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Old 5th January 2016, 11:57   #301
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Originally Posted by libranof1987 View Post
Interesting analysis.

Could increased localization have any part to play in this? Although I would be extremely surprised and disappointed if Indian manufacturing standards weren't up to the mark. There isn't any reason for manufactured-in-India vehicles to be not as good as those manufactured elsewhere.

You've raised a very important point: why should the Indian variants be not as good as the Malaysian ones? I would consider the Indian market fairly mature and it really pains me to note that Malaysia and Thailand get better cars. I mean, do manufacturers consider us that stupid? Or are they that arrogant about India?
That's a rubbish claim. Localisation does not mean lesser quality. A good example would be the Elite i20. Brilliantly executed with high quality interiors and exteriors. They're surely getting to Euro standards!!

Even BMW ( if I remember correctly) is planning to localise more. They couldn't before as the local industries couldn't produce the quality they desired.

The problem with Honda is they're looking at profits and profits only. They overpriced the 1st Gen Jazz and the 3rd Gen City and were forced to cut prices. This time around they're skipping out on quality to produce cars which they can sell it at a competitive price( overpriced IMHO).

In short, they're banking on their reputation to sell cars while compromising (and destroying) the same.
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Old 5th January 2016, 12:02   #302
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Not sure if this is the right thread to post my queries
Mods pls merge with a more apt thread
I have a 2006 city ZX
Since the last 1 yr my air con is not effective. It does not cool the car during the day. But cools sufficiently during the nights. Strange problem
Is this the AC gas issue? Or something more severe. Last year HASS quoted around 7k for a complete AC overhaul. I did not go for it. Pls advise as I plan to get this sorted before the Gurgaon summers start
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Old 5th January 2016, 13:10   #303
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

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Originally Posted by Turbohead View Post
That's a rubbish claim. Localisation does not mean lesser quality. A good example would be the Elite i20. Brilliantly executed with high quality interiors and exteriors. They're surely getting to Euro standards!!

Even BMW ( if I remember correctly) is planning to localise more. They couldn't before as the local industries couldn't produce the quality they desired.

The problem with Honda is they're looking at profits and profits only. They overpriced the 1st Gen Jazz and the 3rd Gen City and were forced to cut prices. This time around they're skipping out on quality to produce cars which they can sell it at a competitive price( overpriced IMHO).

In short, they're banking on their reputation to sell cars while compromising (and destroying) the same.
They are not localizing because there aren't enough fellow Japs in the component manufacturing in India. My relative works in a MNC which has manufacturing in India, & it supplies automotive parts to all over the world, even Europe & North America.

The issue with the Japs & Koreans (to some extent) is that they tend to support & prefer fellow countrymen over others, irrespective of the country they are operating in. This is why they fail to localize their products to the extent Renault has managed in case of Kwid.

And obviously they make bag loads of Rs.1000/- bills on every car they make.

I do agree that Jap product quality is good, but others have closed the gap & in fact started setting standards for them.

Time to wake up for the Japs IMO.
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Old 5th January 2016, 13:26   #304
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

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Originally Posted by ashwin.raj80 View Post
When i drive the car in a bad patches i hear a "KAT KAT" sound from front right side. This is not so when driven in smooth roads. Can some one confirm is it some thing related to steering or some other part ?
Thanks to Sathyanarayanan N for sharing this information!

Quote:
This is regarding the post no 294 made by ashwin.raj80. I own a 2010 Honda City and the problem mentioned by him is a common problem faced by many City owners.

Even I faced the same problem. There will be a “kat” sound when the car goes over bad patches of roads. The sound will occur rarely in the beginning and day by day, it will start increasing and the sound started even on small (even very small) imperfections on the road.

This problem starts around 70K kms. The solution provided by ASC was to change the EPS unit which costs around 55K. Please refer to the attached images of the EPS unit of my City. The highlighted part in the first image is where the “kat” noise comes from the steering unit (as informed by the technician in the ASC). So the only thing to do is to change the EPS unit.

However the sound didn’t cause any major problems. I drove with the sound for more than 10K kms. No issues.

