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Old 1st November 2014, 11:57   #31
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

The City available in the UAE on a totally different level of quality. The gaps are consistent, and everything feels premium to the touch. Plush and feature laden too. Being Automatic, pricing is more or less the same as manuals over there. Wonder which plant makes these cars.
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Old 1st November 2014, 12:04   #32
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

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Originally Posted by Sebring View Post
The City available in the UAE on a totally different level of quality. The gaps are consistent, and everything feels premium to the touch. Plush and feature laden too. Being Automatic, pricing is more or less the same as manuals over there. Wonder which plant makes these cars.
Honda's Thailand plant in Ayutthaya apparently. No wonder!

Source: Rushlane
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Old 1st November 2014, 12:12   #33
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

Fantastic effort CD!

I guess we should have similar threads for all manufacturers. The official test drive threads have a lot of information which gets burried progressively.

Would take a huge effort though to compile and it is indeed comendable that you meticulously prepared this one!

Coming to the car, I agree. Honda City was my favourite Sedan. But no longer. After test driving it you cannot help but notice that the quality has gone down. The Vento, which is barebones comapred to features, feels a much better place to be in due to the quality that is evident.

I have to agree the arrogance of dealers too. When I was helping my colleague chose a new automatic Sedan, we had been to Crystal Honda Pune. We asked the Sales guy to explain us how he feels City is better than Vento. His response was, "sir aap vento dekh rahe hain. (a pause) theek hain dekh leejiye, mujhe aur kuch nahi kehna, yeh toh Honda hain. Log toh Naam se hi line banaate hain khareedne ko.. no problem aap vento bhi dekh leejiye. khareedenge aap City hi."

(Sir, are you looking at the vento too (a pause) ok I dont have much to say, this is a Honda, people are queuing up to buy just for the Brand, No problem, you can look at the Vento too, but you will come back to us only)

You can call it arrogance, over confidence and what not, but the guy was not interested in telling us why his product is better than others in the market. He wanted us to buy just because it is a Honda.

We did go to check the Vento and my colleague ended up buying Vento TSI.

The less said about Mobilio and Amaze, the better. I feel hard to believe that they are Honda.
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Old 1st November 2014, 12:38   #34
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

A must read thread to the ones who believe in 'Brands' , to say the least !
My BIL is such a fan of Honda that he sold off his Verna fluidic to get a City now.[ lack of Diesel Hondas made him buy verna last time] And with announcement of City's entry, he was so enthusiastic to go for it. But thankfully, they were other more important works to be addressed and the Car shopping got postponed which I see a blessing in disguise now.
One might go through this thread and revisit his ' faith on Honda' .
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Old 1st November 2014, 12:57   #35
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

Absolutely fantastic analysis! You deserve all the accolades Crazy Driver, for meticulously bringing out facts. It is quite appalling really to see Honda stoop so low.
Where's the pride gone, Honda? Where's the pride of building fabulous engines and cars that you once surely had? When you lose the pride, the way ahead is only downhill. Two thumbs down.
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Old 1st November 2014, 13:20   #36
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

Meanwhile, Honda japan launched the city hybrid as the Honda Grace.

And it gets -

1. 4WD!
2. i-DCT 7 speed twin clutch transmission.
3. Twin projector LED headlights.
4. LED taillamps.

Along with other features from the malysian city mentioned earlier.
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Old 1st November 2014, 13:29   #37
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

My take on this thread:
I guess its not correct to put blame entirely on Honda. This was bound to happen and expected. The timing of this thread will help many Bhpians to decide on Ciaz v City and folks in MSIL would be laughing in their office for such an invaluable help by Crazy Driver free of cost.
If someone digs into threads related to Honda, eg. Honda - the way forward, etc. one may find that the majority was of the view that Honda must reduce the price or give in more features. So can anyone tell how is it possible to reduce the price or give more value without compromising on quality. Can anyone give a single example for that. Even the perceived niggle free Hyundai has reduced the build quality of Santro to a large extent, i10 is going the same way and I read somewhere where a Bhpian correctly posted that Maruti has added the features in Swift in the facelift and Hyundai has reduced the features in the name of facelift for i20.
One should also remember that almost 40% of the on-road price is made up of taxes which do not go in the pocket of manufacturers.
Infact more than Honda, I would blame the customers who buy such products in huge numbers in the name of "Apna/Apni Honda".

