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Old 20th October 2014, 18:49   #16
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Default Re: Safety features in lower variants of B2, C1 & C2 segment cars

My 2c. Agreed, as a nation we are too much concerned with saving, sometimes at the cost of safety. Then again there are many of our fellow countrymen who barely make enough to buy a basic car to ferry their family around and the high prices of ABS/ Airbags definitely discourages them from opting for this.

I believe legislation to add these safety features as mandatory will go a long way in solving the problem. Because safety then will no longer be a differentiator in terms of premiumness, Our manufacturers will find ways to optimize cost of these safety features thus making it not so costly as the difference between Xi and Xi (O) versions.
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Old 20th October 2014, 18:56   #17
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Default Re: Safety features in lower variants of B2, C1 & C2 segment cars

Hyundai might call their new i10 'Grand' and i20 'Elite', but I'm far from impressed.

The i10 had the option of a driver airbag on the Sportz. NA on the Grand.
The i10 Sportz came with Rear Wash/Wipe as standard, not even an option on the Grand
And Dual Airbags as standard on the Asta, are now an option - ridiculous, considering it gets rear A/c vents and Push to start as standard!
6 airbags were an option only on the 1.2 iGen i20. Hyundai has completely done away with that option now, forget providing em as an option on the 1.4s. Disc brakes aren't an option anymore either.

Fiat has been kind enough to do away with Fog lamps and the rear wiper on the 'Evo'.

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The corporate edition had Dr Airbag and ABS standard.
Correction - it had Dual Airbags and ABS.
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Old 21st October 2014, 10:31   #18
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Default Re: Safety features in lower variants of B2, C1 & C2 segment cars

Sorry, but I really do not understand the logic of blaming the manufacturers here, as the first party. For me, the first culprit is the consumer himself, then the government and then the car makers.
Take the examples of our leading car makers like Maruti, Hyundai etc. The sale chart toppers do not have basic safety features but they still sell in huge volume and nobody seem to care. Now, VW introduced Airbags in all the variant and did that set the Polo sales charts on fire? No! Indian car market is far from mature when we consider the knowledge about safety. People here are more concerned about the repair cost of airbags in an accident than their lives. They don't even use the seatbelts which are available across the range, then what to tell about ABS and airbags? If people start rejecting cars due to the lack of safety features, no manufacturer will keep quiet. Car making, like any other, is a business done for profit. And in this age of engineering to need and not more, why should they think differently? Cater to the market demand is what they do. I give all the safety features and if the market is still running behind cars which does not have any of those, why should I, as a manufacturer, deviate and lose my money?
Same is the case with the government. Make safety mandatory and you will see Nanos, Eons and Altos coming out with ABS & Airbags at almost the same price.
In the lower end of the market, its a volume game and until people or the government act, nothing is going to change. Saw some comments about Hyundai removing the 6 airbags and rear disc etc. If people ditched the Swift and only bought the i20 with 6 airbags and rear discs, do you think that Hyundai would have stopped producing it?

Last edited by A350XWB : 21st October 2014 at 10:33.
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Old 21st October 2014, 11:29   #19
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Default Re: Safety features in lower variants of B2, C1 & C2 segment cars

Great Thread and some pretty good responses to the Thread!

My question is to all the BHPians over here who have bought new cars in the last year or two.

Do you have ABS and Dual Airbags (Driver & Passenger) in the car that you bought in the last year or two?

Once again stressing the point about mentality (A lot of people have stressed it out already). But I am putting an additional argument to this. A majority of the people are unaware of the importance of ABS & Airbags in cars today. But what about BHPians. We are all aware of the requirements of ABS and Airbags in today's world. We all have access to innumerable incidents / accidents where ABS / Airbags have saved or would have saved an individual.

But some of us still ignore the fact and buy cars which have none of them or either of the two (which is still better than having none but not the best).

Note: I completely oppose having only Driver Side Airbag in the car. Would you be driving alone always? Wouldn't you like to have a loved one sitting besides you in your car? What about their safety?

Just go through the "I booked my Car" Thread and you will have the answer. When finalizing a car, how many people have put a though on paper of what features am I looking for in a car?

There are a lot of people who buy a car just because another friend or relative has the same car and is happy with the performance of the car. These people did not give a thought whether their purpose of having a car is the same as the others.

Safety is something which people ignore conveniently. If they didn't, our roads would have been much safer and we would not have been discussing on the necessity of ABS and Air-bags. It is upto a higher authority to put a compulsion on having ABS and Air-bags even if it means the car prices going up.

Last edited by tejas08 : 21st October 2014 at 11:33. Reason: Added some more text.
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Old 21st October 2014, 11:41   #20
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Default Re: Safety features in lower variants of B2, C1 & C2 segment cars

This thread is something that is something that our car makers and govt must read. IMO most of the regular car buyers are not very aware of the advantages of these features, hence govt must publicize the benefits of these and after sometime make it mandatory. Thus people may be less grudging when paying for it.

