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Old 4th May 2015, 21:52   #31
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Default Re: Soon, affordable Hybrid cars from Maruti!

This is the best news I have heard in a while. Given Maruti's heft in India if they attack the hybrid segment with some affordable cars it will set the ball rolling in our country for hybrids. And hybrids are a stepping stone in the right direction for tomorrow's all electrics. Godspeed to Maruti.
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Old 10th May 2015, 23:03   #32
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Default Re: Electric Creep/Crawl Mode

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Originally Posted by dark.knight View Post
I'm not familiar with electronics at all, although I fully understood what you meant to communicate. It might help but it comes with the following hiccups (speaking mechanically of course), pardon me if I've not completely thought through the scenario from all directions.

1) Not all traffic in India is the same, traffic management is becoming more efficient so when a signal is released nowadays the traffic flows atleast at 20-30+kmph before coming to a halt. Yes in certain crawling speeds-consistent traffic like before toll-booths or in certain Mumbai gridlocks it will be useful
Like everything else in life, this isn't an answer to all the problems. This is the basic structure for a solution to a major problem. This can be stretched to handle more situations.

Quote:
2) While the solar technology itself might come relatively cheap as you say, the company will surely charge much more owing to installation, sourcing costs and of course premium for the convenience. Big price to pay for the small convenience occasionally. Our public are very cost-conscious. Lithium-ion batteries maybe cheaper than before but its going to put quite a hole in the wallet given the capacity needed to power 2 wheels, not to mention replacement costs every 4-5 years. This is because the cost of say a 2000mAH phone battery today costs about Rs.2000+. A car backup battery would cost much more and also add to weight.
What you are saying is not entirely true. All companies are trying to throw in an additional feature no else has in every segment to be more successful or cars now and cars ten years ago would have been the same. Li-ion battery cost is now estimated at 200-300 USD per kWh and is coming down. Don't compare it to the minuscule mobile battery price. After market mobile battery business has a different model to itself and may not reflect the actual battery price exactly. If engineered properly, a 10 km crawl shouldn't be a problem for a 1 kWh battery. Li-ion batteries last much more than 4-5 years if managed properly (read thermal management). I want to sight an example here, but for the fear of derailing the discussion refraining from doing so. And yes, occasionally? Not, if you are a city commuter.
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3) If its separate Lithium-ion battery driven wouldn't the alternator be strained a little more than usual since its powering 2 batteries? Assuming the feature isn't used at all wouldn't fuel consumption increase?
We are talking a trade-off here. Yes, you would need energy to move a vehicle from Point A to Point B notwithstanding the type of power train used. A lot of energy is wasted by people over accelerating (and hence over braking) in the crawling traffic. What I'm saying is that worst of worst, the energy used by the whole electric power train will be less then the power wasted in such a manner.
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4) Some people take the foot off the brake pedal during traffic halts, me included. In this scenario a separate kill-switch has to be provided that would not activate the motor. That & a kill-signal has to programmed when activating hand-brake during the time people have to get out for a minute (shopping/opening gates etc) and do not wish to turn off the engine. That's a lot to think about when such technology is installed, could lead to minor errors.
True, but this is how all automatics have ever worked. So, it's like using an automatic. You get used to it. And, you shouldn't take the foot of the brake pedal unless you have engaged the hand brake.
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5) Alternatively the crawl mode can be activated when the car is in neutral and one simply taps the accelerator. The constraint here is purely cost related.. more CAN bus programming, more complexities and more wiring. Of course here too one has to be careful not to go anywhere near the accelerator pedal if the intention is not to move.
Yes. There'll be a lot of switches and sensors and some logical programming.
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6) Assuming one wants to immediately accelerate from the crawl mode then a kill-switch for the RWD has to programmed into the clutch as well and not just the brakes. Otherwise one has to literally stop before going into manual mode. Without that, conflicting signals will go to both the front & rear wheels and rear wheels might lock since their speed is low and they cant keep up with front ones.
All these will be taken care of the algorithms. No biggie.
Quote:
Edit : 7) In the Indian scenario where two-wheelers, rickshaws etc cut left and right ahead of us during signals making us brake abruptly, a constant 3kmph acceleration upto 15 kmph may put one slower than the rest of the vehicles. If the vehicle is faster than the other vehicles then its going to lead to minor incidents.
3 kmph/s is a random number I threw our there. That might need optimization. But still there aren't that many autos that can beat that!
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8) Radar detectors for proximity control for front & rear, ensure more programming, wires & of course much more cost. If we add all the safety overrides for this technology the cost might be equal to or more than the price of a CVT/dual clutch auto box.
I'm not talking about replacing autoboxes here. I'm talking about a solutions to two different problems in one, cost effective and a sustainable way. At least that's my intent. Sensors aren't that costly, programming isn't that big a deal. An electric motor shouldn't be that big of a problem either. It get's a little tough with the batteries and the power electronics. But that's the fun part.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
Could you shed some more light on the engineering changes required and its associated costs.

