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Old 10th November 2014, 13:17   #181
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Default Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

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Originally Posted by adimicra View Post
One more question to @crazy_driver - What was the need to mention Ciaz along with the variants and pricing on this thread?
That part of the post (If you notice- it comes after conclusion and PS) was added later on and I didn't give it the same attention as the initial post. The point conveyed was that it's not a cheap variant (as it looks!) but commands a premium over the Ciaz VXi.

The post was later merged with the initial posts by the moderators on my request since I thought the photographs should add value to the front post. I didn't give much thought that it could be used to question my 'intent'!

Will request the moderators to have it removed.

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Originally Posted by adarsh76 View Post
My point is the topic heading "Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?". This is irrelevant, because it was never niggle free. Nor does any car.
Valid point. But then- by your argument we would be misleading people by mentioning 'niggle-free ownership experience' for the official review.

If there are always the same number and depth of niggles reported (as per your argument), that should be changed to 'Niggles as reported by existing users' as is mentioned for most other brands.

Anyways, if you feel the thread title inappropriate - please report the post and let the moderators take a call on that. That should settle the issue. Let's move on.

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 10th November 2014 at 13:23.
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Old 10th November 2014, 13:22   #182
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Originally Posted by searacer932 View Post
Would you be happy to own a car which gives niggling problems (grinding noise, rattling dashboard etc) or happy to own a car which has no niggles but has fairly fundamental problems (examples poor braking in non-ABS variant, compromise to structural integrity, 0 rating in NCAP)
You said it. Forget the brand or little niggles. It's the safety which is most important. The human beings inside the vehicle are the most important. I would go for a safer car which has dashboard rattles or grinding noise.

Honda City and Vento scored a 5 star rating in NCAP. Ok, the test was done outside India so there might be doubts that this may not be specific to India made cars. But does it vary too much? All City cars made in India with passenger and driver side airbags should get 5 star. I don't think Honda will compromise on that. Similar case with Volkswagen as well.

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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Valid point. But then- by your argument we would be misleading people by mentioning 'niggle-free ownership experience' for most of the Honda car reviews.
There is a marketing for everything. The dealerships will say only the best for their cars.

Good reviewers will say relatively fuss free ownership or niggle free ownership. The problem is not with official reviews like Team-BHP or Autocar. If you compare service of Honda with a Skoda or Volkswagen, Honda fares better. If Honda is compared to Hyundai or Maruti, they fare better.

The problem is with those people who just make irrelevant comments on their vehicle trying to prove their car is the best car.

I had to face a lot of bashing from Honda City owners before in another public forum when I said honestly about my Hyundai Accent.

Last edited by Eddy : 10th November 2014 at 13:36. Reason: Merged
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Old 10th November 2014, 13:51   #183
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

Thanks CrAzY dRiVeR for this thread - your effort is appreciated, especially from someone like me who has in person been disapponted with the quality of my 2014 City SV MT. Like i said earlier, here are some issues that I & my 2 colleagues have experienced in our 3 combined i-Vtecs:

1 - Rain water leakage in cabin - in 2/3 cars - major issue that took a while to diagnose but seems fixed now, but peace of mind is severely affected.
2 - Tough to engage reverse gear in 2/3 cars
3 - Dashboard & seat rattles - only in mine i.e. 1/3 cars
4 - Clutch release / grinding noise - in 1/3 cars - not mine luckily!

Car twitching issue at 80+ speeds does NOT exist as of now - seemed it was the heavy monsoon winds on the sea link that were the cause.
Whats also important is that one of my colleagues owned the previous gen 2012 Honda City and notices a perceptible drop in quality levels from his previous car. Lets just hope this niggles dont turn into major issues - hoping the engine/mechanicals remain troublefree and also as someone rightly said - the humans in the car are the most important factor and they should be kept safe from harm by the vehicle.
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Old 10th November 2014, 14:33   #184
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

I wouldn't call CD's effort as a bashing, I am concerned by the rationality of the niggles. Many of them have to be taken with a pinch of salt. I get the feeling that some report issues more to showcase their own importance than the vehicles drawbacks. Or could be a cover for user errors, knowing or unknowing. And this is not just for Honda, TBHP has its share of vehicle enthusiasts for all brands who cannot bear half a Celsius higher than their AC settings and that unforgivable error just made that model a lemon. I wish I had time like CD to dig deep on the niggles and try to segregate the real, the generic and the narcissistic ones.