Apart from tangible benefit of saving lives, lot of intangible benefits like lesser loss of working days due to accidents and making roads safer in general for other users.
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Old 21st October 2014, 11:41   #21
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Default Re: Safety features in lower variants of B2, C1 & C2 segment cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by A350XWB View Post
Sorry, but I really do not understand the logic of blaming the manufacturers here, as the first party. For me, the first culprit is the consumer himself, then the government and then the car makers.
Don't agree with you. The average Joe does not know about safety features and how they can save his life. Dealer sales people of ill-trained to talk about these features. e.g. When I purchased the Swift VDI in 2008, it came with ABS as optional. I remember the sales person insisting that I do not need ABS as I was going to be driving in the city most of the time!

Manufacturers need to take responsibility and make safety features standard across all variants. If not standard, at least offer them as options across all variants. I know a lot of folks who did not buy the top trim level as it was priced a full 1L over the mid variant. They did not want the fancy alloys, the auto AC, the touch screen ICE. They would have paid 30-50k premium on the variant of their choice for ABS and Airbags but did not have a choice!

I will agree that the blame also lies on the regulators. We need some good laws that will take care of road safety, car safety, car recalls and lemon laws. I hope Prime minister Modi brings in these reforms and makes Manufacturers accountable.
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Old 21st October 2014, 12:58   #22
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Default Re: Safety features in lower variants of B2, C1 & C2 segment cars

I never told that we should not blame the manufacturers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by torque!! View Post
The average Joe does not know about safety features and how they can save his life.
Exactly! And this average Joe constitute the majority of buyers India. The highest variants of the cars which usually offers the safety features as standard, still make up a very small part of the pie. And I don't believe that it's only due to the lack of money. In today's market, you have a healthy number of choices and most of the time, you will be able to get a car which offers safety features for your budget. Lowest end of the spectrum still have no choice. So, if people are willing to sacrifice on safety, just to get a brand or a particular model, why on earth should the manufacturer care? Its a business after all.
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Originally Posted by torque!! View Post
Manufacturers need to take responsibility and make safety features standard across all variants. If not standard, at least offer them as options across all variants.
Now, coming to the responsibility part. Suppose a particular manufacturer takes the responsibility and try to educate people on safety aspects and provide all the safety features on all variants. They cannot price their variants on par with another manufacturer who skimps on these. Hypothetically, let us assume that dual airbags and ABS costs only Rs. 10,000 more than a similar model from another manufacturer. 5% of the buyers who are safety conscious will buy the one with the safety features and still ,the rest 95% will go and buy the other one to save Rs. 10,000. For them, the 10K is worth more than their life. So, should the manufacturer who catered to the 5% shut shop and go home as he cannot compete with a smarter manufacturer who knows the market better? I don't think business works like that. And providing option is costlier for the manufacturer. So, they simply follow the market dynamics.
For example, on a monthly basis, if half the people buying a Swift VDi/VXi demand that they need ABS and Airbags and decide that without these, they will not take the car or go for other options, just see how a new VDi/VXi variant emerges with these features as standard. No need of any government regulations. Manufacturers do not usually over engineer, if they are not compelled by the market.

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Originally Posted by torque!! View Post
I know a lot of folks who did not buy the top trim level as it was priced a full 1L over the mid variant. They did not want the fancy alloys, the auto AC, the touch screen ICE. They would have paid 30-50k premium on the variant of their choice for ABS and Airbags but did not have a choice!
And what did they buy in the end? The lower variant of the same car without the safety features? If yes, then why should the manufacturer care? I mean, they know that with or without these features, people are ready to buy the car. In 100 people buying a particular car in a month, if 70 does not care about safety features, 15 are OK to take the mid variant because they want only that particular car (brand/model/etc.etc.), 5 will go for the top variant because they are ready to spent and only 5 look away for other options due to unavailability of safety features on the mid variant, the manufacturer is not going to care. For him, with his strategy, he can cover the demands of 95% of the market. Why should he care for the other 5%?
Until and unless the customer demands, nothing is going to change. Otherwise, the government should step in. For manufacturers, it is business and not charity
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Old 21st October 2014, 13:39   #23
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Default Re: Safety features in lower variants of B2, C1 & C2 segment cars

Thanks for highlighting the misdeeds of the manufacturers, although I think most bhp'ians are aware of the basic safety problems in Indian cars. I hold the lack of safety regulations/norms by the government as the biggest culprit here. The car makers can't be blamed solely, as they are only a business and will try to make the maximum profit they can, by hook or by crook. Conscience and responsibility? Who cares, in todays world. Otherwise why would we have so many laws for countless things.

Even in developed countries car makers follow the safety standards, only because of stringent laws and government regulation, or the other choice is to pack up.

As long as in India, government does not frame these basic laws (like seat belts rule many moons ago), car makers will keep having a field day, by offering basic safety features (which don't cost a bomb too) only in their most expensive variants. Its like, ok you care about safety, we will give it to you, but only if you also buy our fancy touchscreen infotainment system, jazzy alloys, push start button etc.

