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Old 4th November 2014, 15:01   #121
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

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Originally Posted by trinity0114 View Post
And they've always been milking their customers, the 3rd gen city didnt even have alloy wheels & many other features
Which is why I used to love them. The last gen City didn't offer alloys, but had 2 airbags and ABS starting from the cheapest CE (corporate edition) version.

In the current gen they took a step backwards by removing an airbag from the base two versions, and offering fancy gadgets instead.

City traditionally was not about funky features and gadgets. They were not loaded to the brim but had only adequate features. And whatever was offered used to work well. Now see what they have done to it? They filled it with all those funky features and compromised on quality.

Honda, can we have the old City back, please?
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Old 4th November 2014, 15:26   #122
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

Forget the 4th gen, I can feel a perceptible difference in quality in my 2011 3rd gen city compared to that of my in laws which is an year older(same model). To me it has always felt slightly better put together. It seems things have gone further downhill.

I happened to sit in the 4th Gen one few days back and could immediately realize a further drop in the overall quality. An hour long drive in the passenger seat only reaffirmed my initial impression. I wish I could articulate this better, but anyone who has driven a single car extensively can understand how even subtle changes get noticed subconsciously.

Have to agree with what is mentioned in a few posts that its inconceivable that the car is being sold at a 10L price point even after 10 years. There has to be a compromise somewhere.

Also, the constant price revisions of vehicles with stellar reliability like the Innova and Fortuner can also be seen in this context, and not just pure greed on Toyota's part.

On a lighter note, look at the irony: Tata's Zest has had no major niggles reported till date, and City is quite the opposite. Who would have thought!
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Old 4th November 2014, 15:28   #123
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

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Originally Posted by subratasenn View Post
If no one is bothered about the "car", why would Honda care?

But again, I feel sad. Even if we are not valued, why would not Honda value themselves?
Sorry, but how can this even be an argument for supplying poor quality. That's like Honda saying "These people know nothing about the cars, so let's sell them anything". It's like selling a dead bird (Dumb and Dumber LOL!) to a blind kid.

I think that's what this thread is about i.e. A highly acclaimed (we're not talking Force Motors here) manufacturer short changing people of their hard earned money and supplying poor quality. Yes at some point in time the market will realize and demand better quality. But till then isn't it the moral/ethical responsibility of the manufacturer?

We know what Honda is capable (quality) of. But they're just not doing it. Maybe (like mentioned by some here) they've got too confident thinking that people don't have many options in the segment and will flock their showrooms (which is happening) for the extra back seat space they've created.

Last edited by kaushal21fb : 4th November 2014 at 15:30.
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Old 4th November 2014, 17:27   #124
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

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Originally Posted by avisidhu View Post
Forget the 4th gen, I can feel a perceptible difference in quality in my 2011 3rd gen city compared to that of my in laws which is an year older(same model). To me it has always felt slightly better put together.

I happened to sit in the 4th Gen one few days back and could immediately realize a further drop in the overall quality. An hour long drive in the passenger seat only reaffirmed my initial impression.
Agree with your view, even I felt my 2010 model is much better put together than the current gen. Like you say, the difference in quality is very apparent to someone who has spent time with their earlier cars. When I changed from the 2005 model to the 2010 one, there was no hesitation as it was in every way a better car.
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Old 4th November 2014, 18:18   #125
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

@CrAzY dRiVeR - Hats off to you for such a tremendous effort you carried out, all for the sake of fellow BHPians and visitors of Team BHP. An honest and heartfelt thank-you!

@My fellow BHPians:
The next gen Jazz is around the corner. Honda did state that this is expected in first quarter of 2015.

Usually, when a car is near launch, it is road tested by the company before it is sent to ARAI for certification and approval (e.g. Hyundai Verna seen a few weeks back, posted on a different thread). This happens typically anywhere between 4 to 8 months, sometimes even upto a year, before official launch.

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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
As GTO mentioned in the official review, it is safe to assume that the car was not tested on public roads in India.
Has anyone seen / reported of Jazz test cars being tested in India? Except for the below link, no further test car was spotted or reported. Even the below link doesn't confirm that the car in question is for testing purposes.
http://www.team-bhp.com/news/new-hon...-spotted-india

Please remember, that unlike the previous Jazz, where many parts were imported, the next gen is supposedly has many local parts. So, the test vehicles clicked in Thailand, Japan and USA cannot be considered apt as "tested for India".

Please also remember that the Jazz is based on the City's platform. Which translates that many panels (interior and exterior) will be shared with the City.

In all possibilities, I don't expect Honda to repeat the same mistake of overpricing the next gen Jazz. Which, when looked at in a different way, is that one can expect a lot more of Jazz cars on the road than the previous gen, meaning the current gen City's problems might be carried over to the Jazz, leading to even more number of unsatisfied customers.