Here is my summary of my 3 months with the 2014 Honda City iVTEC.

When I booked the ANHC, the iVTEC was not yet available for a test drive and I had never driven a Honda four wheeler till date. I was looking for the optimal combination of safety, power, driving fun and maintenance ease. IMHO, no brand in India sells a piece at around 12 lakhs without niggles. So the vehicle was selected based on my needs and my confidence that I can handle the issues as they come. I was not expecting a flawless machine and I was neither surprised nor shocked with what I got. If someone I know wants my suggestion for a sedan in the 10 - 14L range, I would still say go for the ANHC iVTEC.

Panel gaps, peeling paint and loosely attached body parts: Found none in the PDI and 3 months, 1800km and two services later, the car is pretty much the same one I drove out of the showroom. Still Carnelian Red all over, all flaps in place, headlamps glow and no clouding after heavy rains, brake lights work, turn indicators are fine and no rattles.

ICE, Touch Screen ACC and Communication: Not much of a music buff, but the basic system of my SV works fine. The fascia has no scratches despite my daughters constant fiddling whenever she is in the front seat. No scratches in the touch screen panel, there were occasional unintended contact when shifting gears for the first few hundred kms, that's not an issue anymore once I got used to the interface. Absolutely no niggles with the bluetooth, voice is quite audible at the other end even when driving fast or in a basement. I tested!

Driving and back pain: No twitches, goes like an arrow if the steering is steady, turns when I want her to turn. Yet to take the car for a long drive, but I am not worried. The last car I owned was the venerable Alto LX (without power steering) and the other cars I used in between for long terms were 2013 Chevy Impala and 2013 Dodge Charger. I was comfortable in the Alto, Impala and the Charger for drives exceeding 14 hours a day. Half an inch less of under thigh support is not going to leave me devastated.

I won't comment much about the headlamps, it suits me fine in the city, have not gone out to highways in the night. Alternator belt issue?? Not for me (yet)

So far the only reported issue in the service: "Small clicking noice in ICE on rolling up the rear windows all the way to the top from the drivers panel" (its a mild click heard in the speakers as the windows reach their fully closed state, probably some limiter switch not tested for EMI)

In short, I knew what I am getting for what I paid for, and I got it slightly better than I expected. Honda is not the benchmark in flawlessness and if someone tells you that the -1, 0,1,2 and 3 generations were the epitome of perfection, they probably may not be entirely honest. And if you can accept that statement, then the thread's title needs a tweaking.
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Old 10th November 2014, 14:59   #185
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

Let me start off by mentioning a fantastic effort by CD, better late than never. What certainly is appalling is the response by Honda (some of the responses are documented in this very thread) as any car can have niggles, but what matters is how much the company takes the initial customers seriously to help them to get the issues resolved. Just changing the design or altering the components to ensure future cars do not get these issues is just not done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adimicra View Post
To clarify,
I never said that CD started this thread for bashing the City. But lots of people are just coming to this thread and bashing without sharing their own experiences which I din't like.
There needs to be a balance. No?
Hasn't this been the case on the issue based thread of all manufacturers? When an issue is reported, more than the owners, the non owners post/vent out their frustration without even owning one irrespective who the manufacturer is. The thread loses its purpose even when the solutions are being documented (as and when they solve it that is) because all that thread will have is the "for" and "against" comments (effect of mindless bashing of a few members and the brand lovers vehemently defending it).

Hope this thread remains without such unwanted stuff and is retained to documents the issues and solutions for the benefit of the larger community.

Quote:
Frankly, some of the 'issues' like paint quality, headlamp visibility, ABC pedal vibration, scratches on the HU panel etc etc are there is all cars (if you go through the test drive thread of any car, you will find some issue or the other) and there is no need to blow them out of proportion or sensationalize the matter. Some other important issues like alternator belt noise and rain water leakage are very important and needs more attention. I would urge the City owners to come in and pitch in with their "real life experiences" on these issues and how Honda has addressed or failed to address those.
Are these rectified in the newer batches or still existing?
Paint Quality (Paint peeling off and its an open invitation for the rusting to start) and Headlamp visibility (you may end up on the wrong side of things with poor visibility) are quite serious. Yes these can be fixed, but none comes close to the fix that a manufacturer can provide.

Quote:
This thread gives a very one-sided view of the City which is not right IMO.
I certainly do not feel so. The city has its positives and the brand has been built over the years. There is no point beating the drum with the positives as most of the prospective buyers already are aware of the brand's positives. What was needed was the shortcomings, which is now out in this very thread.

Love is blind, but not all buyers buy a car solely based on love and this thread definitely helps them make an informed decision. For others in love, this thread will not help as they will anyways not bother as love is blind
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Old 10th November 2014, 15:29   #186
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

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Originally Posted by sun_king View Post
...
So far the only reported issue in the service: "Small clicking noice in ICE on rolling up the rear windows all the way to the top from the drivers panel" (its a mild click heard in the speakers as the windows reach their fully closed state, probably some limiter switch not tested for EMI)
...
OMG - same issue in my SV - they blame the aftermarket speaker + amp setup for it. How did you fix it?
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Old 10th November 2014, 15:45   #187
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

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Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
Which is why I just suspect the very timing and motive of this thread.
Whatever Crazy Driver has posted, he has backed it up with hard data. There is no speculation. Facts are facts.

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Why pick on Honda alone? European, especially German cars are exponentially far more unreliable.
I think we have a lot of threads on the unreliable nature of European cars already. What most people are upset over is the cost-cutting practised by Honda, that is becoming more & more evident.

Quote:
Should CD not start a thread on those cars as well?
Why put the onus on him? If you want to see a similar thread on another brand, please feel free to start it yourself. All the information he's posted is on the public forum. You can do the same.

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Wow! So many Honda haters?
To criticise a brand where it has faltered is not hating it. It's putting forth an objective analysis.
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Old 10th November 2014, 16:00   #188
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

Where is this thread leading to? This thread was not started to bash or malign Honda but to put across nose-diving quality of Honda Products and to look with utter disbelief at a brand which commanded respect and premium even in the used cars segment almost blindfolded.
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Old 10th November 2014, 16:17   #189
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

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Originally Posted by deepakv View Post
OMG - same issue in my SV - they blame the aftermarket speaker + amp setup for it. How did you fix it?
Oh man, just when I was partially defending Honda!!!

For me they didn't fix it because they said they wanted more time with the car and I was in a bit of hurry. So we parked it for the time being, I got a few calls from their service center later asking if I can bring the vehicle to get it rectified. It is a rare scenario, hardly a hindrance for me and so I keep postponing. I am happy that at least they did a few follow ups.

But your case is a disappointment because it has nothing to do with aftermarket hardware. I can say that for sure because I have the OEM ICE intact and this was heard quite by coincidence a few days after I got the car. Delegating the blame is a cheap move by your service folks and if you ever wish to follow it up you can quote me. And even if you installed aftermarket gadgetry, the offending noise comes during an electro-mechanical activity of the vehicle. Accepting it and fixing it is the professional way to go.
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Old 10th November 2014, 16:37   #190
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post

There is always one or the other car getting launched. If we decide to wait another few months for the Ciaz to settle down - the refreshed Verna will land on our shores. Then there is a new Rapid planned. The action never dies!
The OP has already stated the reason behind the thread and has also stated it is not his intention to show Ciaz in a better light by putting down the City.

I see that the owners of the 4th gen City are accepting the faults in the car but some are failing to see it or just don't want to.

My take on this issue, If you charge a premium for your product, ensure that the product is premium as well. Simples!
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Old 10th November 2014, 16:47   #191
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

Well, I seriously doubt that one thread like this will influence buyer decision primarily because if you want a petrol sedan (manual) there is no good alternative to the new city!!
As i had posted few pages back, I had booked my 2nd city as I felt the was the best option in 8-12 lakhs range . Fortunately or unfortunately a lot of other people also think so, hence despite booking the car in September, I am still being told that the earliest I can expect it to be delivered is end December !!

In the mean time, a lot of manufacturers came with exciting year end offers and I again started thinking as to whether it made sense to have 2 city's ?
I started test driving cars again and finally decided to cancel my booking for the city and go for a Duster AWD(after adjusting my budget a bit) as we already have a sedan & hatch in our house.