I can draw a parallel with Hindi movies where the big actors/production houses/directors are faced with constant question as to 100 cr club or meaningful cinema.
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Old 1st November 2014, 14:08   #38
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

Quote:
Originally Posted by carwatcher View Post
My take on this thread:
I guess its not correct to put blame entirely on Honda. This was bound to happen and expected.
Was it expected?

From our official review -

What you'll like:

• Practical diesel, fast petrol and convenient CVT. Take your pick
• Loaded with equipment (sunroof, feather-touch climate control, keyless entry & go, rear air-con, reversing camera)
• Extremely spacious cabin. Loads of sensible touches make it easy to live with
• Diesel & Petrol, both, have segment-topping ARAI fuel efficiency ratings
• Big 510 liter boot will swallow your airport & holiday luggage
• Light controls, slick gearshift and easy maneuverability for the city. Effortless to drive
Honda's reliability & fuss-free ownership experiences

We always highlight reliability and fuss-free ownership experience as one of the main highlights of owning a Honda.

Many members even went ahead and took delivery of their cars without even a test drive. Some members even didnt see the variant they booked until delivery. Most of the showrooms didn't have CVT variants for test drive, and it was only when the initial lot of customer cars arrived that owners realized there is no paddle-shift on the SV variants (Not mentioned in brochure!)

Was this expected?

A customer paying a million rupees on a Honda expected his petrol engine to give grinding noises? He expected his car to sit under covers because of rain water seepage? He expected his car to visit the service centers multiple times without getting a resolution? I dont think they did!

Quote:
Originally Posted by carwatcher View Post
The timing of this thread will help many Bhpians to decide on Ciaz v City and folks in MSIL would be laughing in their office for such an invaluable help by Crazy Driver free of cost.
There is always one or the other car getting launched. If we decide to wait another few months for the Ciaz to settle down - the refreshed Verna will land on our shores. Then there is a new Rapid planned. The action never dies!

Quote:
Originally Posted by carwatcher View Post
So can anyone tell how is it possible to reduce the price or give more value without compromising on quality. Can anyone give a single example for that.
I had mentioned this long back in the City thread -

Me and wife went to TD the City and had almost decided to buy it. Wife was hell-bent on purchasing the City thanks to the brand value. We dropped it after a good test drive. Next stop was the VW showroom. Vento felt smaller in comparison, had lesser features - but everything inside felt good. And it was priced a lot lesser than the top end City. The showroom experience was also miles ahead.

For my parents, we went to book the Amaze V-AT. Was almost shooed out of the showroom because the sales rep wanted to close shop and go home. The quality felt atrocious for the price and we dropped the decision to buy a car. Held on to our WagonR for a good 6 months till the Xcent AT was launched later. It had lesser price tag, much better quality and lot more features.

Another example with the Honda Mobilio. I had a close look at one few days back and the sheer size of the seats (or the lack of it) shocked me. Haven't noticed such small middle bench seats in any cars other than the Omni perhaps! In comparison, I feel Ertiga offers more quality at a much lower price.

Three examples from three different manufacturers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by carwatcher View Post
I would blame the customers who buy such products in huge numbers in the name of "Apna/Apni Honda".

I can draw a parallel with Hindi movies where the big actors/production houses/directors are faced with constant question as to 100 cr club or meaningful cinema.
And I hope those customers take notice of this thread. I have done whats possible within my limits to bring out an issue I felt relevant. If Ciaz falters, I hope I can stand up the same way, or another BHP'ian does! So that companies like Honda or any other company offer that matter - offers us the quality we deserve.

