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Old 1st November 2014, 21:53   #61
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

Great thread C_D !

My gut feel is, and I do not have the data to corroborate this, that this may not be happening only to Honda and might be an industry wide trend. Reading the various ownership threads I get a feeling that even the mighty Maruti and Hyundai are going the same way.

e.g. Is it only me or do you guys also feel that the number of complaints about the new Swift are on the increase ?
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Old 1st November 2014, 21:54   #62
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

In end 2012, I knew the new gen City was due in 15 months but decided not to wait. This thread proves it was a wise decision.

I have been a strong advocate of the City and even without a TD of the new City, I had been strongly recommending this to my friends. But I have not been successful since one of them went for a Linea and the other is tilting to a Vento. Just yesterday I was commenting to my wife that my convincing abilities (and I sure was very pushy on City) were going down and today I read about this. No wonder my friends are not going for the City.

On a positive note, these observations are fixable and I hope Honda is able to get down to the nuts and bolts of this one. Has this got anything to do with the fact that they were winding off City production from one factory and moving to the other? Imagine getting work done out of folks on notice period. Lousy excuse but could it be one of the reasons for the shoddy job?

Thanks for starting the thread. I am sure it is more of a cry of pain from avid followers than a complaint.
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Old 1st November 2014, 22:34   #63
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

This thread has come up at exactly the right time for me. Two days back, my BIL sent me pics from his Ciaz TD (to replace the ageing Fiesta at home) and I advised him to go for the City instead. I have now sent him the link to this thread. Maybe we have to now just wait a few months for a similar thread to come up on the Ciaz before plonking money on one
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Old 1st November 2014, 22:54   #64
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

Thanks a Ton CD for putting this up .

We all definitely agree that things are not the same and to an extent not expected or acceptable as well.

However I also have the below thought which I would want to put forward with clear mind in-spite of a huge possibility that I would be bashed up in the coming posts , anyways let me start with the disclaimer " All the views are strictly IMO and I do not intend to spark any aggressive debate ".

I have always known Honda cars to be in the close to 10 L bracket , in fact I vaguely remember seeing an invoice of a 2003 VTEC somewhere close to 10+ L OTR.

10 years back when I was in my final stages of my graduation I remember going with my father to the weekly vegetable market and at the end of the road he used to treat me with a glass of sugarcane juice which was Rs 3 or narial pani which was like Rs 5.

Now when I goto the same market I pay Rs 12 for a smaller glass of sugarcane juice and Rs 25-28 for the coconut water , however I still see City in the Rs 10-12 L bracket.

As Eddy rightly pointed out the issue is with most of the manufacturers now a days having said that I definitely do not mean that the quality should be accepted.

Nokia 6600 was the best everyone wanted to have for close to 7K many years back , now for the same 7K we get many touch screen smartphones with many more features and far better usability however do these phones have the same steady build and can they withstand the abuse that a 6600 can take.

Iam not sure If I made my point clear.What I want to express is that low quality is not acceptable at the same time wanting all & more for the same price is also fine , however somewhere down the line the balance takes a beating.


Cheers,
pdma.

Last edited by pdma : 1st November 2014 at 23:09.
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Old 1st November 2014, 23:03   #65
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

Guys, is simply complaining here in this thread enough? Should we do something like mailing this to Honda India and expressing our concerns? Has anybody already done it?

They have got to know that Indian customers are not fools to not notice the declining quality of their cars.
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Old 1st November 2014, 23:15   #66
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Default Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post
Today, 7 months later, the *ONLY* reason to stick with the City is the engine. Period.
Thanks a lot, my friend. My post might have initiated the thread, but posts like your's add substance. I hope all the issues get sorted and you start to like the "Empress" once again.

Most people would be surprised with your comment above. The iDTEC was supposed to be the weak-link in the new City as per the initial reviews. But surprisingly - it's the Diesel engine that has been reliable and has delivered on the promised mileage as well. It might be high on NVH, but as of now- that seems to be the only negative for this diesel.

Note- As mentioned earlier, there are no issues of hydrostatic lock reported for the City on the forum. It's only reported for the Amaze. So I'm not going there.

