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Old 9th October 2014, 19:58   #16
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Too late. By the time they launch their new diesel engines here there won't be enough market left for diesels anymore. In the small car segments, since diesel and petrol fuel prices are closing up, buying diesel cars wouldn't make sense anymore.
Don't support that argument at all. Even with similar prices, diesels offers better mileage while extracting performance from the engine. Petrols are far more dependant on throttle inputs compared to diesels. Plus the torque is a plus on the highways.

For heavy highway usage, I would still opt for a powerful turbo diesel compared to an equivalent turbo petrol, both fuels priced similarly.

Eg: I would pick a GT TDi over the TSi.
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Old 9th October 2014, 20:31   #17
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Default Re: Maruti Suzuki developing 1.5 & 1.6 Liter Diesel engines

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Originally Posted by ahuja365 View Post
Maruti also needs to develop six speed manual and six speed or higher automatic transmission.May be a dual clutch automatic gearbox is also the need of the hour when efficiency and low emmissions are the next standard to survivie in the automobile world.They also need to give indians an affordable sportscar which could make people more attractive towards the brand.
Now why would Maruti want to do that? They're the leading automaker in India with unparalleled service and dealership network. They didn't make their name by selling technically advanced or fast cars. They're what ford and volkswagen were to US of A and Germany before WW2; the people's car. They don't need really fast engines or dsg gearboxes which will have so much of technology involved that rate of failure will be proportionately high. There's no other manufacturer who knows Indian market and mindset better than maruti and they've been exploiting it very well. Coming to autoboxes they've already successfully introduced AMT in india and they're probably going to stick to that.

I also agree with crazydriver. It's never the end for diesel engines if diesel prices go up. If your monthly running is on the higher side you'll inevitably end up choosing a diesel. And Suvs would almost always prefer a diesel engine thanks to the torque. Even for a small car diesel engines are easier to crawl in the city traffic thanks to torque if turbo lag is sorted out.

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Old 9th October 2014, 22:30   #18
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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Don't support that argument at all. Even with similar prices, diesels offers better mileage while extracting performance from the engine. Petrols are far more dependant on throttle inputs compared to diesels. Plus the torque is a plus on the highways.

For heavy highway usage, I would still opt for a powerful turbo diesel compared to an equivalent turbo petrol, both fuels priced similarly.

Eg: I would pick a GT TDi over the TSi.
Probably, but how many average Joes (am going with the popular belief that maruti's biggest customers are average joes) would buy a diesel swift over a petrol one if prices of fuel are the same? In the 5-10L segment a 1.25L difference is too high to overlook.
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Old 10th October 2014, 01:12   #19
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Default Maruti Suzuki developing 1.5 & 1.6 Liter Diesel engines

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Originally Posted by blacksport View Post
Probably, but how many average Joes (am going with the popular belief that maruti's biggest customers are average joes) would buy a diesel swift over a petrol one if prices of fuel are the same? In the 5-10L segment a 1.25L difference is too high to overlook.

Price difference of 1.25L should be because of the royalty paid by Suzuki towards FIAT. I believe with heavier localisation and own designs- the difference could be under a lakh.

See the Grand i10 for example.

Another question- Aren't the average joes more comfortable spending less money each time at the bunk? I believe it's not the average joe that does all these calculations and feel happier spending less upfront.
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Old 10th October 2014, 01:42   #20
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Too late. By the time they launch their new diesel engines here there won't be enough market left for diesels anymore. In the small car segments, since diesel and petrol fuel prices are closing up, buying diesel cars wouldn't make sense anymore.
I would like to disagree here.

Customers who have a high running (read usage) of the car would still buy a diesel even if the fuel prices are same. Diesel do give good range for every full tank so the average joe would require lesser visits to the gas station. The high torque output makes driving easier, not that petrol are difficult but still.

Launching a diesel engine is never late, there will always be some set of customers who demand such engines.

Now if Suzuki does launch the engine, the royalty cost that is paid for every DDiS is saved so manufacturing costs come down which does say that the cats could get slightly cheaper.

All we have to do now is, wait and watch as to how Suzuki responds and when it launched the engine. Hope the engine is near identical to 1.3L DDiS in drive ability, torque, FE etc.

Anurag.
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Old 10th October 2014, 10:05   #21
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Default Re: Maruti Suzuki developing 1.5 & 1.6 Liter Diesel engines

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Originally Posted by Autodoc View Post
I also agree with crazydriver. It's never the end for diesel engines if diesel prices go up. If your monthly running is on the higher side you'll inevitably end up choosing a diesel. And Suvs would almost always prefer a diesel engine thanks to the torque. Even for a small car diesel engines are easier to crawl in the city traffic thanks to torque if turbo lag is sorted out.
True, it is not going to be the end of diesel engines. But the numbers wouldn't justify the investment they are making in developing these engines.
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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Price difference of 1.25L should be because of the royalty paid by Suzuki towards FIAT. I believe with heavier localisation and own designs- the difference could be under a lakh.

See the Grand i10 for example.