Brilliant parallel with the movies! There was a malayalam film called 'Udayananu Tharam'. Fully based on this theme and worth a watch incase you know malayalam/ or watch other language films.
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Old 1st November 2014, 14:33   #39
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

At the outset, Thanks for this thread - a real eye opener.

I have a 2nd Gen Honda City in India which has run 100K and has had 1 issue so far - a combination switch went kaput and had to be replaced at a cost of 1200. Apart from that, the car has been perfect.

One would normally think that 2 generations on (this is the 4th gen ?), quality would have improved...so to have evidence presented of a perceptible decline in quality is a shock! I have not seen or experienced the new City in any form, but can attest the 3nd gen City which I have driven to some extent didn't feel as premium as the 2nd gen, so one would normally assume the next gen would correct such faults.

The only way things will change is when media / owners start complaining and sales are affected. We need a Consumer Reports equivalent in India as opposed to the gushing 'report only the positives' media / magazines we currently have.
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Old 1st November 2014, 14:35   #40
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

I have a 2009 model iVTech City AT. It is a wonderful machine and all I had to replace after close to 5 years is a bush in the fuel lid. My 2009 City hardly had any features and the price was considered quite high at that time. Now, City is loaded with all kind of gizmos with almost comparable price!!

Having said that, I am not surprised to read this article. Indians flock towards vehicles with maximum number of features and minimal price. City has been heavily localized to drive the cost down. In fact, that is what every car company is trying to do to drive down cost. I'm pretty sure the spare part vendors in India will not be of the same quality as that in other evolved markets.

Feeling of 'value for money' is very important here. However, long term intangibles like quality and durability are not part of the notion of 'value for money'. It is more to do with the features, spec and space.

Last edited by B103 : 1st November 2014 at 14:38.
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Old 1st November 2014, 15:11   #41
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

Thanks to this thread, my doubt has been confirmed which I had about the build quality compared to the previous city. It isn't as confidence inspiring either. This makes my decision even more easier for my next purchase which had mainly 4 contenders, City V-MT I-VTEC, Vento TDI/TSI DSG and the Rapid TDI DSG. The European twins are built better than the previous City as well. so with this gen of City, There is no comparison with the European twins as far as the build quality and fit and finish goes.

Last edited by magikrider : 1st November 2014 at 15:16.
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Old 1st November 2014, 15:28   #42
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

I faced a very peculiar problem of not being able to easily select the reverse gear for a long time during the early days.

In fact, many times the gear would get stuck in some "pocket" and then not get out of it unless I would apply a lot of force. I have never applied such unusual amount of force while engaging the reverse gear, and often I would be scared whether I was doing it wrong or if something would break.

I never took the vehicle to the service station to get it checked up, because it was very hard to replicate. It would happen mostly when the car wasn't warmed up. As soon as it was warmed up a bit, the slotting would ease up tremendously.

The car does not drive right at high speeds too, I cannot explain it, but it drives somewhat like a skittish dog at high speeds.
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Old 1st November 2014, 15:46   #43
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

A very well compiled & elaborate thread . Big thumbs up !!
I thank my lucky stars that i bought the 3rd generation CITY in August 2013, just before this major fiasco .
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Old 1st November 2014, 15:55   #44
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

Colossal. Hope Honda and its prospective customers benefit from the effort put in to compile and summarize the info. And what about this hydrolocking issue? No major effort on part of Honda to resolve the same. Surprising that most Honda customers are not even complaining!
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Old 1st November 2014, 16:01   #45
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

Great job, crazydriver! The analysis has a very academic approach to it.

While this is certainly a Honda problem, I also see this as an India problem. Most companies that head to India, over a period of time, dilute their core beliefs in lieu of better profits.

The Indian upper management, i.e. white collared crooks, would usually be responsible for initiating the trend. The parent companies, when they see fancy powerpoints with drastic projected growth rates, salivate with greed and turn a blind eye to everything else. Why wouldn't they, given the absence/non-enforcement of consumer-protection laws?

Anyhow, I see this thread as an eye-opener for Honda to wake up and smell the coffee.
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