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 1st November 2014 at 23:17.
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Old 1st November 2014, 23:49   #67
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Thanks a lot, my friend. My post might have initiated the thread, but posts like your's add substance. I hope all the issues get sorted and you start to like the "Empress" once again
Hi. This is an excellent thread, crazy_driver. You can add one more problem to the list - got my new city 4 days back with one of the ORVMs having severe distortion in the mirror. Don't know how Ring Road Honda as well as I missed it during the PDI. Anyhow they were very prompt in replacing it immediately on pointing it out today.
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Old 2nd November 2014, 09:36   #68
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

Oh dear!

Seems like Hondas have lost their resale too.

http://newdelhi.olx.in/honda-city-sv...-iid-738160170
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Old 2nd November 2014, 09:59   #69
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

CrazyDriver this is the truth about Honda & Toyota , both these Japanese car manufacturers pass off downgraded, lower engineered cars compared to their cars manufactured abroad. The fact is Honda is taking its Indian customers for a merry ride to the bank, pilling up their profits by offering as clearly proved by you products not up to international standards in India. Its actually a clear case of cheating by Honda & Toyota.....Amaze, Mobilio, Etios twins!!!
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Old 2nd November 2014, 11:10   #70
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tejas08 View Post

TVs, Washing Machines, Bikes (Kinetic Honda is a perfect example), Mobiles and now cars. Look at anything over the course of 15 years and tell me if there is luxury product whose quality has gone up.

Manufacturers today are looking at manufacturing goods considering that people will not be using them the way they used to a couple of decades back. They don't expect that a person will drive his car for over 5-6 years max.
Tejas, I see where you are coming from. However, I disagree to an extent and would like to share my thoughts.

The reason that manufacturers are reducing the quality of goods is two fold:
  1. as a society, we have stopped cherishing the things we own. No longer are watches passed on from father to son, no longer is furniture bought home with a thought of built to last, no longer are TVs bought with the wish that it lasts for 25 years. Instead we want to feel good and buy new stuff every year, every month, almost every day, giving excuses and convincing ourselves and others that technology has changed, what you have is not as good as what is available, or that your status in life has changed, and everything you own should announce that status. We are turning in to a culture of shopoholics, alas!
  2. There is huge quarterly pressure from the stock markets; manufacturers have to answer their share holders. For the sake of examples, how will their quarterly cash registers keep ringing if people start using their phones for 5-7 years, of if people stop buying TVs every 5 years. Ironically, the same shareholders who are investors in the company, baring a few big guys, are also consumers like you and me. There is a huge ironic difference in what the common man wants as an investor and as a consumer. In my opinion quality will keep falling till we do not stop this (insane, IMO) demand on year on year quarterly growth!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddy View Post

My gut feel is, and I do not have the data to corroborate this, that this may not be happening only to Honda and might be an industry wide trend. Reading the various ownership threads I get a feeling that even the mighty Maruti and Hyundai are going the same way.
Agree, same is my gut feeling. Its the price pressure that competitors feel, with implications on market share, and quarterly earnings. Although I have feeling that the slope of the curves for Honda may be slightly higher than some others, possibly because they started rather high on the graph.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tejas08 View Post
With more and more automation in production industries and less number of people how would you expect better quality.
I do not agree here. Machines are as capable as humans, if not more so, as they are programmed and executed to get a particular job done. The issue we have here is the quality of the components that humans feed them to assemble a particular product. It is abundantly clear that this quality is going down, and so is the quality control which is required to ensure that there are minimal errors that go unaddressed through the system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tejas08 View Post
So lets give them the features they want right now and make them happy. That is the attitude of the Manufacturers and the Buyers right now.
Agree, we as Indians value fancy gadgets which we may use once in a month than safety and reliability that we will use every second we are in our cars. Its not just one person, but the whole family misses their safety and security as far more important an issue as compared to some fancy show off. Its a reflection of our culture which does not take safety as the most important aspect of any product or idea.

Last edited by PVPal : 2nd November 2014 at 11:18.
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Old 2nd November 2014, 11:55   #71
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

Thanks C_D for this amazing compilation! Was good to note that I am not the only one suffering from certain issues in this new car. My problem is with the rattling noises and my solution to that is keeping the audio slightly louder than usual!

