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Old 19th August 2014, 19:54   #46
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Default Re: RTO to be scrapped?

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Originally Posted by BeantownThinker View Post
"Mechanically propelled vehicles including the principles on which taxes on such vehicles are to be levied" is part of the Concurrent List, which means both the central and state government can legislate.

To give you an example in the current scenario, registration of vehicles conforming to emission norms are decided by Central govt and levy of various taxes are decided by the respective state govts.
Would beg to differ on the legal position. Only the "principles on which taxes on such vehicles are to be levied" is in the concurrent list. Actual taxation is in the state list (Entry 57). Also "Communications, that is to say, roads, bridges, ferries, and other means of communication not specified in List I" is in State list. Don't think Central Govt. can do much, unless States agree to this, which will not happen anytime soon

With PM reiterating strengthening of the Federal Structure, all these noises coming from various ministers or others doesn't count much. Can't believe this unless done, although every Team BHPian will be looking forward to a better RTO system.
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Old 19th August 2014, 21:08   #47
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Default Re: RTO to be scrapped?

Few questions came up to my mind

- Can the present RTO system (issue/renewal of driving licenses, FC's, Permits, Vehicle registration, etc..) be outsourced to large corporate companies? Chaos and corruption were running high in passport offices earlier and it is totally clean now. The process has much become easier for public and the touts are removed, but efficiently managed by government officers.

- How to make the new issuing authority accountable?

- Lot of RTO agents' livelihood will be at stake. I have seen some agents earn upto 50k per month even in smaller cities. Eventhough their source of income is in the form of service charges (bribe facilitators ), they undertake other complex tasks viz., paying road taxes for cabs, Engine endorsements, accident support and lot of documentation work. They are experienced and know the RTO process well i.e. they are functionally knowledgeable. How to include them in the new system?
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Old 19th August 2014, 21:27   #48
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Default Re: RTO to be scrapped?

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Few questions came up to my mind

Lot of RTO agents' livelihood will be at stake. I have seen some agents earn upto 50k per month even in smaller cities. Eventhough their source of income is in the form of service charges (bribe facilitators ), they undertake other complex tasks viz., paying road taxes for cabs, Engine endorsements, accident support and lot of documentation work. They are experienced and know the RTO process well i.e. they are functionally knowledgeable. How to include them in the new system?
We can send a representative to perform some jobs on our behalf. This exist even today. They can get a service charge for this. Recently, i bought a used TVS Wego and i used the services of Les Concierges in Bangalore to perform the task of ownership transfer. They charged a nominal fee as service charge.
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Old 19th August 2014, 21:35   #49
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Default Re: RTO to be scrapped?

Good move on part of Govt, all those suffering from RTO harassment would finally have a breeze of fresh air. Centralising the RTO's should come in tandem with amendments in motor laws.

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Originally Posted by COUGAR View Post
Very important step IMO!

Gadkari ji's nationalist business es would certainly benefit from this step! More money to be made at central level than at state level!

And with a centralised RTO, will be easier to get pan-India clearances for all those electric buses imported from China which are now rotting away in Purti Group's godowns in Nagpur!
AFAIK there is only one bus given by Scania for trial runs ( probably for 3 -6 months), services are commencing soon. Bus runs on ethanol. There was some controversy regarding it for a while, as it was parked in a Purti compound. I never heard of any Chinese Electric buses rotting in godowns of Purti as of yet, please share with us details if you got any ( believing that you have some credible source bout the info). The only electric vehicles parked in their compounds are E-rickshaws.
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Old 20th August 2014, 09:15   #50
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Default Re: RTO to be scrapped?

Now it's official:Acche din aane wale hain.......
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Old 20th August 2014, 12:07   #51
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Default Re: RTO to be scrapped?

This government has been announcing a lot of drastic changes. Not sure how good it would be. It could be disruptive and counter-productive. I remember reading some management lesson when in school/college that a new manager should not try to change everything at one shot. Change should be gradual.

I really do not understand how removing RTO and bringing in new laws will just solve all the problems. Ultimately it is the same people with the same mentality that will be running the new laws. Till that changes (people cannot change, but mentality can be changed, may be with harsh punishment).

As long as there are bad drivers who are willing bribe their way to licenses , no amount of new laws will help. Are we saying we do not have laws to prevent driving on wrong side of the road or jumping a signal? We do. But is it implemented strictly? No.

So unless the government implements laws strictly/uniformly and creates awareness/fear, no acche din for us.
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Old 20th August 2014, 12:34   #52
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Default Re: RTO to be scrapped?

