Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 29th July 2014, 16:05   #16
Senior - BHPian
 
scopriobharath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 3,565
Thanked: 1,175 Times
Default Re: Proposal: Private vehicles need not pay toll; instead, extra tax on new cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiku007 View Post
Private vehicles contribute only 14% of the Toll Revenue. Allright. Does it require Rocket Science to determine how much % of Private vehicles USE the Toll Roads in the first place?

It's not about retirees. My second car has done only 13K Kms in 5 Years and has very rarely used a Toll Road (That too, not the NHAI roads but the ones Govt builds within the city to milk us). Now why on earth should a User like me pay an additional one time charge over and above the atrocious Road Tax anyways?
This is actually to "milk" people like you. Since people like you are not paying toll, usage or whatever, the govt is trying to milk you . I am totally against this rule, but again, the Govt is trying to milk people to pay toll money. Even is govt collects 10% as toll-tax, still there is no guarantee that there will be no tolled road or a dedicated lane for private vehicles.

The discussion agenda on the meeting for that proposal would have been how to make cars that do not use toll-roads, pay toll ?

This is synonymous with Income tax. For want of money, they raise tax-payer's rates but do not do anything to bring the black money back to india or get the tax evaders to pay tax.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slush_Traveller View Post
I think instead of laying a 2% on the ex-showroom price of the vehicles a fixed charge should be imposed on the cost of the vehicle, like how they charge toll for E.g.: 30 Rs for all cars 50 Rs. for Jeep/SUV/VANS and Rs.80 for Trucks/tempos etc. This would not unnecessarily increase the cost of vehicle and be acceptable as well as there would be equal charges payable for a person buying a Alto or a Octavia which have to pay same toll prices. However the fixed charged would be higher for SUV’s, Vans & other big vehicles which pay higher tolls.
They have never done that - nor will they do. The best oppurtunity was for petrol, where taxes could be a fixed amount. The objective is not to reduce the burden, but to milk the car-buyer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meetbadri View Post
This one is a real good move from the Government. This increase in tax should not be reserved only to develop the Highways but also should be used in providing good road inside the cities and towns.
Again - I doubt it. How funds would be channeled is another challenge. When road tax collected is more than what is required to maintain roads, please link what would happen to your toll tax money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolFire View Post
Apart from the differing opinions, this proposal could be quite hard to implement. Most of the toll roads are operated by private companies, who have contractual rights for the payment. Don't think they will let it go, unless compensated well. The amount of compensation could be the bone of contention for another decade (just look at the case of GST, which involves just central and state governments.)
This is the easy part. If they implement this rule today, the can give the money to the toll booth operator. The private company should be happy as long as they get money, whether it is paid by government or paid by us through usage.

Last edited by scopriobharath : 29th July 2014 at 16:18.
scopriobharath is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 29th July 2014, 16:22   #17
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 3,717
Thanked: 425 Times
Default Re: Proposal: Private vehicles need not pay toll; instead, extra tax on new cars

So if I buy a Alto for 3L I pay 6000 as one time toll tax & if I buy a 30L BMW, I pay 60,000. In the current situation, a Alto & a BMW pay the same toll passing though toll plaza's. Seems like the BMW guy is being penalised for being able to afford one especially since the government is not going to give the BMW guy a separate & better road to drive on! It's possible I will upgrade to a new car before I complete the 60,000 paid by me and when I buy a new car, I pay again! So practically, it's not a one time toll but I pay toll every time I buy a car & compared to the current set up of toll plaza's, I will be paying more as toll? That doesn't sound like a good deal to me. For someone like me, I pay Rs.1000 as toll pass for a month. So it would take me 5 years to recover the 60K I paid? That's assuming I have only one car and it's a BMW
amit is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 29th July 2014, 16:30   #18
Senior - BHPian
 
kiku007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,610
Thanked: 1,223 Times
Default Re: Proposal: Private vehicles need not pay toll; instead, extra tax on new cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit View Post
It's possible I will upgrade to a new car before I complete the 60,000 paid by me and when I buy a new car, I pay again! So practically, it's not a one time toll but I pay toll every time I buy a car & compared to the current set up of toll plaza's, I will be paying more as toll? That doesn't sound like a good deal to me.


What about the person who bought your Alto second hand? He gets to use the Toll Roads for free without paying the initial surcharge or the usual toll. That sounds tempting
kiku007 is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 29th July 2014, 16:39   #19
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 320
Thanked: 213 Times
Default Re: Proposal: Private vehicles need not pay toll; instead, extra tax on new cars

Based on the statistics provided the fuel consumed by private / commercial vehicles should be approximately the same ratio as the toll collection from private / commercial vehicles.