Of course having basic safety is one thing, and how people use them is another. Again, it boil downs to a combination of safety awareness coupled with law implementation. For example I see almost everybody wearing their seat belts in cities. Of course, most wear them to avoid a challan, but still its actually helping them even if they may not be aware of it.
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Old 21st October 2014, 14:55   #24
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Default Re: Safety features in lower variants of B2, C1 & C2 segment cars

Safety is still the last (or in some cases, inexistent) tick box that the Indian buyer has in mind. That is why you can see the low-end variants of certain entry-level cars coming without a left ORVM (the old Alto LXI, for instance) or cars without a rear wiper (even Grand i10 Sportz that hosts so many nice-to-have features doesn't have one) and I am not even talking about ABS or Airbags.
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Old 22nd October 2014, 11:30   #25
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Default Re: Safety features in lower variants of B2, C1 & C2 segment cars

Hi,

Very nice and thought provoking topic indeed. Here is my 2 cents.

I have a very humble Qs to ask to all the manufacturer.
"Why ABS and Airbags are not provided as only upgrade in low/mid variant and usually tied with many other accessories in top variant"?

In my opinion, car makers are trying to push sales of other accessories along with ABS and Airbags. I would say I end-up buying many unwanted features if I'm adamant on having these safety feature must on my list.

Lets take an example, I was just browsing through the on-road cost of duster and guess what, their 85ps adventure edition doesn't offer airbags , Same story is mostly true for all other car makers if you analyze properly. They know people who have airbags must in their feature list will pay irrespective of price and they push other feature which you may not need. This, I consider is a rip-off from consumer point of view.

Now lets take a hypothetical situation that everyone start buying cars only with these safety feature, does it mean manufacturer start offering these feature in mid or lower variant of cars? In my opinion NOPE, they'll keep collecting mullah by selling top variant with accessories not everyone wants.

So whats require to come out from this vicious circle? Since you and I as consumer, buying cars only with safety feature wont force manufacturer to provide safety feature in lower or mid variant, In my opinion, it should be a direction from Govt. which can help here. I believe if Govt can intervene and make these feature as must across variant/segments, automatically even prices of these feature will come down due to mass production.

Regards
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Old 22nd October 2014, 18:35   #26
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Default Re: Safety features in lower variants of B2, C1 & C2 segment cars

The Government does legislate in matters where a citizen can potentially harm oneself/others as in
a) Wearing of seatbelts during driving
b) Not driving under influence
c) banning/controlling sale of narcotics/cigarettes
[It is a different debate if it ought to bother with one's personal choice].

Likewise, the government ought to legislate safety features to me made available in a car and make those features that affect safety of other (outside the vehicle in question) mandatory.
The first thing that comes to mind would be the ABS. And the cost of which will come down drastically with volumes.
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Old 25th October 2014, 13:24   #27
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Default Re: Safety features in lower variants of B2, C1 & C2 segment cars

Going by the latest news on Swift face lift, ABS would be making a return into the VXi/VDi trim of Swift in a month or so when the face lift is launched.

Though the rumors mention it as standard fitment, it remains to be seen if it would be standard or optional. Either way, V trim buyers would at least a choice to get ABS.
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Old 26th October 2014, 09:39   #28
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Default Re: Safety features in lower variants of B2, C1 & C2 segment cars

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Originally Posted by zenren View Post
Though the rumors mention it as standard fitment, it remains to be seen if it would be standard or optional. Either way, V trim buyers would at least a choice to get ABS.
Facelifted Swift VDi is getting ABS as standard for sure. I am not sure about VXi. Another addition is proper adjustable headrests on the rear seats across variants. Those are much needed to prevent whiplash.
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Old 26th October 2014, 10:20   #29
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Default Re: Safety features in lower variants of B2, C1 & C2 segment cars

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Originally Posted by Car-go-man View Post
Safety is still the last (or in some cases, inexistent) tick box that the Indian buyer has in mind. That is why you can see the low-end variants of certain entry-level cars coming without a left ORVM (the old Alto LXI, for instance) or cars without a rear wiper (even Grand i10 Sportz that hosts so many nice-to-have features doesn't have one) and I am not even talking about ABS or Airbags.
Maruti has always been the uncrowned King of the El Cheapo mentality.
When the Swift was launched in 2005, the early Swifts, right up to 2007 (if I remember right), did not offer a left ORVM as standard in their Lxi Variant. I stopped looking around then, so I am not sure what their standards are now. But so many years down the line, I sincerely hope they have improved.
In India, it is not about public awareness alone. It actually requires strong Governmental legislation to make these miserable car manufacturers offer essential safety features across all variants of their vehicles. Indians fear only the "Danda".
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Old 26th October 2014, 10:32   #30
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Default Re: Safety features in lower variants of B2, C1 & C2 segment cars

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Facelifted Swift VDi is getting ABS as standard for sure.
Was there any leaked brochure with feature spec?

If you are going by the ABS sticker under the VDi badge in the spy shots, how do we know it is not an optional variant? Even my 2008 Swift VDi has the same sticker
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