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Old 5th November 2014, 15:44   #136
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

@CrAzY dRiVeR: Thanks for the tremendous effort to compile all the material. What an effort!

I have been owning it from 13th August and it has run 2600+ Kms till date. But for the mild issues I have in Gear shift from Neutral to Reverse, I have no other issues worth mentioning.
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Old 5th November 2014, 15:49   #137
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

Good analysis. I think latest gen is truly to cater mass market appeal. Lots of goodies.
I think it is reasonable to think Honda estimated life of parts without much road testing.
Everything else can be compromised, but the engine was Honda's strong point. But now since that too lacks quality, it is time to dis-align Honda name from good engines. I guess this should increase value of OHC in market for people who still want a city (minus goodies).
Given the amount of issues, Ciaz looks like a better proposition.
Following are issues with most mass product vehicles. Not specific to Honda
Germans are exception
1. Sofa like seats
2. Soft suspension
3. Orange peel paint
4. Plasticy interior
It is to be assumed that Honda has tried hard to give mileage + goodies + quality + price for mass market and fallen behind heavily on quality part to keep equation stable.
Since the quality issues point to the lowest in Honda years, i think it can only improve from here on.
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Old 5th November 2014, 16:09   #138
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

I was pretty sure that when i had to change my Jan 2010 City , it would be another City only. I dont want to buy more expensive cars . Have used the Indica earlier and have 2 other Hyundais right now . But nothing came close to the quality and trouble free nature of my 2010 City. The thing is so damn good and Uneventful.

I think i will now keep mine for a long long time.

Looks like things have changed at Honda now and i hope they can correct it and fast.
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Old 5th November 2014, 22:14   #139
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

My father owns a 2013 Honda City (top variant with nav system) and may be its just me but the previous-gen City felt much more plush and luxurious than the current-gen City. Does anybody else also feel the same?
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Old 5th November 2014, 22:59   #140
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

Quote:
Originally Posted by avisidhu View Post
Have to agree with what is mentioned in a few posts that its inconceivable that the car is being sold at a 10L price point even after 10 years. There has to be a compromise somewhere.

Also, the constant price revisions of vehicles with stellar reliability like the Innova and Fortuner can also be seen in this context, and not just pure greed on Toyota's part.
Come to think of it, that is quite a feat. I thought the City debuted a little lower at 8 or so.

The quality, I'm sure, and as posted by CrazyDriver will sooner than later revert to it's lofty set standards of Honda. Which makes sticking to the pricing a remarkable feat.

Toyota on the other hand is taking complete and unfair advantage of lack of competition for the Innova. The product i think has seen a near 70% increase in price since debut despite being nearly unchanged.

Also we need to benchmark the against initial quality reports and owner feedback in respect of other auto companies. Unfortunately, a car buying exercise in India is becoming like choosing the lesser evil.

Last edited by vineshpikale : 5th November 2014 at 23:04. Reason: had to add a comment on the need to benchmark other Companies
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Old 6th November 2014, 08:20   #141
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Thumbs up re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jhaji View Post
Well, Liva and Etios cannot be put in the same basket. Interior quality, yes. You may find them unattractive and rather plain. But they have proved to be as reliable as other Toyota cars. I own a Liva, and there are many owners on tbhp whose experiences with Liva and Etios are pretty good as regards reliability even on bad and difficult roads.
Spot on with that. Etios has stayed true to the QDR promise of Toyota. It might look unattractive inside. But, it has stayed reliable, durable and ultra cheap to maintain. I don't think any other car in India ( including Budget Petrol cars like Alto and Nano ) can beat the Etios ( even the Diesel variant of the Etios ) in terms of maintenance cost ( thanks mainly to those high quality spare parts which lasts really long )

Attaching the service cost history of an Etios Liva Diesel which has completed 1,20,000 kms on the odo. I have copies of individual bills of this car. So, if someone needs it to know what exactly is replaced on each service, I can share it.

Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?-etios_maintenance.jpg

Last edited by amalji : 6th November 2014 at 08:32.
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Old 6th November 2014, 10:32   #142
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jhaji View Post
Well, Liva and Etios cannot be put in the same basket. Interior quality, yes. You may find them unattractive and rather plain. But they have proved to be as reliable as other Toyota cars. I own a Liva, and there are many owners on tbhp whose experiences with Liva and Etios are pretty good as regards reliability even on bad and difficult roads.
Quite agree with you. My two year experience with my plain jane Liva diesel with 36K km on the odo is quite similar to yours. People might have a problem with the rather plain look of the interior, but when even after running on bad roads the car holds up like anything. My car, for example has not generated a single rattle.

The facelift model has added some sheen to the interior suited to the tastes of usual Indian car buyers, damped the NVH for diesel models and has added airbags in all models. I would hope Toyota has not compromised on the basic integrity and reliability of this car as Honda did with City.
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Old 6th November 2014, 11:22   #143
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Default Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

Quote:
Originally Posted by avisidhu View Post
Have to agree with what is mentioned in a few posts that its inconceivable that the car is being sold at a 10L price point even after 10 years. There has to be a compromise somewhere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vineshpikale View Post
Come to think of it, that is quite a feat. I thought the City debuted a little lower at 8 or so.
Here are the figures -



2nd generation - Below are the prices as of 16th October 2005, immediately after the City ZX VTec was launched.

City ZX Exi - 7.08L

City ZX GXi - 7.56L

City ZX CVT - 8.19L

City ZX VTEC - 8.40L



*All prices ex-showroom Mumbai. Delhi should have been cheaper.



3rd generation - Below are the prices as of 25th September 2008,



City E MT - 7.7L

City S MT - 8.2L

City S AT - 8.9L




* All prices ex-showroom Delhi.



V variants was introduced later on Sep 15, 2009 -



City V MT - 8.82L

City V AT - 9.54L



4th generation - Below are the current prices -



City E MT - 7.19L

City S MT - 7.83L

City SV MT - 8.41L

City V MT - 8.97L

City VX MT - 9.91L



City SV CVT - 9.51L

City VX CVT - 10.96L




With the second generation, VTEC was a halo model and with the current generation, E and S variants are too barebones for the segment and the real base variant is SV as par with competition. Hence City has moved up from 7.08L - 8.19L range to 8.41 to 10.96L range over the past decade. Not as significant a jump as Toyota though, considering the increasing number of features added!



Quote:
Originally Posted by amalji View Post
Spot on with that. Etios has stayed true to the QDR promise of Toyota. It might look unattractive inside. But, it has stayed reliable, durable and ultra cheap to maintain.
True. Thats why it has become a darling of the taxi market. In Bangalore, most of the taxi cars these days are Etios. I dont see many personal cars though! Etios has taken over where the Logan left.

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 6th November 2014 at 11:39.
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Old 6th November 2014, 11:26   #144
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

I agree with Crazy Driver completely.
I was reading this thread along with the Toyota Innova review thread where most of the members complained about ever increasing prices.

Does that mean that Toyota has passed on the increased costs to the customers by way of price increases while maintaining the same level of quality (Innova has been in the market for over 7-8 years), while Honda has tried to keep the price the same and managed (or at least tried to) maintain margins by cutting costs??
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Old 6th November 2014, 23:06   #145
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post

Hence City has moved up from 7.08L - 8.19L range to 8.41 to 10.96L range over the past decade. Not as significant a jump as Toyota though, considering the increasing number of features added!
Thanks again CD ,

This is more factual information in line with my earlier post .
May be it is also good to add that Honda never increased the prices exorbitantly to cash in on success like the case of Eco Sport.

Also MSIL smartly said the prices for Ciaz are introductory at the launch leaving themselves to good window to see the market response and jack them up.

May be it would be a good Idea to segregate the City's into 2 groups Pre Aug Deliveries and Post Aug Deliveries and see how many owners have reported the major concerns like panel gaps , paint quality (to name a few) , so that we get an understanding if Honda has started considering owner feedback. Let me check If I can gather this information.

The reason I say this is because as per the reports Honda has worked on reduction of noise levels on IDTec and some owners reported that they see the difference in post Aug cars. Hence an assumption being made by me here , may be they paid some attention to the other issues as well that were reported.

Cheers,
pdma.