I am ok with raising the fuel surcharge and dispensing with the tolls completely. Multiple benefits of not having toll collecting stations are:-
1. No obstructions on the road/highway
2. Saves valuable travel time
3. No accumulation of trucks on the highway (general seen near the toll stations)
4. All our politicians will be able to travel freely without fighting with the poor chap collecting toll.
5. Since there will be no toll stations, political parties will not be able to smash toll stations

Pls feel free to add to the benefits
rpunwani is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 29th July 2014, 16:48   #20
BHPian
 
bejoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 633
Thanked: 409 Times
Default Re: Proposal: Private vehicles need not pay toll; instead, extra tax on new cars

If the new proposal comes through, I wonder why are we paying life time tax on the vehicle which is intended for the same purpose? Of course one goes to the state govt and the new proposal is for the central govt.

Also from the article, the existing vehicles need to pay Rs.1000 (guess it is one time), which is rather very low compared to Rs20k for a 10L vehicle. Again, who will ensure that the existing vehicles are paid up? checks at the toll booths? traffic pile ups again?
bejoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th July 2014, 16:52   #21
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 3,717
Thanked: 425 Times
Default Re: Proposal: Private vehicles need not pay toll; instead, extra tax on new cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiku007 View Post


What about the person who bought your Alto second hand? He gets to use the Toll Roads for free without paying the initial surcharge or the usual toll. That sounds tempting


Don't worry, I am sure government will figure out a way to tax second hand buyer's too. As it is the proposal has covered a flat amount to be charged from existing car owner's too.
amit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th July 2014, 17:51   #22
Team-BHP Support
 
noopster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 8,665
Thanked: 9,197 Times
Default Re: Proposal: Private vehicles need not pay toll; instead, extra tax on new cars

This proposal makes absolutely no sense. There is a direct correlation between toll collected and road maintenance that is very obvious. If the toll collected is not going towards upkeep and repairs of the road in question, the government needs to examine that mechanism and implement remedial measures. You don't impose additional tax burdens on car owners who may or may not use the tollways.

2% is a pretty hefty amount at micro level- Rs. 20,000 on a 10L sedan, for example. But to put things in perspective, that is just over 50 round trips on the Mumbai-Pune expressway. For those who make the run frequently, that is nothing (I must have, on conservative estimate, done more than that in 5 years living in Pune, and am not even that frequent a traveller) . Why should the vast majority of cars in Mumbai and Pune who never make the trip be forced to subsidize these guys?

Also, given the state of our bureaucracy what is the guarantee that the amount collected will ever go to the agencies who (purportedly) maintain the toll roads? Considering there is no direct correlation between number of cars sold and vehicles passing through any given toll booth how on earth are the authorities going to determine the arithmetic of who gets how much! And are toll booth operting agencies foolish that they will quietly accept such a proposal that goes beyond all commonsense?

The time is ripe to leverage technology effectively in toll collection rather than come up with harebrained populist schemes.
noopster is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 29th July 2014, 17:58   #23
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: EU - Nordic
Posts: 1,563
Thanked: 953 Times
Default Re: Proposal: Private vehicles need not pay toll; instead, extra tax on new cars

I think in a system like ours, somebody is always subsidising someone else. So if the retiree uncle subsidises the young highway warrior's highway trips, somebody else will subsidise retiree uncle's 40 or 50% concessions on train tickets. A lot of us are beneficiaries of subsidised higher education from govt colleges (I paid Rs.1200 for my 4 years of engineering). Even with the system we have now, a person who pays toll is probably subsidising 10 others who start and end their trip between two toll booths. So I think we should leave the subsidy discussion alone.

I think we should also leave the "What do we get for the road tax we pay?" discussion also out of this. We always have a revenue deficit, so it's quite clear that the money we pay in taxes isn't quite enough to take care of all sectors, even accounting for inefficiencies and corruption. I am not sure if even the least corrupt countries have revenue surplus budgets every year. Corruption also "begins at home" when we don't pay our taxes or buy stuff "without bill", create fake bills to claim medical expense reimbursement, fake rent receipts to claim HRA, under value property transactions etc.

Last edited by StarrySky : 29th July 2014 at 18:11.
StarrySky is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 29th July 2014, 18:08   #24
BHPian
 
Arkin evoisrevo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: KA03; AP02
Posts: 680
Thanked: 108 Times
Default Re: Proposal: Private vehicles need not pay toll; instead, extra tax on new cars

2% tax on a new 7 Lakh car = 14,000. Over 8 years that would be ~ Rs 146 / month (ignoring interest), which is okay with me.

I am not willing to pay up though, unless the uniform LTT rates proposed by the Central Government in 2013, starting at 6%, are introduced.

