforcement. On the highlights document it states that in Urban areas the focus would be on automating traffic law enforcement. So there may be a plan to slowly phase out manual checking by the Traffic Police. Highway Police may be focusing more on speed violations etc., and they would have equipments for that.

There is also another aspect regarding bribes etc. Today many people pay up the fine just because the amount is less. Will any one get into heated arguments with a traffic police man, when he can just pay Rs.100 as fine, collect the receipt and walk off? Where as when the fines increase people also would just not pay up; especially when they know the pain of losing such huge amounts of money. Heck, in Kerala there were people who approached High Courts because the police did not follow the correct procedures when they used Sec.185 (drunken driving) for charging them. The reason fines are much more heavier (Rs.3000). The court quashed proceedings under Sec. 185 but charges on Sec.184 (rash & dangerous driving) was allowed. But the fine is Rs.1000/-.
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Old 15th September 2014, 18:31   #109
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Default Re: Government of India to redraft 26-year old Indian Motor Vehicle Law

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Originally Posted by sachinpk View Post
The new law plans to bring in heavy automation when it comes to traffic law enforcement. On the highlights document it states that in Urban areas the focus would be on automating traffic law enforcement. So there may be a plan to slowly phase out manual checking by the Traffic Police. Highway Police may be focusing more on speed violations etc., and they would have equipments for that.
Does the law has provision for these automation to be in place before enforcing? If so well and good. If not, as I said, the drivers are at their own to safeguard their position. Unless the judiciary process is also expedited, bribes will continue have its days, be it whatsoever high.
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Old 15th September 2014, 19:18   #110
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Default Re: Government of India to redraft 26-year old Indian Motor Vehicle Law

Yes, a good move.

But implementation is the need of the hour. We can increase fines to a few thousand rupees, but can we stop policemen from taking 'without bill' fines? If we can do so, it will be a very serious step forward in the right direction.

I would say that it's better to give a policeman an incentive for catching people.
Downside: If you're caught for no reason and can't prove that you were not violating a rule(rare case), it could lead to an unfortunate situation where you're left with no proof to prove your innocence and have to end up coughing a large amount (and your license may get withdrawn.)
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Old 15th September 2014, 19:47   #111
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Default Re: Government of India to redraft 26-year old Indian Motor Vehicle Law

Laws should be tough, but should stop short of being draconian. Heavy fines would definitely act as deterrents, but imagine what I could do if some traffic cop stops me and says "am going to give you a challan for speeding, which will cost you 15K. But you could make it go away for 100 bucks. Am sure every traffic cop is going to flag down a car/bike every time he wants a coffee.
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Old 15th September 2014, 20:02   #112
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Default Re: Government of India to redraft 26-year old Indian Motor Vehicle Law

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Originally Posted by bejoy View Post
Does the law has provision for these automation to be in place before enforcing? If so well and good. If not, as I said, the drivers are at their own to safeguard their position. Unless the judiciary process is also expedited, bribes will continue have its days, be it whatsoever high.
Great. That is exactly what is needed. Fear of being fined and thus stopping at yellow light rather than racing ahead. Not committing the most minor offense that could be used against you is a good kind of fear that heavy fines will instill.
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Old 15th September 2014, 22:17   #113
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Default Re: Government of India to redraft 26-year old Indian Motor Vehicle Law

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Laws should be tough, but should stop short of being draconian. Heavy fines would definitely act as deterrents, but imagine what I could do if some traffic cop stops me and says "am going to give you a challan for speeding, which will cost you 15K. But you could make it go away for 100 bucks. Am sure every traffic cop is going to flag down a car/bike every time he wants a coffee.
Well in many places this happens even today right? And for speeding naturally since the fines are going to be heavy, people for sure would ask for evidence. A traffic police man just stopping and saying you are over-speeding would not work. When people know they will lose Rs.15K, naturally they would check for evidences.

For people who say there should not be heavy fines, because police men would take lesser amounts as bribe. Then we should not have any rules and laws, am I right? Any way the police would take bribes and let go people. So let us have a completely law-less society. Any body can do any thing, and get away by bribing. But then we should stop complaining about unruly drivers (to start with), eve-teasers, child-molestors and up and up in the crime ladder.

Since the draft bill is open for comments, let us also try to get some sections added which would decide penalty for traffic officers prosecuting people WITHOUT solid evidence. For bribery there are existing provisions to trap people. Perhaps with bigger amounts now at stake, people may start using every possible means to trap a bribe taker (cameras, sound recorders and even going to the Vigilance & Anti Corruption Bureau).
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Old 15th September 2014, 22:59   #114
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Default Re: Government of India to redraft 26-year old Indian Motor Vehicle Law

Redrafting the archaic MV law is a step in the right direction.
I have said this before and will say it again. Having a law on paper is not enough.
Enforcement is key - and for that enforcers need to be adequately trained , incentivized and enabled.


So, too - the auto industry and the auxilliary insurance industry must be given direction to improve their products and offerings from a road-safety perspective.

The whole eco-system needs to work as an integrated whole. Until that happens, this law will stay in the books!
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Old 16th September 2014, 01:24   #115
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You know what I would like?
I'd like for every incident to have a ticket associated with it. If I'm stopped by a cop, it should immediately be assigned a number by some automated system not in the hands of the cop. At the end of a cycle, that cop's sheet of stoppages should be pulled up, and checked against the number of challans he's issued.
Some may be genuine cases he'll be letting go of, but above a certain percentage should raise some signals. Maybe make some random calls to people asking about their run in with the fuzz.
No challans without evidence.
If not cameras on the street, put cameras on the cops.

The weakest link in the current system is not just the bribe giver, but also the cop who's willing to accept it.
People come out and say they're not paid well. So? Nobody put a gun to their heads. Do something else.
And if they're not paid enough, isn't THAT what the government should also be addressing?

Make them reviewable and accountable.


These 15k and above challans, the day they come into force, yes, you'll see a lot of people adjusting their aggression, but you'll also see the cops on the street being extra vigorous, and extra rich.

Having seen how openly the cops ask for bribes, and how helpless a common guy is, faced with a threat of seizing the car and having everything inside sold off or pilfered(it happens, no two ways about it), even the most principled person has no option but to bitterly pay out.
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Old 16th September 2014, 04:12   #116
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Default Re: Government of India to redraft 26-year old Indian Motor Vehicle Law

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Originally Posted by mayankk View Post
Having seen how openly the cops ask for bribes, and how helpless a common guy is, faced with a threat of seizing the car and having everything inside sold off or pilfered(it happens, no two ways about it), even the most principled person has no option but to bitterly pay out.
+1

Once I got into a one-way street in the wrong direction and was promptly caught by a cop. Fair enough. He wanted a 100 Rs bribe, on which I asked for a receipt given that the fine for breaking this law is Rs. 100. Why pay bribe? What next, he put three charges on me - Rash Driving, Overspeeding and breaking the No-Entry rule.

Ended up paying 300 bucks just coz i did not want to heed to the corrupt cop. Imagine the scene now with the hefty fines proposed.


Offtopic: I was riding my Kinetic Honda (poorly maintained) which could barely cough up to commutable speeds....and I got charged for overspeeding.
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Old 16th September 2014, 07:58   #117
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Default Re: Government of India to redraft 26-year old Indian Motor Vehicle Law

IMO the intent of raising the fines to hefty levels is to deter people from breaking the rules and getting off cheaply. There will always be a few people who will continue to break the law anyways.

Just imagine if you broke a signal and had to pay Rs. 5,000/- instead of the present Rs. 100/-. Even if the cop takes 50%, it will hurt a lot more than paying Rs. 50/-.

If the government steps up enforcement, most people will observe the traffic rules.
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Old 16th September 2014, 08:41   #118
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Default Re: Government of India to redraft 26-year old Indian Motor Vehicle Law

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During my Recent drive to Lucknow Via Ahemdabad/ Udiapur / Delhi from Mumbai; I came across few incidences which made me upset.

Why the life of a common Indian is so cheap. Is Government responsible for this or we as a citizen. Why we canít make some strict rules against these taxi operators.
It's not just the taxi operators. If we can have a good public transport system in place then this will not arise. It the lack of a good system that creates a demand for these services and the exploitation of the aam jantha.
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Old 16th September 2014, 08:41   #119
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Red face Re: Government of India to redraft 26-year old Indian Motor Vehicle Law

Vehicle recall is also being included in the draft Road transport and Safety bill. It will be mandatory for the car manufacturers to announce the recall in case of defective model instead of hiding behind the Voluntary recalls. In case of more than 100 complaints regarding a defect in the model, the authority will recall the cars on its own instead of waiting for the car manufacturer to announce this. The classic example where this will be effective will be in the recent tread started by Rk Ranjan for his Chevy Captiva which caught fire.

Atleast there is a right direction this time regarding the recalls. More details in the link.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/i...w/42480282.cms
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Old 16th September 2014, 10:08   #120
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Default Re: Government of India to redraft 26-year old Indian Motor Vehicle Law

With most intersections having video camera surveillance, just making sure that the video evidence is mandated for fines should solve most of the inconsistencies, rite?
For eg, before booking for drunk driving, carry out those 'under influence' tests as in the west, record it with the police car dash cam, and then only book.
Rash driving etc, can be easily identified by intersection cams.
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