P.S… The EPS unit is covered under anytime warranty. What I would suggest is go and get the anytime warranty (costs around 10K).
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Old 5th January 2016, 15:05   #305
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

Thanks GTO for your reference ! I will check this out in HONDA at 75K service interval. My heart skipped a beat upon the rates mentioned by Mr.Sathayanarayana for EPS component :(
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Old 5th January 2016, 15:19   #306
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

What is this anytime warranty? Does it mean I can take anytime warranty and pay just 10K for the new steering rack? Just last week I sent my car for the same problem. When the ASC quoted 50K, I gave the car to an independent garage. They changed the bush for 8.5K and the kat kat sound is solved now.
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Old 27th March 2016, 16:08   #307
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

@CrAzY dRiVeR cant thank you enough for starting this thread. Even, i would had picked new gen honda city without giving it a thought, thanks to the famous Honda reliability!

Extremely sad that i would have to ignore this car because of these issues. i cant run behind Honda A.S.S every now and then

Looks like Ciaz is my only option as of now!
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Old 27th March 2016, 18:16   #308
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

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Originally Posted by B103 View Post
This is just a cause-effect relationship.

In India, large sections of people vote for religion, caste or freebies. You can see the type of politicians getting elected each time. Money and criminality have become an essential ingredient of politics. This is not something that most people directly desire but comes as a side effect.

With the huge fascination for frills & features coupled with penchant to buy 'value for money' cars, a similar trend will be inevitable in the Indian auto industry too.

How many people were buying 3rd gen City when Verna came out with lot of features? Quoting Darwin -- "it is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change". Localization to match Verna feature-by-feature and dieselisation looked like a logical thing to do in order to sustain or thrive. The impact is here to see; Where is Verna now?

So, how can we say the strategy was wrong!! We get the cars that we deserve. Along with wishing for a an improved product, I also wish for a change in this quirky and stereotypical Indian mindset, for good. Alas

Sorry, can't agree with you about the Verna. The sales might have dropped off because the Verna is a bit too long in the teeth & the 'Fluidic' design hasn't withstood the test of time and can't hold up when compared to the new gen designs from Honda & Maruti.

But one thing that hasn't changed a bit about Hyundai of 2016 is the quality of build. You won't find a 'Niggles' thread similar to the City for the Verna because Hyundai hasn't cut corners in the quality department like Honda has. Even now, it has many non-gimmicky features that none of Hyundai competitors offer (like 6 airbags, rear disc brakes etc). Hyundai also has a high localiation like Honda but none of the shoddy workmanship. Blaming India for being responsible for City's problems is a cop-out. Even today, 2016 City is expensive than Verna, so where is that extra premium Honda is charging is going to?

Reading this thread should be an indictment of Honda India for their shoddy quality of their bread & butter model. Many non-petrolheads are hearing about the shoddy quality of the current City. A reputation once lost is gone forever.

Last edited by Desi Dybuk : 27th March 2016 at 18:19.
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Old 27th March 2016, 18:40   #309
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

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Originally Posted by Desi Dybuk View Post
Sorry, can't agree with you about the Verna. The sales might have dropped off because the Verna is a bit too long in the teeth & the 'Fluidic' design hasn't withstood the test of time and can't hold up when compared to the new gen designs from Honda & Maruti.

But one thing that hasn't changed a bit about Hyundai of 2016 is the quality of build. You won't find a 'Niggles' thread similar to the City for the Verna because Hyundai hasn't cut corners in the quality department like Honda has. Even now, it has many non-gimmicky features that none of Hyundai competitors offer (like 6 airbags, rear disc brakes etc). Hyundai also has a high localiation like Honda but none of the shoddy workmanship. Blaming India for being responsible for City's problems is a cop-out. Even today, 2016 City is expensive than Verna, so where is that extra premium Honda is charging is going to?

Reading this thread should be an indictment of Honda India for their shoddy quality of their bread & butter model. Many non-petrolheads are hearing about the shoddy quality of the current City. A reputation once lost is gone forever.
This thread is about Honda and so probably we are digressing from main topic.

I am not qualified to talk about Verna per se but I had a Getz prior to City and boy, it was pretty crappy. I have 2 colleagues who own i10s and both are not satisfied about the quality and service costs of their vehicle. The perception is that quality levels of Hyundai varies across models. Many people vouch for Santro for sure. But there are other models which are not up to the mark.

City is currently selling multiple times than Verna now. So, where is the tangible reputation loss that you were referring?

Last edited by B103 : 27th March 2016 at 18:42.
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Old 27th March 2016, 18:49   #310
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

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Originally Posted by B103 View Post
City is currently selling multiple times than Verna now. So, where is the tangible reputation loss that you were referring?
See, my fear is that this thread itself is an indicator of the severity of problems with the current City. It is quite unusual for a mass market sedan in a mature market to have so many quality issues and not get singed with bad reputation.