And even if the new rates are introduced, I would not like to pay an additional 2% on my existing cars on which the tax was levied at 12% and 15.54% respectively. The additional 2% can be recovered from the State governments, if need be.

Just my 2 cents.
Arkin evoisrevo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th July 2014, 18:26   #25
Distinguished - BHPian
 
saket77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Ranchi
Posts: 3,192
Thanked: 4,254 Times
Default Re: Proposal: Private vehicles need not pay toll; instead, extra tax on new cars

So, the Govt. puts this rule in effect, and every car buyer is made to pay this additional 2%. Now suppose this is arrangement is shelved after 2 years, will the Govt. refund back the extra amount which it charged the buyers with?

This is just one aspect. Wholeheartedly agree that this rule makes no sense. What is wrong with the current arrangement? It is simple and logical: pay & drive down the toll road. For other roads, I have already paid road tax for 15 years.
saket77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th July 2014, 18:58   #26
Team-BHP Support
 
tsk1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 22,955
Thanked: 15,648 Times
Default Re: Proposal: Private vehicles need not pay toll; instead, extra tax on new cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnabchak View Post
A different point of view:
.
.
.

So why here. Its the society at large that will benefit .
This is not the point.
This is about ethics.
If you want additional 2% tax on vehicles, call it vehicle tax. Do not try to call it a different name.
This is cheating.
Toll tax is for road usage.
Govt can increase excise if they want more revenue. Trying to submarine it in the guise of toll tax is cheating and thievery
tsk1979 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th July 2014, 19:31   #27
Senior - BHPian
 
scopriobharath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 3,565
Thanked: 1,175 Times
Default Re: Proposal: Private vehicles need not pay toll; instead, extra tax on new cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by noopster View Post
are toll booth operting agencies foolish that they will quietly accept such a proposal that goes beyond all commonsense?

The time is ripe to leverage technology effectively in toll collection rather than come up with harebrained populist schemes.
Toll Booth operators have a tie-up with influential people. They will have the right contacts to get 125% of the money the govt owes them, but to show a loss on paper.

I dont think toll booth company would have any issues as long as they get the money from you, me or government.
scopriobharath is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 29th July 2014, 19:34   #28
BHPian
 
anilagdr's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Kottayam
Posts: 198
Thanked: 59 Times
Default Re: Proposal: Private vehicles need not pay toll; instead, extra tax on new cars

Government of Kerala have revised the mode of road tax calculation. Until last friday the tax was calculated as a certain percentage of the basic cost of a car, but now it is calculated as a percentage of the ex-showroon price of the car. This has resulted in an increase of Rs, 13000/- on the cost of Honda city VMT diesel that I an due to take delivery of.
anilagdr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th July 2014, 19:58   #29
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: DL9C
Posts: 2,521
Thanked: 2,253 Times
Default

All this to remove congestion at tolls? What happened to the proposal to centralize the collection and use of RFID tags on all tolls?
Dry Ice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th July 2014, 20:08   #30
Senior - BHPian
 
DicKy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Thiruvanthapuram
Posts: 1,440
Thanked: 608 Times
Default Re: Proposal: Private vehicles need not pay toll; instead, extra tax on new cars

First of all can't understand why the tolls are there in the first place.
Though we are not heavily taxed, we do pay up a healthy amount on taxes and AFIAK half of the petrol price is govt taxes,duties, cess and all. Where does it go? Not the city roads that were laid decades ago and go through a shoddy patch work once in a while.

And whatever the economics behind it, can't grasp the concept of 'pay as you go' said by fellow members. Each and every Indian, intentional or unintentional has enjoyed the benefits of subsidies or other social benefits. It's like saying each citizen should pay the Army a certain amount for protection during a war.
Not that subsides are a good thing , but paying for a facility that is rightfully ours is not. National highways are the lifeline of the country and they should be accessible to all without any tolls.

Scenic roadways, expressways, bridges can be tolled. But National highways that do not have any worthy alternatives should be the govt responsibility.

The frustration behind the tolls is the lack of transparency. The collecting firm will continue to milk the users even after they recollect their expenses and also mostly the facilities provide do not deserve paying tolls.
DicKy is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Insurance claim? Pay a little extra and retain your No-Claim Bonus! parrys Indian Car Loans & Insurance 12 1st November 2017 19:11
Procedure for converting commercial vehicles to private vehicles honeybee Commercial Vehicles 19 16th September 2017 16:12
Military Green not allowed for private vehicles? satyamenon Modifications & Accessories 64 26th August 2013 16:47
Extra Large Vehicles - Registered as Private - Why scopriobharath Commercial Vehicles 6 10th January 2012 22:31
Soft Drinks, no extra service but extra charge. bblost Shifting gears 58 21st February 2011 16:03


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 09:25.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks