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Old 1st February 2008, 22:52   #316
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Nice thread, Samurai and one I would agree with. My roomie in boston is an IT Pro and could easily afford a far better car than the Accord that he drives. After pushing him for years, he is finally contemplating between a 'Vette and a BMW. I think a lot lies in the conservatist attitude of IT pros. Why only cars...I have not seen too many IT Pros with a flashy lifestyle.

Without meaning to offend any, I think it also has a lot to do with the religious background and upbringing. Security in the form of land assets and solid investments means a lot to some backgrounds. And the flashiest people I have come across are Gujjus and Punjus. I am a Gujarati myself.

GTO

I completely agree with you GTO, the background that most IT professionals come from have view of selfcontainment & down to earth behavour. But all said & done its the current generation of gujjus who are flashy I know a good no of kakas who own & live in one of the most expensive real estate in Mumbai & are still down to earth. I am a south indian born & brought up in Mumbai.
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Old 1st February 2008, 23:24   #317
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very interesting thread. I guess, an engineer's mind combined with a middle class upbringing, where frugal living is more valued, together contributes to suppressing the display of wealth to the outside world.

This manifests in different ways, including buying a car that is much less than what one can afford. This is a very good quality, imho :-)
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Old 2nd February 2008, 19:48   #318
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Add to that the choking cities. Small cars are more easily maneuverable.
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Old 3rd February 2008, 06:00   #319
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One more point is that IT folks may have to travel outside for work frequently and the car might be sitting idle. So many of them don't want to lock the money on a expensive car that may be sitting idle frequently.
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Old 3rd February 2008, 14:47   #320
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been good no of years now and my observation been that most of the nri returns who relocated to grow business here went in for a santro. Seen some of them still use their m800. These folks are like loaded with tons of $ stock options and all stuff, They slog it out every day.

On the contrary there are folks who are best described as the hydrogen fuels of our economy, I get the feeling that they are the sunshire consumers that are making the economy burn red hot. Their ratio is very less .. around 5-8%.

Most of them are into property, investment and making money grow.

As for me, still dreaming of house in bangalore am sandwitched, neither too rich nor too poor still I cannot afford a house/flat. Stuck in between, praying for a crash/dip in housing sector.
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Old 3rd February 2008, 16:25   #321
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I saw this news item on rediff and my first reaction was what BS, but then I gave a second thought.

I wondered what would I do if I had their kind of money. I am also an IT pro, but not that rich. No really, I took loan for my Baleno. I think I too wouldn't go for a flashy car, if I had access to infinite money, I think I'll mostly stick to C+ segment or at the most D segment, but within 20L. Don't know how to explain it, but that's what I think I will do. There is precedence, while abroad I settled for Acura 3.2TL after seriously considering BMW 328i and Lexus I300. I somehow couldn't bring myself to spend more money eventhough I could afford it.

How do I explain this. It is possible this behavior is specific to IT pros from 90s and before, where most of us came from middle class families that rarely owned cars. It may be also possible that most IT pros are not interested primarily in cars.

I am interested in thoughts members may have on this topic. I am basically trying to find out what kind of thoughts go through your head when you have to spend your own hard earned money on expensive cars. Do IT pros think differently or is it the family background that influences your choice.
The acura TL is a way better performer than the bmw and the lexus you were looking at.....so you didnt miss out on much.
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Old 6th May 2008, 12:13   #322
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It will take another 3 years at a minimum for Mahindra to incorporate these changes in the Logan. That is how it is here, it seems. Manufacturers can 'get away' with anything and as long as it is priced on the cheap, the 'paisa vasool' Indians will continue to buy a product. Witness the cars in any corporate parking lot where even those drawing more than a lac a month in salaries drive Altos and Santros. And, these cars are not their daily drivers. Sad state of affairs. Why would any manufacturer be daring and innovative?. Also, witness the abyssmal lack of interest in sports cars and alternative lifestyle vehicles even among the youth of this country. Even they buy Altos and Santros. Pathetic.
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Old 6th May 2008, 12:19   #323
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Over 1 lakh a month? I would really like to see a company where people earn over 1 lakh a month after tax as a general rule.
Even in high paying sectors, income after tax touches 1 lakh when your experience is close to 8-9 years.

People normally buy cars worth around 50-60% of their annual salary in India.
In America people who earn 50K$ a month do not buy 30K$ cars, do they?

If you take annual salary as a metric, Indians spend much more on cars than people in developed countries. How pathetic is that?
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Old 6th May 2008, 15:10   #324
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Originally Posted by nickatnite View Post
Also, witness the abyssmal lack of interest in sports cars and alternative lifestyle vehicles even among the youth of this country. Even they buy Altos and Santros. Pathetic.

Further to what tsk1979 said in his earlier post....

If you look at the amount spent on fuel its the same story.

Assume you use 100 lts of fuel a month.