The City has always been the 'it' car in this segment. The Indian car buyer is rapidly getting younger (more younger people buying cars). The younger demographic doesn't always go by the perceived reputation. They research online , read about potential issues and aren't afraid of airing their problems aloud for everyone to hear. A bad experience from Honda means that they might have lost a potential customer in 3-4 years time as well. This thread on Team BHP itself will be enough to sow the seeds of distrust about Honda in anyone's mind.

The fact that so many genuine issues have cropped up should be a concern for Honda. If you feel that a bad reputation doesn't hurt a brand, you only need to look at Skoda & their reputation amongst younger buyers.

Yes, many Indians buy an Apple iPhone because it is an iPhone. But there are a lot of more people who buy One Plus 2 & Xiaomi Mi5 because they offer more bang for buck.

Last edited by Desi Dybuk : 27th March 2016 at 18:50.
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Old 27th March 2016, 19:26   #311
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

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Originally Posted by Desi Dybuk View Post
See, my fear is that this thread itself is an indicator of the severity of problems with the current City. It is quite unusual for a mass market sedan in a mature market to have so many quality issues and not get singed with bad reputation.

The City has always been the 'it' car in this segment. The Indian car buyer is rapidly getting younger (more younger people buying cars). The younger demographic doesn't always go by the perceived reputation. They research online , read about potential issues and aren't afraid of airing their problems aloud for everyone to hear. A bad experience from Honda means that they might have lost a potential customer in 3-4 years time as well. This thread on Team BHP itself will be enough to sow the seeds of distrust about Honda in anyone's mind.

The fact that so many genuine issues have cropped up should be a concern for Honda. If you feel that a bad reputation doesn't hurt a brand, you only need to look at Skoda & their reputation amongst younger buyers.

Yes, many Indians buy an Apple iPhone because it is an iPhone. But there are a lot of more people who buy One Plus 2 & Xiaomi Mi5 because they offer more bang for buck.
These concerns are true to a large extent. Honda somehow missed the plot while localizing the car. They have openly admitted it and declared that amends will be made.

In case of City, the core iVtec engine is not compromised as per any of the complaints. The engine was and is still a gem. The title of the thread itself is about "niggles" and all the hue and cry are about the quality of non-core parts like rubber beading or other similar stuff which I believe was localized without proper quality control.

As far as I know, the Skoda story has a different angle. The estimate of normal service cost for cars like Laura and Superb are many times in the tune of 1+ lac. Also, there are many core problems (not mere niggles) as reported in various ownership threads. The cost of parts are also exorbitantly high as well.
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Old 27th March 2016, 19:45   #312
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

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Originally Posted by B103 View Post
These concerns are true to a large extent. Honda somehow missed the plot while localizing the car. They have openly admitted it and declared that amends will be made.

In case of City, the core iVtec engine is not compromised as per any of the complaints. The engine was and is still a gem. The title of the thread itself is about "niggles" and all the hue and cry are about the quality of non-core parts like rubber beading or other similar stuff which I believe was localized without proper quality control.

As far as I know, the Skoda story has a different angle. The estimate of normal service cost for cars like Laura and Superb are many times in the tune of 1+ lac. Also, there are many core problems (not mere niggles) as reported in various ownership threads. The cost of parts are also exorbitantly high as well.
All manufacturers in India are producing reliable and trouble free engines & transmissions in India, be it Toyota or Honda or even Tata & Mahendra. The Fiat or Hyundai engines are as reliable as, if not more than the Honda engines. The days of Ambassadors & Premier Padminis are over in India.

The water seepage, rattling, EPS failing etc are niggles that should have been ironed out during prototype testing. Terming these as 'niggles' is just underplaying the problem. People have to take these cars to the dealerships, waste money on cabs & lost productivity time. When other so-called 'lesser' manufacturers are able to produce better cars for lesser money, Honda has no excuse.

Blaming indigenisation is a poor excuse for Honda to hide their inefficiency. Hyundai, Suzuki, VW have all exported their cars with Indian OEM parts & there haven't been such complaints.

In addition, reading the threads here it appears that Honda is not exactly going out of their way to help their customers (as was evident in Honda accusing a fellow poster here of have had an accident when he complained of a ill-closing door).

If Honda has admitted their problems as you claim they have, I would like to see the source please. Also, if they have admitted, they should be proactive in coming up with solutions for common problems faced by owners.

