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Old 5th September 2014, 21:38   #16
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Default Re: India: Hybrid or Electric variants for all cars?

Hi Akash, you are going to hate me for this, but let me ask you something:

Do you even remotely understand the economics, engineering, environmental impact and logistics implications of hybrids and electric vehicles? Did you pause for a minute to consider, before opening this thread, why we have not seen an electric / hybrid variant of every car on the road, even in the most developed and richest countries across the world?

A quick real life anecdote here on Teachers' Day. There was this pretty lady who suddenly took it into her head that she wanted to get herself a degree from UK, after passing one of the toughest exams in the world. She tried and tried, half a dozen times over the next 4 years, and finally approached her teacher in the Indian college (who, incidentally, had that degree) to ask for tips on how to clear the exam. The teacher knew her potential as a student pretty well, and told her on her face that it's an impossible task.

But, Sir, I really want to get that degree so desperately!

The teacher stared at her for a long minute, then told the lady, with a very sad expression on his face:
It's not possible to get everything you want, even if you want it desperately. I desperately want to kiss you passionately on your cheeks right now, but obviously that is not possible.

The same applies to wanting an electric / hybrid version for all cars.
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Old 5th September 2014, 22:00   #17
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Default Re: India: Hybrid or Electric variants for all cars?

Certainly Shom sir, To simply put my point of view, For me as a layman Electric and Hybrid cars are way more eco-friendly than the diesel/ petrol cars that are driven on the Indian roads.

On the maintenance front they are more easy on the pocket than the diesel and petrol cars we have. Sir, at a point of time in India, we had just two options i.e Diesel and Petrol and not even remotely did anyone think that one day CNG or LPG run cars will be driven on Indian roads but that thought turned into reality and surely to build the needful infrastructure for them, the resources were analyzed and properly allocated. India was same at that time too but an attempt was made to implement something new and something which can be more consumer friendly. In the initial stages CNG/ LPG stations were few but with time their number increased.

At present, the volume of electric or hybrid cars in India is minuscule as compared to the diesel/ petrol variants and even far lesser in comparison to LPG/ CNG run vehicles. In case the Hybrid technology would not have come in India then the Honda Civic Hybrid or Toyota's Camary or for that matter any Toyota Prius would not have been sold here.

There are brands who have attempted to sell Hybrid and Electrical cars in India but our thought process and the infrastructure is so narrow that implementing a change appears to a herculean task. But, I might sound highly optimistic, this Hybrid and Electric Variant concept is not that difficult to be implemented here. After all, it was our planners only who found CNG and LPG as a good alternative for petrol and diesel. So, even this idea is not that far off.

At present, Dealers are selling LPG and CNG cars and people are buying them simply because they are far economical. Therefore, it is we the end customer who popularize a concept or make a concept die it's unnatural death.

Lastly, My idea to open up the thread was to know the views of members about the feasibility of selling the Hybrid/ Electric variant of cars by the automotive brands here. Agreement and Dis-agreement is definitely a healthy way to know the pros and cons of a idea. Had a similar question been asked by someone to me a decade back about CNG/ LPG cars in India then even my reaction would have been the same as your's. But, we all agree to one simple thing i.e the only thing that is constant in nature is "Change".

Thanks.

Last edited by ad3952n : 5th September 2014 at 22:14. Reason: edit
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Old 5th September 2014, 22:19   #18
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Default Re: India: Hybrid or Electric variants for all cars?

AD, Can you answer a few questions:

1) What about the shortage of electricity supply that some cities / towns that witness in India?

2) What about the power cuts that we are facing currently? (to get you a feel, we here in Hyderabad have 4-6 hours of powercut everyday in residential areas whereas the industries have 2 full days of power cut in a week and the rest of the 4 days 6 hours power cut).

3) Subsidies - From the government, what about this?

4) Demand, though this will come if prices are range of usage increase.

Anurag.
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Old 5th September 2014, 22:31   #19
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Default Re: India: Hybrid or Electric variants for all cars?

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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
AD, Can you answer a few questions:

1) What about the shortage of electricity supply that some cities / towns that witness in India?

2) What about the power cuts that we are facing currently? (to get you a feel, we here in Hyderabad have 4-6 hours of powercut everyday in residential areas whereas the industries have 2 full days of power cut in a week and the rest of the 4 days 6 hours power cut).