In India per annum you would spend 1200 lts * Rs 51/- = 61,200/-

In the US it would be 1200 lts * $1 = $1,200/-
(Considering the current price of $3.75 a gallon this would
come to $1 a liter)

So a person drawing $50k per annum would spend 2.4% of his annual income on fuel
Whereas in India a person drawing 5L per annum would spend 12.24% of this annual income on fuel.
(Since you were talking about Youth, thats the average one would earn)
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Old 6th May 2008, 16:16   #325
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Originally Posted by Fillmore View Post
Further to what tsk1979 said in his earlier post....

If you look at the amount spent on fuel its the same story.

Assume you use 100 lts of fuel a month.

In India per annum you would spend 1200 lts * Rs 51/- = 61,200/-

In the US it would be 1200 lts * $1 = $1,200/-
(Considering the current price of $3.75 a gallon this would
come to $1 a liter)

So a person drawing $50k per annum would spend 2.4% of his annual income on fuel
Whereas in India a person drawing 5L per annum would spend 12.24% of this annual income on fuel.
(Since you were talking about Youth, thats the average one would earn)
A sports car does not have to be a V-8 gas guzzler or similar. There is no market as fuel conscious as the Japanese auto market. Check out the numerous economical, fuel-efficient and stylish sports and alternative lifestyle vehicles offered in that market by every auto major, including Suzuki. Ever driven the Suzuki cappucino, the Toyota Scion or the Honda S2000?. It is the interest in such cars, or the abyssmal lack of it, especially among the youth, in the Indian auto market that i bemoan, not the fuel efficiency. It costs the same to run one of these cars as it will an Alto.
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Old 6th May 2008, 16:27   #326
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I do not endorse your pooh pooh attitude to "paisa vasool" - and VFM, just try and remember that many of us Indians who are still in India, and earning regular paycheques in Indian Rupees, also have other priorities to think about - maybe parents medical issues, maybe kids education or whatever. Not all of us in India and indeed, on this forum even, can simply afford to blow large quantities of cash on a vehicular whim!

Alternative lifestyle vehicles and sports cars etc are fine - if they were affordable for the larger masses, do you think they would still be called alternative lifestyle vehicles? Indeed, to some of us, a Utility/ SUV is just that - to be used like it is supposed to be used, not to be kept as a "lifestyle" statement, parked in your lot!

Yes, in a sense, manufacturers have been getting away with not upgrading technology and offering more options largely because of
1. our protectionist economy for all those years after independence
2. license raj
3. zero competition

These were also to a small extent, amongst the factors which contributed to the great "brain drain" of the '70's and '80's where most chaps simply made their best efforts to get jobs outside India and buzzed off to "better themselves"!

It s only now, in the last 7-9 years, with the emergence of India as a global force to be reckoned with and the huge changes in economic growth and consequently, salaries , prosperity, awareness etc, as well as international exposure, that people's attitudes are changing, as you can clearly see. I mean a normal graduate starting out in a company 15 years ago could count himself lucky if he started with a salary of 5grand a month - maybe just enough to save a bit and put a downpayment on a bike after 6 months or so!

And dont forget, most cars bought nowadays are bought on credit/ finance/ loans - the retail finance (auto loan) market has only come of age in the last 10 years or so and even more so in the last 5 years!

However, despite the SEA CHANGES in India over the last 18 years, it is still going to be difficult to completely eradicate the "saving" and VFM mindset which is genetically pre-programmed into the average Indian and in my opinion, that is not a wrong mindset by any means. After all each one has a right to define his/ her priorities and his/ her apportioning of his/her expenditure vs income.

So therefore, give it a little time, see what changes appear in the corporate parking lots that you appear to have based this note on, and then make a judgement if you absolutely must!

Cheers

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickatnite View Post
It will take another 3 years at a minimum for Mahindra to incorporate these changes in the Logan. That is how it is here, it seems. Manufacturers can 'get away' with anything and as long as it is priced on the cheap, the 'paisa vasool' Indians will continue to buy a product. Witness the cars in any corporate parking lot where even those drawing more than a lac a month in salaries drive Altos and Santros. And, these cars are not their daily drivers. Sad state of affairs. Why would any manufacturer be daring and innovative?. Also, witness the abyssmal lack of interest in sports cars and alternative lifestyle vehicles even among the youth of this country. Even they buy Altos and Santros. Pathetic.

Last edited by shankar.balan : 6th May 2008 at 16:41.
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Old 6th May 2008, 16:54   #327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
I do not endorse your pooh pooh attitude to "paisa vasool" - and VFM, just try and remember that many of us Indians who are still in India, and earning regular paycheques in Indian Rupees, also have other priorities to think about - maybe parents medical issues, maybe kids education or whatever. Not all of us in India and indeed, on this forum even, can simply afford to blow large quantities of cash on a vehicular whim!

Alternative lifestyle vehicles and sports cars etc are fine - if they were affordable for the larger masses, do you think they would still be called alternative lifestyle vehicles? Indeed, to some of us, a Utility/ SUV is just that - to be used like it is supposed to be used, not to be kept as a "lifestyle" statement, parked in your lot!