Regards
Sutripta
Costs, I don't have exact numbers. Engineering changes, I thought I gave a decent outline already. Making room for all the stuff that is discussed might turn out to be a bit of a challenge thought.
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Old 11th May 2015, 22:23   #33
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Default Re: Electric Creep/Crawl Mode

Quote:
Originally Posted by sreeharipv View Post
Engineering changes, I thought I gave a decent outline already.
Actually lets start with some more details on mechanical integration. Like
Number of motors?
Type of motor?
Geared?
Neutral necessary?
Method of drive to wheel?
unsprung weight?
Weight of battery?
Volume of battery?
Fire protection in case of accident?
etc.

And then estimate the engineering changes, compromises, and costs necessary.

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 30th May 2015, 15:11   #34
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Default Re: Soon, affordable Hybrid cars from Maruti!

Maruti will be looking at getting multiple hybrid cars.

Maruti Suzuki is gearing up to introduce the next-generation products with a hybrid powertrain. Maruti Suzuki’s next-gen Swift, Wagon R and other several products shall be getting hybrid powertrains.

The next-generation Wagon R, which is due to be launched next year will be having a hybrid version too.

In the initial stages of the launch only the five-door, five-seater Wagon R will be introduced. Later on the seven-seater version shall follow.

The Swift and the Wagon R both will have the same 660cc engine with a hybrid powertrain.

Quote:
The 660cc engine will be the same engine that will also power the new-generation Alto that is due to be launched in 2017. Maruti Suzuki will be utilising this engine across its portfolio and shall have turbo and non-turbo (naturally aspirated) engine options depending the vehicle’s size and price tag. This engine is commonly used by the company in Japan and is due to come to India sometime next year.
http://motoroctane.com/news/13890-ma...rid-cars-scoop
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Old 30th May 2015, 17:22   #35
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Talking Re: Soon, affordable Hybrid cars from Maruti!

A search on zauba.com reveals that a Suzuki Wagon R FZ Hybrid CVT has been imported into the country for R&D Purposes.

Soon, affordable Hybrid cars from Maruti!-wagon-r-zauba.jpg
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Old 6th June 2015, 11:51   #36
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Default Re: Soon, affordable Hybrid cars from Maruti!

The Swift Hybrid Range Extender's real-world testing starts!

The Swift Hybrid Range Extender has a 658cc, 3-cylinder petrol engine paired to a 73Bhp electric motor - a combination which delivers the best of both worlds, excellent pep & superb efficiency. As per Maruti-Suzuki's internal tests, the Swift Range Extender delivers a combined fuel efficiency of 48.2 kmpl!

Only downside - the car weighs almost 1600 kilos!

Soon, affordable Hybrid cars from Maruti!-swifthybrid6.jpg

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Quote:
Maruti seems to have started real world test runs for the Swift Range Extender concept that was shown at the International Green Mobility Expo earlier this year. We caught a convoy of three such cars being driven back to the factory today - as seen in this image, red test plates are clearly visible on the last car which further hints at Maruti evaluating the car under real world Indian driving conditions.
SOURCE

Last edited by RavenAvi : 6th June 2015 at 11:54.
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Old 6th June 2015, 13:23   #37
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Default Re: Soon, affordable Hybrid cars from Maruti!

Great to see them set the ball rolling! With that kind of a mileage and a peppy acceleration, would the kerb weight matter to anyone?

Just one thing though. I seriously hope Maruti tests the build metal quite well as, the weight that we are looking at has more or less doubled. If, the weight increase is due to a beefed up build, thats a good sign.

Needless to say, components falling apart for any vehicle in it's early years isn't a preferred scenario and one that isnt taken too kindly of, either

Cheerio,
-Shivang Gandotra
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Old 6th June 2015, 13:53   #38
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Default Re: Soon, affordable Hybrid cars from Maruti!

It will be the battery which causes the extra weight. I don't think there will be any change to the sheet metal.
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Old 6th June 2015, 20:27   #39
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Default Re: Soon, affordable Hybrid cars from Maruti!

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Originally Posted by romeomidhun View Post
It will be the battery which causes the extra weight. I don't think there will be any change to the sheet metal.
My guess is there must be some strengthening as well of the shell to bear the additional 400-500 kgs.

Any idea how the electric motor will be charged?

Weight aside, this is a welcome direction in which MUL is headed.
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Old 18th June 2015, 18:38   #40
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Default Re: Soon, affordable Hybrid cars from Maruti!