Last edited by pdma : 6th November 2014 at 23:17.
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Old 6th November 2014, 23:18   #146
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdma View Post
Also MSIL smartly said the prices for Ciaz are introductory at the launch leaving themselves to good window to see the market response and jack them up.
Even after all this, I would any day choose City over Ciaz. I find Ciaz very odd looking. Front grill reminds of old Verna. Rear is City-isque. Cabin appears stretched like the old Tata Indigo XL. Which kinda looks odd. The overall shape does not appear cohesive. I'm sure when novelty of the Ciaz wears off, City would be back in the lead.
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Old 7th November 2014, 11:07   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdma View Post
Thanks again CD ,


May be it would be a good Idea to segregate the City's into 2 groups Pre Aug Deliveries and Post Aug Deliveries and see how many owners have reported the major concerns like panel gaps , paint quality (to name a few) , so that we get an understanding if Honda has started considering owner feedback. Let me check If I can gather this information.

The reason I say this is because as per the reports Honda has worked on reduction of noise levels on IDTec and some owners reported that they see the difference in post Aug cars. Hence an assumption being made by me here , may be they paid some attention to the other issues as well that were reported.

Cheers,
pdma.
I totally agree with you. I have a August delivered city, and I don't have this paint peeling or panel gaps problem. Honda service guys are reluctant to take care of your niggles but the management ensures that your experience has been pleasant by way of feedbacks received.
So thumbs up for Honda trying to solve their issues
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Old 7th November 2014, 11:37   #148
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

Welcome to the new Honda where "chinese" is the new "japanese" . At least Toyota does not cheapen their premium offerings.

On a more serious note, I also began to notice the difference in quality (eg: wafer thin rear doors), when I'd examined my uncle's 2011 Honda City "S" model. At the time, I thought that this was a phenomenon restricted to "S" models or "Corporate Editions".

Recently also, I took a ride in a 2012/13 3rd gen Honda City(the one with the stripey taillights) "S" model and I was shocked to note that the overall build quality and feel had gone down even more. I was unsure of my perception but this thread confirms my findings.

I'm not saying that my 2010 "V" model City AT has some kind of fantastic build viz a viz later models. In fact, when the 3rd gen City was released, I recall people complaining about the build quality especially about the wafer thin boot lid. Still, despite a few areas, the overall build quality, fit and finish was acceptable to me at the time. With the recent models though, I don't think that the City makes a good buy anymore(though not sure about the 4th gen).

I blame localization for this. In fact, every time a manufacturer says that they have increased product localization, I lament the loss in quality of the product.

I feel bad to say this especially since I've always viewed Honda favourably since the days of my father's 1st gen Honda City but it probably makes more sense to go for a Rapid or a Vento at this price point especially from a build quality perspective. Honda isn't the same anymore (at least to me) now that they've compromised on key elements that may affect/have already affected their USP of a well engineered, reliable product.

Last edited by sydras : 7th November 2014 at 11:41.
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Old 7th November 2014, 12:53   #149
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

I guess we all know that the new City does not have the quality and reliability associated with the "H" brand.
Honda was never known to provide tank like build quality (I find it surprising that people are complaining about thin sheet metal etc. because previous gen City also had the same).But their quality control and reliability was second to none. And the fact that it has gone down so badly in what is their 'premium' offering in India is really sad to see.

But, this thread has become a Honda bashing thread. If anyone goes through the Honda City test drive thread, he/she can easily find lots of these complaints. .What I don't like is just to create a thread for bashing a car (and I am truly astonished at the amount of effort put in to prove that the new City has very bad quality). if you want a create a thread for all the issues related to the new City, it's fine. But, it should be more constructive...I mean how to fix the issues, how to escalate the issues through proper channels etc so that the owners can get those resolved. A different POV I guess.

Last edited by adimicra : 7th November 2014 at 12:55.
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Old 7th November 2014, 13:18   #150
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

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Originally Posted by adimicra View Post
I am truly astonished at the amount of effort put in to prove that the new City has very bad quality
It is true that a person carefully analyzing any car - or its related threads - can find problems reported like this. But that doesn't mean that none should try to find problems with City, or reduce the commitment and effort done by Crazy Driver. (BTW, let me ask you Crazy Diver: Vere pani onnum illa, alle?

There was a perception in the Indian industry that Honda City stands for quality. That is what is proved false now. Hardcore Honda fans may find it difficult to digest. But the same will happen to any other person if this happens to his "idols".
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