At least in my case,Honda lost a repeat customer in me only for the delay in delivery and not even 1 % because of this thread.

p.s. my service adviser for Honda had told me way back in February what C_D has written that the new city has added a lot of features and lost some of the build quality

Last edited by i_see : 10th November 2014 at 16:49.
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Old 10th November 2014, 17:53   #192
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

The new point of argument by various T-Bhpians that the niggles, etc. are expected in first batch of production cars is much more surprising to me than this thread itself.
Reason for that is that over the years on T-Bhp it was well settled that it is the forte of Indian manufacturer's (case in point Indica Ist batch and recently XUV5OO). I don't ever recall such reason is given for Maruti, Nissan or any foreign manufacturer's (It may be mentioned somewhere but so far I haven't come across such post). In fact, I do have read at various places that whenever the production is increasingly localised in later batches, the quality definitely takes a dip. (Classic eg. Ford Fusion). Doesn't it says a lot wrt our attitude towards quality and quality control.
As I have mentioned in my previous posts, why blame Honda who is laughing all the way to bank and has easily dethroned Verna from No.1 slot and commanding five months waiting period and still have a loyal fan base claiming that there is still no alternative to City. It indicates the sorry state of affairs in C segment.
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Old 10th November 2014, 17:57   #193
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

I am in a dilemma, the last time I wanted a car , I followed my heart and went for a Punto. To be fair , it has been a reliable car with no major issues for the first 4 years but dealing with the A** has left me wanting a more peaceful ownership. Add to it, the appalling FE in my 1.4 petrol left my wallet burning.
So this time I thought , I will follow my head and go with the reliable Honda. I have followed Team-Bhp for years and knew that Honda city was trust worthy.
Until this thread appeared just when I did my test drive. I am sure many like me who have owned a FIAT can relate to the ownership woes that are caused by the A**. I did like the test drive. can anyone explain the situation better. Is the City still the more reliable vehicle. Just that its off the pedestal? How can one iteration completely change things so drastically? I realize Honda has changed their approach with more focus on the Brio / Amaze platform and catering to the mass market. Just don't understand why mass market means poor quality. Cant they skim on unwanted equipment and keep quality checked?
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Old 10th November 2014, 18:02   #194
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Totally agree with adarsh76, this thread is a boon for Honda owners and should be used for tackling potential problems. This should not be used as a Honda bashing thread which gives liberty to people to say anything they want. People are never satisfied hence the complains will never stop. Constructive criticism is always good where both the customers and the company stand to benefit. But I still thank Crazydriver for this thread for making us aware of the unique problems of this model, indeed very helpful.
Also if you all have seen wheelerdealer in discovery turbo, the presenter buys and sells second hand cars and are aware of the unique problems of every model and evaluates accordingly. So no car is bulletproof reliable.
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Old 10th November 2014, 18:39   #195
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

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Originally Posted by fastraj View Post
Totally agree with adarsh76, this thread is a boon for Honda owners and should be used for tackling potential problems. This should not be used as a Honda bashing thread which gives liberty to people to say anything they want. People are never satisfied hence the complains will never stop. Constructive criticism is always good where both the customers and the company stand to benefit. But I still thank Crazydriver for this thread for making us aware of the unique problems of this model, indeed very helpful.
Also if you all have seen wheelerdealer in discovery turbo, the presenter buys and sells second hand cars and are aware of the unique problems of every model and evaluates accordingly. So no car is bulletproof reliable.
If that were the case, why "niggle-free anymore?" in the title, it would have been better to use an appropriate title and everyone could move along. The tone here is that the older Hondas were of great quality (It was not) and the new Honda is a disaster (It is not). I said the "tone", I am not saying that it is being said so explicitly nor am I pointing fingers. It is just the canonization of the old Honda City (it's dense plastic actually) that feels irritating in this thread.

While CD did a great compilation for the ANHC, I believe the same diligence is missing in assessing the niggles of the earlier Cities. And with that background effort absent, the freedom to use "niggle-free anymore?" is questionable. "A compilation of Honda City (4th Gen) Niggles" is what it is in reality and that is nothing new. Price x Features x Quality tends to be a constant in most cases and a trade-off is almost inevitable in this price range.
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