A hybrid Swift or Dzire from Maruti on its way - end 2015. Mileage at 40+ kmpl

Quote:
Maruti could be launching a hybrid version of either the Swift or DZire which will come in later this year giving buyers in the country their first experience where an entry level plug-in hybrid car is concerned.
Hybrid Maruti Swift receives a 658cc petrol engine and an electric motor along with a 5kWh lithium-ion battery pack. These in conjunction are capable of generating 73PS power and delivering a mileage of 48.2 kmpl. The battery is fully chargeable via a 200V electric socket in 90 minutes. When running on full electric charge, it has a range of 25.5 kms.

http://www.rushlane.com/hybrid-marut...-12154685.html

Last edited by volkman10 : 18th June 2015 at 18:44.
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Old 19th June 2015, 09:44   #41
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Default Re: Soon, affordable Hybrid cars from Maruti!

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Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
A hybrid Swift or Dzire from Maruti on its way - end 2015. Mileage at 40+ kmpl
It is high time the market leader brought out some innovative technologies to the automobile segment, more so since India accept anything that Maruti may throw at us, AMT being a case in point.
India has given so much to Maruti Suzuki and the company should plough back some of its profits into developing and launching technologically superior products in the Indian market.
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Old 10th August 2015, 13:53   #42
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Default Re: Soon, affordable Hybrid cars from Maruti!

Maruti to bring mild hybrid tech, Boosterjet engine to India

Suzuki’s SHVS mild hybrid system likely to be seen on Maruti models soon; new Boosterjet engine to head to India.

Quote:
Maruti will soon launch some of its models with an innovative mild hybrid tech. The carmaker is said to be working with parent company, Suzuki to develop hybrid and electrical vehicle technology, with an aim to reduce fuel consumption and emissions.
Quote:
Quote:
Suzuki’s SHVS mild-hybrid system employs an integrated starter generator (ISG) which provides assistance to the engine, using a motor to generate power when the vehicle accelerates. This system also comes with brake energy recuperation which helps in recovering energy when the vehicle decelerates. This system is likely to be first seen in diesel models
Maruti will also add the start-stop system to enhance fuel economy.
http://www.autocarindia.com/auto-new...ia-396804.aspx

Last edited by volkman10 : 10th August 2015 at 13:54.
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Old 12th August 2015, 22:12   #43
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Default Re: Electric Creep/Crawl Mode

Quote:
Originally Posted by sreeharipv View Post
I've been tinkering with this idea for quite a long time now.

I wonder why the auto industry hasn't come up with something like a Creep mode using an electric motor coupled to the rear hub (for front wheel drive cars)
I'm thinking of doing a project. Just thought it's a good idea to know what... BHPians think about it.
Thankyou Sutripta for pointing this out.

Basically why just creep function ? I had this small plan in my head after seeing Top Gear Limo episode. One of them just chopped up 2 FWD cars are joined them back to back in the middle. So you can drive from any side and there was engine in both sides of the car.

So, I started researching a bit. Suppose you take a Maruti 800 car - lightest as well as hugely popular car with simple mechanics. Put some car batteries in the boot. Attach differential to rear wheels and connect a motor to it, or even consider the use of hub motors. The car will run in following modes

Quote:
Such a setup can run in following ways:
1. Only electric - enough to get out of buildings/parking quietly
2. Hybrid - both engine + motors with regenerative braking
3. Petrol-Electric - put in neutral (disengage clutch) and use the motor (kind of a range extended electric vehicle)
As the rear and front powertrains will be not connected together, the will need a good controller, especially for the regenerative braking mode. There will be no rear brakes, upon pressing the brake pedals, front brakes will work as stock, but the rear wheels will generate power through regenerative braking.

Once this can be done on a trial basis, we can approach some electric car companies like Reva (now part of Mahindra) to develop it further. A bigger electric motor and we'll have enthusiasts lining up for the kit. It'll be hugely successful at Speed Runs etc.

The future is definitely Electric motors. Some one should make a cheap mass market Range extended electric vehicle like the Hammerhead-eagle-i-thrust of the Top Gear. Basically the govt should do something. Imagine if they didn't charge any import duty/taxes on electric cars! I'm sure there will be many Bhpians queuing up to buy the Tesla Model S.
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Old 12th August 2015, 22:20   #44
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Default Re: Soon, affordable Hybrid cars from Maruti!

With the blistering heat that is prevalent in most parts of our country, harnessing the power of the sun will turn out to be best for both the wallet and more importantly the environment. Research should be funded in India (and other hot countries) for solar powered alternative energy sources since the western countries are mostly cold and hence do not invest in solar power. Electric power may be arguably ok for a short period but eventually we should look at harnessing solar power since there is no energy source as abundant as the sun.

Last edited by super.cars : 12th August 2015 at 22:29.
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Old 21st August 2015, 09:14   #45
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Default Re: Soon, affordable Hybrid cars from Maruti!

Maruti Suzuki is to launch the Ciaz Hybrid (SHVS) shortly. The game for Maruti does not stop there.
Ciaz - SHVS will be soon the most fuel efficient car at 28km/l.

Maruti is also working out plans to bring the same SHVS to Swift and Dzire, Ertiga and will cross the fuel mileage of 30km/l

http://auto.economictimes.indiatimes...t-car/48569210
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