Another question- Aren't the average joes more comfortable spending less money each time at the bunk? I believe it's not the average joe that does all these calculations and feel happier spending less upfront.
In the case of Grand i10, it is the 1.2L petrol vs the 1.1 Diesel. In the case of say Swift, it is the 1.2P vs 1.3D engine. Check the i20, there is a 1.2L difference. Maruti's 1.5D is going to be a bigger engine than the 1.3 from Fiat, so price will probably go up. They wouldn't have to pay royalties, but they would have to still price it higher in order to retrieve their R&D costs.
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Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
Customers who have a high running (read usage) of the car would still buy a diesel even if the fuel prices are same. Diesel do give good range for every full tank so the average joe would require lesser visits to the gas station. The high torque output makes driving easier, not that petrol are difficult but still.

Launching a diesel engine is never late, there will always be some set of customers who demand such engines.
An average Joe is not a high mileage muncher, but there would be some such joes nonetheless. Sure, there would be some market left, but probably, not enough to justify the investment.

Probably they decided to make this investment long ago, much before the market started changing in favour of petrols. That's why I say that they are a bit late here.
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Old 10th October 2014, 15:06   #22
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Default Re: Maruti Suzuki developing 1.5 & 1.6 Liter Diesel engines

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Originally Posted by Autodoc View Post
Now why would Maruti want to do that? They're the leading automaker in India with unparalleled service and dealership network. They didn't make their name by selling technically advanced or fast cars. They're what ford and volkswagen were to US of A and Germany before WW2; the people's car. They don't need really fast engines or dsg gearboxes which will have so much of technology involved that rate of failure will be proportionately high. There's no other manufacturer who knows Indian market and mindset better than maruti and they've been exploiting it very well. Coming to autoboxes they've already successfully introduced AMT in india and they're probably going to stick to that.

I also agree with crazydriver. It's never the end for diesel engines if diesel prices go up. If your monthly running is on the higher side you'll inevitably end up choosing a diesel. And Suvs would almost always prefer a diesel engine thanks to the torque. Even for a small car diesel engines are easier to crawl in the city traffic thanks to torque if turbo lag is sorted out.

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Sunny
They would have to do it as manual gearbox will not be able to give that much efficiency as new gen automatic and common rail and direct injection were also a technolgy marvel first but slowly it has become a part of common man cars with the advent of time.What is the use of technolgy if it does not reaches the common man.Technology in every field does becomes affordable with the advent of time and high end manufacturers moving to higher technology.
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Old 27th May 2015, 11:18   #23
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Default Re: Maruti Suzuki developing 1.5 & 1.6 Liter Diesel engines

Suzuki’s in-house 1.5-litre diesel engine postponed.
Steep learning curve has pushed back Suzuki’s first four-cylinder diesel to around 2018.
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The launch of Suzuki’s in-house developed 1.5-litre four-cylinder diesel engine has been postponed to sometime in 2018, instead of 2016. Suzuki had been facing difficulties to achieve the desired levels of refinement and performance achieved in the development stage. The delay could be attributed to these challenges
http://www.autocarindia.com/auto-new...ed-394898.aspx
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Old 6th September 2017, 17:54   #24
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Default Re: Maruti Suzuki developing 1.5 & 1.6 Liter Diesel engines

So this thread has dried out & didn't find any other threads about the 1.5L Suzuki Diesel. So unearthing this one from the depths.

Its a bit of a surprise that there aren't too many news seen on the 1.5L diesel from outside of India either. If the car is slated for a release next year, generally one would start seeing that engine in action elsewhere on some other models in other countries. Looks like Suzuki focuses most on India when it comes to diesels anyway. Elsewhere they are doing with petrol only so far as such.

Will be interesting next year with almost all leading makers (foreign and in-house) fielding an engine in 1.5L Diesel category. Suzuki better get their performance vs efficiency balance correct right at the launch.

Also - will this engine be available in EU also? Will it then be already designed such that it is future ready when India moves to cleaner & greener diesel that is long overdue?

On a different line, I wonder why nobody other than Fiat really came up with an engine as pioneering as the 1248cc 1.3 Multijet SDE even after so long? Are we seeing a peak in what is possible with small diesel engines?

Absolutely nobody else made such a small engine with so much power & torque delivery yet with exceptionally good FE. Others have all gone the traditional 1.4/1.5 way.

I can understand that with a 1.4 / 1.5 - you inherently have a lower turbo lag. But the MJD still managed it very well in a 1.3. Why did companies like Tata & Suzuki keep on paying licensing fees instead of simply making a smaller engine with similar performance figures? What is it that Fiat did, that others could not?
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Old 6th September 2017, 18:27   #25
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Default Re: Maruti Suzuki developing 1.5 & 1.6 Liter Diesel engines

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Originally Posted by Reinhard View Post
On a different line, I wonder why nobody other than Fiat really came up with an engine as pioneering as the 1248cc 1.3 Multijet SDE even after so long? Are we seeing a peak in what is possible with small diesel engines?
More than performance, it is the uncertainty around emission norms and the global revival of petrol motors, along with hybrids and electrics that has stopped the diesel engine developments.

Suzuki would have proceeded with it still, because India is still the single biggest market for them, and a competitive diesel engine is absolutely essential for success here, even if petrol motors are gaining slowly through the sales charts.
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Old 6th September 2017, 18:31   #26
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Default Re: Maruti Suzuki developing 1.5 & 1.6 Liter Diesel engines

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So this thread has dried out & didn't find any other threads about the 1.5L Suzuki Diesel. So unearthing this one from the depths.
Maruti is already testing in house 1.5 diesel engine in Ciaz. I guess you missed out this thread

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...5l-diesel.html (Rumour: Maruti successfully tests Ciaz 1.5L diesel)
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