Yes, in a sense, manufacturers have been getting away with not upgrading technology and offering more options largely because of
1. our protectionist economy for all those years after independence
2. license raj
3. zero competition

These were also to a small extent, amongst the factors which contributed to the great "brain drain" of the '70's and '80's where most chaps simply made their best efforts to get jobs outside India and buzzed off to "better themselves"!

It s only now, in the last 7-9 years, with the emergence of India as a global force to be reckoned with and the huge changes in economic growth and consequently, salaries , prosperity, awareness etc, as well as international exposure, that people's attitudes are changing, as you can clearly see. I mean a normal graduate starting out in a company 15 years ago could count himself lucky if he started with a salary of 5grand a month - maybe just enough to save a bit and put a downpayment on a bike after 6 months or so!

And dont forget, most cars bought nowadays are bought on credit/ finance/ loans - the retail finance (auto loan) market has only come of age in the last 10 years or so and even more so in the last 5 years!

However, despite the SEA CHANGES in India over the last 18 years, it is still going to be difficult to completely eradicate the "saving" and VFM mindset which is genetically pre-programmed into the average Indian and in my opinion, that is not a wrong mindset by any means. After all each one has a right to define his/ her priorities and his/ her apportioning of his/her expenditure vs income.

So therefore, give it a little time, see what changes appear in the corporate parking lots that you appear to have based this note on, and then make a judgement if you absolutely must!

Cheers
My target is not those who have other priorities and obligations. It is the segment that is young, single, upwardly mobile and in the higher income bracket that will go out and buy an Alto/Santro or such. I am anguished. My interest is not to be judgemental. I am curious as to why a whole genre of interesting vehicles find a market among youth everywhere in the world, other than India. And many of them are economical and easy to repair. Witness Dacia offeing the Sandero and some other Logan spinoffs. Mahindra will never dare introduce the same here. Or, will they?. Only time will tell, i guess.
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Old 6th May 2008, 17:09   #328
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sure nick
nothing personal - just thought Id plug in a point of view on behalf of the large number of people out there in our countrywho may have a dream, but not the means at the moment!
And I am sure you are rite - Time will tell!
As it is, the rapid development of our country is far outstripping the predictions of the pandits, so who is to say what is going to happen in the future!
All I will state is that the Indian consumer is rapidly coming of age, but his spending/ capability is tempered with a lot of good sense - a legacy of a sound value system from our forebears, I would like to believe!

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My target is not those who have other priorities and obligations. Witness Dacia offeing the Sandero and some other Logan spinoffs. Mahindra will never dare introduce the same here. Or, will they?. Only time will tell, i guess.
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Old 6th May 2008, 17:14   #329
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nickanite, your target junta which buy Alto and Santro's spend a much larger percentage of their annual income on cars.
Considering the EMI rate of 11% in India as compared to 3-4% in the US, the difference even grows.
I am yet to see anybody earning 20L a month in the corporate sector and buying an Alto as the mode of transport.
that guy will atleast buy a 10L car.
I have seen many people in US who earn 90K$/year and yet buy a 20K$ car.
Thats 1/4th of their annual income.

What do you say to that sir?

I myself bought an indica worth 3.10L when I was earning around 5L/annum.
I don't think there are many people earning 100K in US and driving 60-70K$ cars, are there?
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Old 6th May 2008, 17:32   #330
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you're probably rite tsk

the boys in our company who are at what we can consider to be good levels in life all drive Honda City's, some Accents, a sprinkling of Vernas, a light garnish of SX4's, a couple of biggish ones like Elantra Octavia, Civic, even a Merc E class (at the very top) plus a smattering of Fusions, Scorps, Innova's and Sumo Grande's for the slightly more adventurous/ alternative lifestyle-d types or just plain space-wagon boys.

Quite a change I have personally observed from 5 years ago when most of the same chaps used to drive 800's, Santro's, old Accents and so on.

The ideal thumb rule (according to some of my Finance qualified pals) is that 30-40% of your annual income can be the cost of your car - maybe 6 months gross salary equivalent or so. and about 3 to 4 years salary equivalent can be the cost of your house. More than that, and one will probably end up defaulting on the loan!

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
nickanite, your target junta which buy Alto and Santro's spend a much larger percentage of their annual income on cars.
Considering the EMI rate of 11% in India as compared to 3-4% in the US, the difference even grows.
I am yet to see anybody earning 20L a month in the corporate sector and buying an Alto as the mode of transport.
that guy will atleast buy a 10L car.
I have seen many people in US who earn 90K$/year and yet buy a 20K$ car.
Thats 1/4th of their annual income.

What do you say to that sir?

I myself bought an indica worth 3.10L when I was earning around 5L/annum.
I don't think there are many people earning 100K in US and driving 60-70K$ cars, are there?
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