3) Subsidies - From the government, what about this?
Anurag bhai, When an idea is to be implemented then needful infrastructure is prepared for it as I said above. When the concept of Metro rail came in India, it was taken into account that pan-India there is shortage of electricity and the issue needs to addressed before implementing this idea. So, needful was done (at-least in Delhi-NCR).

See, as far as government is concerned, Indian government has the record of coming up with some very helpful and constructive ideas that have made our life easy. I do hope in all my best senses that Hybrid and Electric cars can never be condemned by the government if this idea is taken into consideration in a proper way.

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Old 5th September 2014, 22:36   #20
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Default Re: India: Hybrid or Electric variants for all cars?

I agree but what is the level of R&D going in the automobile sector for the electric / hybrid vehicles?

Any idea?

Anurag.
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Old 5th September 2014, 22:43   #21
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Default Re: India: Hybrid or Electric variants for all cars?

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Originally Posted by ad3952n View Post
Do you think, all the existing car brands in India should provide the customers with a choice of either a Electric or Hybrid variants too in all their car models and all segments? Will these Hybrid or Electric variants of cars sell respectably in front of their Petrol and Diesel cousins?
Dear AD, excellent thread to start and one which I believe over the next 5 years will have very different arguments on it than the first three not so encouraging responses. Ultimately laws and economics decide these things. In 1998 CNG was not on any one's radar till the Supreme Court made it mandatory for autos and DTC buses in Delhi-NCR. In the 1950s the jet engine had been in service 12 years and yet Douglas and Lockeed and the British Bristol aircraft continued to build bigger and (they believed better) piston engined airliners till in 1959 the Boeing 707 in one sweep made them all obsolete. Similarly the fans of the internal combustion will resist change till either laws or economics of fuel costs will drive the change. I for one passionately believe that first hybrids and then all-electrics will come. The all-electrics will significantly increase the demand for amps and watts and some of it or all of it will come from non-emitting sources like hydro or nuclear or solar. It will take time but it will happen even within the lifetimes of middle aged folks like me.


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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Do you even remotely understand the economics, engineering, environmental impact and logistics implications of hybrids and electric vehicles? Did you pause for a minute to consider, before opening this thread, why we have not seen an electric / hybrid variant of every car on the road, even in the most developed and richest countries across the world?
Dear SS-Traveller, 100 years ago the infrastructure to support the IC powered automobiles did not exist either. It got developed because of the demand for these services (petrol pumps, garages, air pressure points) got generated and because the governments of most countries in their time built roads. Similarly if the Govt provides the initial kick start for the hybrid-electric movement the rest will gradually follow. Remember there were no airports of consequence in the 1930s. But World War II and technological progress in aviation made air travel popular in the 1950s and it has grown ever since. The one challenge electrics will throw up is the potential problem of disposal of their batteries at the end of their lives. But lets solve these one step at a time. One reason you don't see electrics in the richer countries is because cars have become a symbol of status & power. You don't need a 160 bhp engine to putter 75 kgs mass of a human around a few tens of kms a day. All you need is 20hp to 35hp. The Standard Herald on which I learnt to drive developed 40 bhp when she was in a good mood. Cars these days are grossly overpowered to feed our egos and desire for oomph and torque IMHO. I don't know about the rest of the world but I have installed 15 amp sockets at my apartments basement next to my parking spots in anticipation....
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Old 5th September 2014, 22:43   #22
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Default Re: India: Hybrid or Electric variants for all cars?

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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
I agree but what is the level of R&D going in the automobile sector for the electric / hybrid vehicles?
Definitely, R&D about such an important concept shall surely be on. Had the automotive brands been unaware of this concept then India would have lost out on even the couple of Hybrid and Electric vehicles we have had so far.

Thanks.

Last edited by ad3952n : 5th September 2014 at 22:45.
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Old 5th September 2014, 22:55   #23
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Default Re: India: Hybrid or Electric variants for all cars?

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For me as a layman Electric and Hybrid cars are way more eco-friendly than the diesel/ petrol cars ...
@AD3952n, with the first part of your sentence here, you have have answered yourself. I think you should now move up to better understanding & knowledge
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Old 5th September 2014, 23:00   #24
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Default Re: India: Hybrid or Electric variants for all cars?