What keeps me going without complaints is when I press the throttle - that just gets the smile back on the face! Thankfully Honda didn't compromise on the (petrol) engine front and that is not something which I can say in case of the Ciaz.
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Old 2nd November 2014, 13:48   #72
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

Great thread CrazyDriver !!

A really detailed and interesting analysis. Its surprising how Honda has skimped on quality with its latest products. All these problems faced by the owners are definitely a big question mark on the reliability factor of the H logo.

We pre-booked the 4th Gen City i-DTEC without even seeing the car, totally trusting Honda reliability. One test drive, and we confirmed our booking. Since then the car has done over 13000 kms so far and trust me, I have not yet faced a single problem mentioned by the owners. The only annoying thing my family faces with the City is the irritating diesel clatter and the road/tyre noise that creeps in as speeds build up.

But all these problems cropping up has made me worried as a owner. Its surprising how a lot of car makers skimp on decent levels of quality and then get back to recalling their products in huge numbers.

The City is such a reputed brand in India. Honda please don't dilute it !!
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Old 2nd November 2014, 13:54   #73
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Thanks for quoting me crazy driver. A very good compilation.
Regarding the tyres , I did change my Bridgestone to michelins 3st after 2000km. At first I didn't notice any difference, but later the cars ride quality improved dramatically. All the hardness and harshness of the bridgestones gone. So my main complaint regarding ride quality has been taken care of.

Now coming to the other major problem I had was the left passenger door wouldn't shut easily. I was unhappy with the service guys attitude and was perplexed when he explained that it's because of cabin air pressure. Anyways second service too they neglected but the feedback given by me prompted them to send a mechanic to my place. The problem hasnt gone completely but it's much better now.
The gear shifting has been taken care of too. But I noticed it's sensitive to the change in driver and shifting gets difficult.
Overall I am pretty satisfied now, because I did compare with other cars in the 10 to 11 lakh budget and I am happy with my choice.
This is a person coming from a polo, and I had huge rattling problems with that car.The service was pathetic too with the exception of vw Pune. Sold it off because of brake issues. In India and our roads all cars definitely going to rattle.
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Old 2nd November 2014, 14:02   #74
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

Kudos to CD for coming up with this compilation of experiences of various City owners including myself.

However, I see that this thread is turing into a forum for bashing Honda and the way businesses now work, which is kind of defeating its very purpose.

If we analyse the spreadsheets CD has meticulously complied, most of the issues reported are related to dashboard rattles and overall squeaks. Other issues are occasional.

If I compare my 2012 model Jazz and my new iDTEC, the basic difference is in execution. Jazz was a product engineered to perfection and built to exacting standards. It was expensive but you drive it and you know where the money has been spent. 55k km of abuse and not a nut loose, not a squeak anywhere, heck, it has never even required alignment till date. The car is as good today as it was on Day 1.

With the City, it may be a lot more spacious and comfortable and have way more equipment but I cant shake off this overall feeling of lightness, dare I say fragility. You just know that somewhere, corners have been cut with this car. Whether it is in engineering or production or QC, I cant say. But its not a reassuring feeling, especially when my other Honda feels, well, perfect. Overall build quality has definitely been compromised.

Is my City performing well? Hell yes. Has it given me any trouble? Nothing really, apart from the rattles. Which are anyway drowned by the music system. So, in a sense I may be nitpicking. But I believe I deserve to nitpick after spending 1200 grands. Especially when I know what good products this company can come up with if it wants to.

But if you loose some, you also win some. The other day, I returned from Haridwar. I got an over all 27.2kmpl. So, its good until it lasts. Lets just hope it lasts as long as it should, as long as a Honda should.

Last edited by Shreyans_Jain : 2nd November 2014 at 14:03.
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Old 2nd November 2014, 14:04   #75
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Also I feel we could use this thread to solve or find solutions to tackle the niggles better.
What helped was
1. Stock headlights changed to Philips xtreme vision .The low beam has improved dramatically but the high beam is still pathetic. I had spare projectors with me but don't feel the need to install them now.
2. The tyre upgrade to primacy 3st has changed the ride and handling characteristics of the car.
These are the two must have upgrades that will improve the car according to me.
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