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As long as there are bad drivers who are willing bribe their way to licenses , no amount of new laws will help. Are we saying we do not have laws to prevent driving on wrong side of the road or jumping a signal? We do. But is it implemented strictly? No.
We have still not seen what modifications are planned in the law. Being optimistic, I feel that the law would mandate the RTO to use certain tools (software, web based/internet based applications) which is deployed on a pan-India basis. This would bring in uniformity and perhaps more easy access to information. For example: knowing the status of the vehicle registration - have they dispatched the registration documents? At the moment people may have to use a tout or run around RTO office to get this information.

Now in case of licensing. How about a good online testing tool for the learner's license? The tool's score could be linked to the license issuing module. How ever much the individual pays as bribe, the software generating the license would not allow it to be generated if the score during learner's license test was low. Computerizing the actual test drive, would cost more money; but the results again can be tagged to the license generating system. When automation and workflows kick in chances for RTOs to manipulate the data would diminish.

Now on the enforcement part. One modification in the law could be to jack up the fines for traffic violations. Currently Sec. 177 MV Act recommends a fine of Rs.100 for many of the offences. Most of the MV Rule violations are fined using this Section of MV Act. Another would be to have a centralised database for recording all transactions (including traffic violations) regarding a motor vehicle. Just like how you can book a railway ticket from any where to any where, from a different location - this database can be accessed by RTOs of every state, and perhaps provide limited access to the state police as well.

Today many of the traffic violations cannot be prosecuted because of the complex process involved. I own a KL registered vehicle, and flout one way rule in Bangalore, KA. Unless a traffic SI notices this and charges me an on-the-spot fine, chances of me ever paying up for my fault is nil. A centralised way of holding records would change this.
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Old 20th August 2014, 17:18   #53
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Default Re: RTO to be scrapped?

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As long as there are bad drivers who are willing bribe their way to licenses , no amount of new laws will help. Are we saying we do not have laws to prevent driving on wrong side of the road or jumping a signal? We do. But is it implemented strictly? No.

So unless the government implements laws strictly/uniformly and creates awareness/fear, no acche din for us.
Traffic rule enforcement is job of traffic police and not RTO and no change is being proposed there.

The main job of RTO is to register vehicle and levy road tax and issuing license. As of now most of the work at RTO can be automated and improved.

Just one example.

For new vehicle registration and LTT collection current process is manufacturer sends vehicle to dealer and there after buyer ( or dealer on behalf of buyer) takes the vehicle to RTO .

RTO inspects and takes marking of chassis number and engine number with a graphite pencil and after a week or so buyer gets RC book /card.

Actually speaking vehicle type approval is already done by ARAI so for a new vehicle out of factory there is no need for someone to inspect at all. This inspection and taking chassis number / engine number marking physically from vehicle is totally superfluous.

Manufacturer can send the information to a central DB after dispatch of vehicle from factory to dealer , As soon as dealer sells the vehicle along with invoice generation he can do road tax deduction and transfer to transport department ( just like IT tax deduction at source is done) and enter buyers detail in the DB. Thereafter vehicle registration number can be generated by system with RC and buyer can get it as soon as he leaves showroom.

Advantages , No unregistered new vehicles on road , No opportunity for bribe.

Similarly just think in case of residence shift to another state or ownership transfer how easy it would be if whole business of taking NOCs from RTO and NOC being valid for only 6 months etc. is done away with.

Last edited by amitk26 : 20th August 2014 at 17:25.
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Old 20th August 2014, 17:45   #54
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Default Re: RTO to be scrapped?

Since the government is talking about having a motor vehicle act designed as per global standards like in USA, Canada & UK, they should also focus on road design as per these standards. Most of the traffic bottlenecks we see is because of faulty planning. There are banks, commercial complexes facing the road with absolutely no parking, what doest he government expect is going to happen? To top that, after a few months the traffic cops wake up and install no parking boards. If I have to go to the bank, do they expect me to walk from home? Is it my faulty if the planning agency is filled with morons? I pay life time tax for 15 years on my car and this is certainly not what I expect.

Also, they should take the cue from the west and introduce yearly payment of road taxes.

And, yes, more then focussing on how many kilometre's of roads are built per day, they should look at quality roads. What's the point of making a road fast then reworking them within 2 months due to potholes?

Last edited by amit : 20th August 2014 at 17:47.
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Old 20th August 2014, 17:55   #55
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Default Re: RTO to be scrapped?

