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Old 18th June 2014, 19:31   #16
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Default Re: Market for fake auto parts continues to thrive in India

Almost all spare dealers also stock these. The honest ones tell you which is which, the code for fake is 'D'.
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Old 18th June 2014, 20:07   #17
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Default Re: Market for fake auto parts continues to thrive in India

Agree with mostly everything that you have written , one of the reasons why 99RPM became so popular was simply because of this fact - that one you got original parts and second;y ofcourse at cheaper than dealer prices. I think a lot of people would be happy to pay a little premium in terms of price over a fake part if the supply chain was good and not limited at the dealership level.

However there is possibly one more aspect to consider in this - dealers also make a lot of money on labor charges - and almost every type of work outside of the free services carry this charge - whether one goes for a paid service or to get 1 item worked upon - while i do not have numbers , making these parts available outside from their perspective hits revenues on the parts themselves but then also rolls over to a further impact through labor charges and this might be another reason in keeping the supply chain so confined.




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Originally Posted by mikem View Post
If only they would sell their parts at most Non-Dealer outlets. They could increase their sales of parts by at-least a good 25% on the whole.

ACMA should fund a survey to find out how many people are willing to purchase original parts if they were available outside the dealer. Afterall, how many of us have spent a good hour to get a bottle of Original Steering fluid at a dealer? I have at Honda. They wouldn't sell it to me without having the car entered into the system, making a job card, and then releasing the power steering fluid from stores, and the rest of the procedure to get the car back.

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Old 20th June 2014, 13:57   #18
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Default Re: Market for fake auto parts continues to thrive in India

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30 to 40%? I'm surprised by these numbers primarily because very few owners go outside authorized service stations to get their cars serviced these days. When the owners have paid lakhs for their cars, its unlikely they'll risk getting it serviced outside. I'm talking about the core car sales customer who typically buys a car with a budget of Rs. 4 lacs to Rs. 10 Lacs.

I have a feeling ACMA is inflating their percentage estimates (for shock value).
On the contrary, I feel that most owners (maybe outside this forum) go to the Kashmere Gate and Palika Market kind of places that are hubs for auto servicing and spares !
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Old 22nd June 2014, 00:39   #19
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Default Re: Market for fake auto parts continues to thrive in India

I dont find anything wrong in using fake parts in cars which has crossed their warranty, provided they can assure that the "fakes" used are of first quality.I repeat, "If they can find first quality".For example, I have no reason to believe that break pads from Bosch would be inferior in quality. Their wiper blades last double of an OEM blade and cost less than half.

I believe that the manufacturers promote the use of original parts just to increase their revenue as selling spares form a big chunk of their income. My i20 had an accident after which I had to replace the turbo intercooler. I had to shell out 40K for a replacement and that is almost 10 percent of the factory cost of a new car. does it make any sense that a single small part in a car costs one tenth of the total car manufacturing cost?

The OEM manufatured parts are also the local available spare with their logo included.

Having said all this, I have never used fake in my car.After all, I am a BHP'ian and I love my car. That one percent chance of anything going wrong is preventing me from taking any chance.
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Old 22nd June 2014, 01:29   #20
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Default Re: Market for fake auto parts continues to thrive in India

Prices have increased even for FIAT even though it isn't doing well in the market.

I stay away from the highest variants of cars for similar reasons. If there is a feature in the car that isn't working, I'm tempted to rectify/replace it.

Also, the top most model is usually the 'Flagship' model and IMO is generally overpriced by quite a bit already.

My friend audits the accounts of a dealership (sorry, won't be disclosing more), and informs they make 8% on spares & 2% on sales. The sales part is actually low, but the service & spares is where the dealer makes a very healthy amount. Apart from this they make a healthy amount on things like engine oil & consumables.

Yet they 'manage' accounts to show bare basic profits.

Companies allow this because they don't have the resources to manage local skilled labour, else you'd have definitely have seen COCO service centers by now!

Apart from that, if the dealers often try to get in touch with fake part sellers and even change.

He tells me that the only way to curb this is to ask them for the bill/packaging of the stuff you use - always take a pic of the stuff you'll.
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Old 22nd June 2014, 01:55   #21
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Default Re: Market for fake auto parts continues to thrive in India

When I spoke to an authorized service station owner who happens to be my dad's friend. Thats when I came to know a shocking reality. That is - Every 'lot' of spare parts supplied by any supplier to any manufacturer goes through testing. If the test fails, then, those set of spares are sent back to the component manufacturer itself. These spares which are rejected by any car manufacturer makes its easy way in to the so called 'fake' market.

On a contrary, in the countries where consumers are well protected, the scenario is different. When a single spare part in a 'lot' is found defective, then the whole lot of spares are destroyed in the car manufacturing facility itself. And, that is not sent back to the spare part manufacturer.

Therefore, in a way, our car manufacturers have a role in fake spare parts (although its very less).
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Old 22nd June 2014, 05:57   #22
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Default Re: Market for fake auto parts continues to thrive in India

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Originally Posted by nettooran View Post
I dont find anything wrong in using fake parts in cars which has crossed their warranty, provided they can assure that the "fakes" used are of first quality.I repeat, "If they can find first quality".For example, I have no reason to believe that break pads from Bosch would be inferior in quality. Their wiper blades last double of an OEM blade and cost less than half.

...

Having said all this, I have never used fake in my car.After all, I am a BHP'ian and I love my car. That one percent chance of anything going wrong is preventing me from taking any chance.
If you consider Bosch spares among the 'fake' parts, I suppose you can safely go ahead with such parts in your car. I've found Bosch replacements to be of better quality than the OEM spares.

For example, the glow plugs of the Swift diesel are factory fitted with Bosch but the replacement MGA part is apparently some other brand and is not as durable as per my mechanic. He insisted on getting the Bosch plug from Bosch outlet outside instead of going for MGP when I had to replace one of the them. According to him, the quality control for Bosch is typically on par with European standards while the OEM spares here have quality control as per Indian standards.

However, going for a spare that actually has better quality than OEM part is not really what we are considering in the current context. By that definition, someone who upgrades from stock JK tyres to Michelin is also replacing a 'genuine part' with a 'fake part'. I believe most of the BHPians including myself would be running on 'fake' tyres under that definition.

I think the discussion is only referring to cheap, lower quality fakes with the fake branding/logos as well as those Chinese imports that come at half the price. Even those are running on a considerable fraction of the vehicles that are older than 5 years for which the owners are looking at the minimum cost to get it back on road every time it visits a workshop.
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Old 22nd June 2014, 07:58   #23
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Default Re: Market for fake auto parts continues to thrive in India

Equally important like the genuine and authentic spare parts is the quality of yje lubricants used and the way in which they are handled. If not properly handled the lubricants will let in lot of impurities with the lube change activity which has far reaching consequences. I have seen many small MASS in smaller towns, doing this with reckless abandon and also the use of improper lubricants.
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Old 22nd June 2014, 09:30   #24
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Guys, lets not confuse non OEM with fake. Sometimes non OEM parts may be higher performance than OEM parts at lower or same cost.

I think the supply of good quality non OEM parts will increase going forward as more well built cars come into the used car market.

I went to my mechanic last week and he was rebuilding a Ford Fiesta tdci engine. And I could see the gaskets and other spares were " made in Taiwan". I asked him about it and he said these are the only kind of parts available in the market. And there are different levels of quality available . He told me he's been doing this for years as original parts are hard to come by for all brands of cars outside.


I think when the demand for spares in the used car market tips over and manufacturing industry in India matures, they will seek the license TO manufacture high quality parts.

And as with other industries, the repair guys will gravitate to higher quality and reliable parts

Last edited by drsingh : 22nd June 2014 at 09:32.
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Old 22nd June 2014, 09:51   #25
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Default Re: Market for fake auto parts continues to thrive in India

Fake is not the same as OE parts (or equivalent) from a good brand. In many cases the stuff is available from the original manufacturer or an alternate of good quality. Like Dampers used in a lot of cars are Gabriel or Armstrong, so why not buy these are save some moolah!
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Old 22nd June 2014, 19:44   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
Fake is not the same as OE parts (or equivalent) from a good brand. In many cases the stuff is available from the original manufacturer or an alternate of good quality. Like Dampers used in a lot of cars are Gabriel or Armstrong, so why not buy these are save some moolah!
+1. I purchased TRW shocks for my elantra at much cheaper rate. They are not OE parts , but are good quality parts manufactured in germany and reliable.
I could also find cheap, lower quality, unknown brand parts from auto shops , but the risk of premature failure and risk is more.
Not all Non-OE parts are fake.
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Old 22nd June 2014, 20:00   #27
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Default Re: Market for fake auto parts continues to thrive in India

I have been a victim of fake spare parts many times. The spares for Yamaha RX aren't easily available and many a times I have taken chance with these type of spare parts which do not even last a year. Lesson learnt, off late I do not buy spares unless it is available at the dealership.
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Old 24th June 2014, 09:39   #28
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Default Re: Market for fake auto parts continues to thrive in India

Had a similar incident with FIAT. Had got a friends Linea serviced at FASS in TVM and as requested the timing chain had been replaced but the issue resurfaced shortly. Since the car was under warranty he was reluctant to take the car to an outside garage. We later got the timing chain checked outside the dealer for premature failure and it was brought to notice that the one replaced was counterfeit.
Even authorized dealers have resorted to counterfeit parts for fast moving items. Who is to blame?
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Old 24th June 2014, 11:13   #29
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Default Re: Market for fake auto parts continues to thrive in India

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Originally Posted by Nimish anthony View Post
Had a similar incident with FIAT. Had got a friends Linea serviced at FASS in TVM and as requested the timing chain had been replaced but the issue resurfaced shortly. Since the car was under warranty he was reluctant to take the car to an outside garage. We later got the timing chain checked outside the dealer for premature failure and it was brought to notice that the one replaced was counterfeit.
Even authorized dealers have resorted to counterfeit parts for fast moving items. Who is to blame?
I think such issue should be taken up with Fiat higher ups and generally they take corrective action. Even now, after every service or after any (even) minor repair where job card is made and closed, I get a call from Pune Fiat office to check whether I had any complaints and feed back on job done.

If you need their e mail ids please send me a private message.
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Old 24th June 2014, 11:48   #30
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Default Re: Market for fake auto parts continues to thrive in India

There were similar instances of customers being duped. When inquired about the scam inside sources of FASS Tvm revealed that spurious spares were not stocked in the service centre. They would order spurious spares from the local supplier who had a tie up agreement with a few people of the management.
These parts would move to cars with technicians and service advisers who were in support of the management. Its done in such a professional way that even fiat officials would not be able to notice the parts replaced. Even critical engine components were found to be spurious. It was informed to the Quality Control wing of fiat. The dealer continues to do the same and with just one dealer people have no other way out. A company which is trying for resurgence can be easily killed with such unhealthy practices.

Since the same has been personally experienced i have advised co owners to order parts from 99 rpm and do the service outside.

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Originally Posted by alavandar View Post
I think such issue should be taken up with Fiat higher ups and generally they take corrective action. Even now, after every service or after any (even) minor repair where job card is made and closed, I get a call from Pune Fiat office to check whether I had any complaints and feed back on job done.

If you need their e mail ids please send me a private message.
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