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@AD3952n, with the first part of your sentence here, you have have answered yourself. I think you should now move up to better understanding & knowledge
Sir, I would definitely love to be educated further on the topic. What I felt was, in comparison to our present cars, Electric cars are way better in terms of emission and the running cost. The damage to the environment by our present cars is way higher than the hybrid cars or electrical cars have.

Thanks

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Old 5th September 2014, 23:06   #25
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Default Re: India: Hybrid or Electric variants for all cars?

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@AD3952n,.... I think you should now move up to better understanding & knowledge
I look forward to your inputs to help us understand better. Thanks
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Old 5th September 2014, 23:08   #26
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Default Re: India: Hybrid or Electric variants for all cars?

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Originally Posted by ad3952n View Post
Certainly Shom sir, To simply put my point of view, For me as a layman Electric and Hybrid cars are way more eco-friendly than the diesel/ petrol cars that are driven on the Indian roads.
Quote:
Originally Posted by V.Narayan View Post
...if the Govt provides the initial kick start for the hybrid-electric movement the rest will gradually follow.
I don't know about the rest of the world but I have installed 15 amp sockets at my apartments basement next to my parking spots in anticipation....
Unfortunately, electrics and hybrids have proved not to be as eco-friendly as they were originally projected to be, especially for India. And then the cost burden - do check prices of equivalent fossil fuel powered cars vs. EVs and hybrids. Can any government anywhere in the world ever stand up to the challenge of subsidizing EVs & hybrids just so that consumers can save on running costs - especially if there is no reduction in environmental impact?

http://shrinkthatfootprint.com/electric-cars-green

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-22001356
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Old 5th September 2014, 23:33   #27
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Default Re: India: Hybrid or Electric variants for all cars?

Almost every car maker has the technology in hand. While they are still trying to make these cars with alternate energy sources more efficient, the technology has been developed by many car makers. Have seen documentaries about such cars being developed by many leading car makers. These documentaries itself are a decade old.

If the technology is available and still not being effectively used by even the most developed nations, then there has to be strong reasons behind it.

Obviously less polluting, more efficient variants of all cars are most welcome. Question is, why are they taking so long? Who and what is stopping/discouraging such technology being put to use?
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Old 6th September 2014, 01:30   #28
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Default Re: India: Hybrid or Electric variants for all cars?

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Originally Posted by Marauder View Post
There should be lower taxes and excise cuts on electric cars. If such steps are taken then most foreign carmakers that have hybrid technologies would bring their vehicles to India. These variants would only then sell respectably in front of their petrol/diesel cousins.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Do you even remotely understand the economics, engineering, environmental impact and logistics implications of hybrids and electric vehicles? The same applies to wanting an electric / hybrid version for all cars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
AD,
3) Subsidies - From the government, what about this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Unfortunately, electrics and hybrids have proved not to be as eco-friendly as they were originally projected to be, especially for India. And then the cost burden
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajaypjayaraj View Post
Almost every car maker has the technology in hand. Obviously less polluting, more efficient variants of all cars are most welcome. Question is, why are they taking so long?
My folks, Here is a report from Indian Express, dated 18th April 2014 in context to the discussion being done here.

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Quote:
ELECTRIC/hybrid cars (XeVs) and two-wheelers could become attractive options for the Indian buyer, with the Centre planning to offer fairly large subsidies ranging from Rs 8,000 up to R12 lakh. The ministry of heavy industries and the auto industry have now agreed on the subsidy ceiling for XeVs with a view to pushing demand for the nascent segment. They hope this will result in a manufacturing and research base for vehicles running on alternative/eco-friendly fuels.
Link: Indian Express

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Old 6th September 2014, 02:44   #29
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Default Re: India: Hybrid or Electric variants for all cars?

For a resource-anemic, polluted environment such as what we have in India, the most sustainable power source would be the hydrogen fuel cell - this is of course, if/when it ever becomes a production reality here, at a price-point to match.

Electrics/hybrids tend to apportion their resource consumption/costs at an upstream point that make it appear that they are more ecofriendly.

And another more relevant shortcoming of electrics in India would be the lack of power availabilty countrywide that would render any charging infrastructure less usable.
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Old 6th September 2014, 06:41   #30
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Default Re: India: Hybrid or Electric variants for all cars?

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My folks, Here is a report from Indian Express, dated 18th April 2014 in context to the discussion being done here.
Ah ! That "reliable" source ... & using that as a source to start a thread !!! It's like following the Times of India's property fairs as proof of the boom in real-estate .
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