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Originally Posted by RGK View Post

- Lot of RTO agents' livelihood will be at stake. I have seen some agents earn upto 50k per month even in smaller cities. Eventhough their source of income is in the form of service charges (bribe facilitators ), they undertake other complex tasks viz., paying road taxes for cabs, Engine endorsements, accident support and lot of documentation work. They are experienced and know the RTO process well i.e. they are functionally knowledgeable. How to include them in the new system?
Add 'Law enforcement' to the list as well. During the Life tax hunt by KA RTO, They have used these 'agents' extensively to flag down the vehicles. I have personally seen an agent stop the car and inspect the documents. He even collected a 'fine' from a biker, a part of the money went to his right pocket and the other to his left! All these while the inspector sits comfortably in his Bolero.
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Old 23rd August 2014, 22:19   #56
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Default Re: RTO to be scrapped?

Scrapping RTO? And making a full proof System similar to what the developed countries are having. Thought is good but depends on how it will be implemented. I donít see any system working in India where there is no Corruption.

Unless we as an Indian decide to follow the rules; no system can be a full proof System.

You take any system; the rules will be made in such a manner where a common man we will be forced to choose a short cut. Sometimes he will not have an address Proof / Required Qualification/ driving Skills etc etc and he will give opportunity to those who are running the new full proof System to make a hole and help such common man.

More Stringent rules mean; you have to shell out more money.

RTO system will not be very easy to scrap and To implement a new System, keeping in mind the load all these RTOs handle; will not be very easy. Itís a challenge for the Govt and calls for a sincere effort. Privatisation can be a good Option.
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Old 24th August 2014, 15:56   #57
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Default Re: RTO to be scrapped?

Whatever they bring in as an alternate, or even if they change how the existing system works it should be a whole lot better than what it is now. Consider this:

I did not drive a car at the RTO under the attention of any officer before getting my license. All I did was sit for 30 minutes and all 7-8 people in my "batch" got licenses.
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Old 24th August 2014, 22:47   #58
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Default Re: RTO to be scrapped?

A good example of how government services can be "reformed" are the passport offices.

Earlier there were usually one (or rarely two) Regional Passport Offices in state capitals. The bureaucracy and corruption there was legendary. Queues of touts and agents would form from 6 am with all kinds of inter-se arrangements to make life hell for people who decided to go the non-tout way. [In 2000, I was once turned away after waiting in queue for 6 hours because touts ahead of me allowed their buddies to join in the queue increasing the number of applicants beyond the daily "quota"] Others who had stood in the sun / rain for hours were turned away because of really silly technicalities (signing half across photos --- do you start on the photo or on the paper). The offices themselves were dirty and the waiting conditions were inhuman -- the whole process was a humiliation of sorts. Information about the service/process was also nil unless you stood in queue or heard from a relative / friend who had undergone the trauma. The staff (mostly clerical or sub-clerical) were extremely rude and discourteous; they would usually refuse to appreciate the peculiarities of a particular situation. It was so bad that a staff with half a civil tongue received heartfelt thanks for not being dismissive.

Then couple of years back they opened these passport seva kendras. A large part of the process is now outsourced to TCS employees; the use of internet to schedule appointments has removed the dread of queues. The office itself is clean, spacious and befits a service provider who is delivering you a >1k service. The staff are educated, understand problems, patient and helpful. There are provisions to spare senior citizens even the slight 30 minute waiting that others have to do. In case of doubts the staff do not hesitate to go inside and consult a senior RPO officer. The place is entirely tout free.

If they can do so much to improve the passport service (which I think most of us would agree was almost as bad as the RTO) then certainly the governments (union and states) can make restructure the way the RTO works. I hope they use the passport model for making changes.
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Old 24th August 2014, 23:19   #59
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Default Re: RTO to be scrapped?

Even if RTO will be scrapped in future and it will be replaced with equivalent office in some form with new set of rules. This is all fine but I think the same staffs who works in RTO will be shifted to this new concept office.

Result it will work with same mindset. Also, those staffs will bring along with them all of their favourite touts, with whom he used to do "business" in RTO.

Unless completed mindset changes, it is very difficult to cope with these "blood sucking" staffs with only one motto in life is "corruption".

But certainly, I would welcome this effort of some change in place of no change. The proper utilization of IT Infrastructure with robust software which cover all aspect in time bound manner should be the key of success.
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Old 25th August 2014, 05:34   #60
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Default Re: RTO to be scrapped?

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If they can do so much to improve the passport service (which I think most of us would agree was almost as bad as the RTO) then certainly the governments (union and states) can make restructure the way the RTO works. I hope they use the passport model for making changes.
These are not the same. Work related to Passports is mostly about the passport & can be done in the RPO. But with the RTO, the work can be anywhere where a vehicle can be. Huge difference. The work inside an office may be streamlined, but what about that which happens & must be done outside ?
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