Sorry, this is on Honda's head. They can't place the blame at Indian customer's or vendor's feet this time.
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Old 11th April 2016, 09:15   #313
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

Thank you Crazy Driver for your inputs!! I was contemplating between XUV and Honda City. Only reason I was in favor of city was considering the reliability older generation city offered. After going through this thread I feel XUV niggles appears to be tiny and can be ignored. City niggles are mammoth !!
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Old 11th April 2016, 10:50   #314
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

I've been owning the VX CVT since February 2015 and first paid service was over in February. I'd like to share some of my thoughts on the 'niggles' so far (purely from my experience and not intended to generalize even if common points may be there):
  • Rattling: From the 1st free service, I've been pointing out at the rattlings coming out from the AC vents and the door panels. Despite the points being identified by the Seervice guys and being fixed, they return with vengance after few days. This was rectified in the 1st paid service done recently too, but the story remains the same and I'm used to it now.
  • Sound while opening the boot - The service guys greased & greased & greased the 'spring' (as they told me). Yet the same sound remains.
  • Left Wiper bush making noise in rain - It may be a case of slight misalignment of the blade. But the explanation given by Service was "Sir, the blade has the tendency to bend a bit if the car is exposed to sunlight. Hence, you should avoid exposure to harsh sunlight so that the bush won't make noise'. Now, can Honda or it's Service show me one place in India, where there won't be sunlight not strong enough to bend the blade? This is absurd. I just couldn't stop laughing at this pathetic explanation being offered. I said "OK, replace the blade", to which the response was "Sir, even if you replace, sunlight would bend the next blade too. So kindly adjust with the noise".
  • Effectiveness of Door sealing - I always use AC and doesn't drive with windows down dues to the high dust content, and also doesn't like dust particles inside the car, especially the Piano Black console. But the sealing of doors is so poor (may be slightly better than Hyundai) that the dust particles seeps in even if the car is left unopened for few days. This makes me wipe the interiors and dashboard atleast twice a week. In comparison, my previous Skoda Fabia & Ford (own an Ecosport TDCi) is so much sealed that I had to wipe the dashboard/ console once in 10 days only.
  • Lightness - Maybe the 'cost-saving' or 'mileage' was given more priority by Honda that the City feels like real tin-can when compared to other 2 mentioned above. Infact, during my drives in Tamilnadu (particularly during the Aadi period when there would be heavy wind), City was jolting side-wise so much that we had to stop the car so many times for the wind to settle. Since I interchange the usage of Ecosport & City frquently, the difference I feel is huge. I hope members can understand what I meant
Skoda Rapid (TDi DSG) was also in my consideration list when i was hunting for an AT to replace my Fabia. The main considerations that went in favor of Honda to buy CVT was the 'Honda Value' for resale and it had an excellent Auto-Transmission CVT. But now, having so much 'niggles' in City, has prompted me to ask if I should ever recommend a Honda to anyone? I had 6 fully-satisfied years of Fabia ownership and compared to that, Honda, in 1 year has 'compensated' for that. Probably, if Honda remains this way, it would be a case of 'Never-again'.

Last edited by Mysticeyes : 11th April 2016 at 10:51.
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Old 11th April 2016, 13:27   #315
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

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Originally Posted by Turbohead View Post

The problem with Honda is they're looking at profits and profits only. They overpriced the 1st Gen Jazz and the 3rd Gen City and were forced to cut prices. This time around they're skipping out on quality to produce cars which they can sell it at a competitive price( overpriced IMHO).

In short, they're banking on their reputation to sell cars while compromising (and destroying) the same.
The other issue with Honda is that most of their cars are now made in Thailand, and they list them at prices that are more than their competitors (such as Toyota, Nissan, Mazda etc.) whose cars are actually built in Japan. You cannot go selling a car made in/for a developing economy in developed countries at a premium price because of the brand name/brand loyalty - it just doesn't work that way.

I will say that Toyota can afford to do this though, because Toyota has a huge customer base, something which Honda lacks. They never had a huge market to begin with, and lets be honest here, they stopped making exciting cars in the 90s. There's nothing in their current lineup that makes me (the customer) stand up and take notice. Take the new Civic for example - it looks so dated compared to the competition; and rightly so; because Honda still insist on using a weak 1.8L engine that is 10+ years old, meanwhile their competition (especially Mazda) is miles ahead.

No wonder Mercedes Benz sell more cars than Honda here!
http://www.caradvice.com.au/430599/m...rs-and-losers/
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