I wonder if the management at Honda are so blind to overlook all of this put together, or is it just too convenient for them to simply keep earning off on the "Honda brand" factor.
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Old 4th November 2014, 20:21   #126
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
On a related note, must appreciate Hyundai. Even their 5 lakh rupee Grand i10 seems to be perfectly put together. This is one company that doesn't miss the woods for the trees.
True but I get the feeling they are cutting corners elsewhere, in areas which are not apparent to the customer. Case in point, the Elantra does not have a stabilizer bar, which others in the segment like the Corolla do. The Indian i10 does terribly in safety ratings and body-shell integrity, which is not true for the same car sold elsewhere at a higher cost.
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Old 4th November 2014, 22:00   #127
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Smile re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

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Originally Posted by StarScream View Post
True but I get the feeling they are cutting corners elsewhere, in areas which are not apparent to the customer. Case in point, the Elantra does not have a stabilizer bar, which others in the segment like the Corolla do. The Indian i10 does terribly in safety ratings and body-shell integrity, which is not true for the same car sold elsewhere at a higher cost.
+1 to that. Hyundai knows where we Indians give priority. It's not durability or sensible/practical design. It's more about how much of beige/chrome is used and how much of funky features are added. Durability, reliability and ergonomics takes a back seat in our market. And there's no point blaming manufacturers for that when this is what the market demands. :-)

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Originally Posted by civic-sense View Post
City traditionally was not about funky features and gadgets. They were not loaded to the brim but had only adequate features. And whatever was offered used to work well. Now see what they have done to it? They filled it with all those funky features and compromised on quality..
It seems Honda tried to emulate Hyundai a bit here. :-)

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Originally Posted by tejas08 View Post

These are all recent threads (Some being just over a year old). Its Audis, BMWs, VWs

It took me 5 mins to find these forums from Team-BHP. I did search for Honda Car Problems too. But apart from this thread really all the threads are at least 8-10 years old or the cars are that old.

Just to give you an example, the Drive belt grinding noise. I drove my City with that Grinding sound for over 2000 Kms. Except the irritation of the grinding noise (Which is because I know of it through the forums, a majority of the people won't even know), it actually did not affect me in any other way.

Got the Drive belt changed, 500+ Kms driven and, touch-wood, no grinding sound yet.

I know some of the members might think that I am siding Honda since I own one, but really the numbers and the gravity of the problems speak for itself.
Completely agree with you here. I've many friends who own Honda and these German cars. Honda is a class apart for long term reliability. Even the issues mentioned for the latest city, I just consider them as initial teething issues with a new design.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
There was a member RavenAvi who posted earlier. He has his seperate ownership report as well on the 4th generation City which is very well documented. Can you please go through his post and explain it to him why its not bad?

Don't we deserve better quality?

Agree with you that the petrol motor has always been their strength. Can you believe the 11 people who complained of alternator belt grinding noise and clutch replacements where iVTEC owners? The iDTEC has been good till now except for the noise levels.
.
1. There can be lemons with any manufacturer. We have to take a holistic view and I've only used the data that you have posted.
2. I did say 2 complaints per user is not great. But it's not bad either doesn't infer in any way that we don't deserve better. Just meant to say that it's a new design. Give it a teething period. Let Honda address any design issues. Re-analyze after a year and see how it goes. I've myself bought an Etios diesel in the first month of its release. There were a couple of bugs which Toyota addressed and fixed by using a newly designed part within 1 year. Right now, the experience is flawless and I plan to keep this car for at least 10 to 15 years. So, all I'm saying is to give them a chance in the first year of a new design.
3. If 11 users faced it, it should be a design flaw. I hope, Honda takes care of it soon.

Last edited by moralfibre : 5th November 2014 at 09:44. Reason: Trimming quoted post.
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Old 4th November 2014, 22:03   #128
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

Nice thread. Somehow I like the previous gen City (2008 onwards) over the present. Only today evening I saw not one but three brand new City's lined up at temple for "blessing". In my town they are selling like hot cakes. Even earlier, petrol was selling in good numbers and now diesel variant gave the sales number a quantum jump. General populace hold brand Honda in very high esteem. I wonder if any of that would change. We teambhpians are in extreme minority. Otherwise, Fiat cars (going by their popularity on forums) would have been chart-toppers. But nice effort nevertheless CD!
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Old 4th November 2014, 23:55   #129
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

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Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
We teambhpians are in extreme minority. Otherwise, Fiat cars (going by their popularity on forums) would have been chart-toppers. But nice effort nevertheless CD!
Fiats are a minority even among team-bhpians.

On a serious note, it's a shame that Japanese manufacturers have come to this. I would like to believe significant part of the blame is on the Indian management who claim to know the market better than the Japanese suits, and the Japanese suits must have booked their tickets back to Tokyo in a huff and frown, because Japanese culture places significant value on life and quality.

Now how it affects the sales of the City (and Ciaz, Verna) is going to be worth watching.
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Old 5th November 2014, 01:01   #130
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Hey Reppy, what's your feedback on the newly replaced primacy 3st. The suspension on this city is so hard , it transmits the harshness of uneven roads into the cabin. Also combined with the oem tyre every pebble on the road is made aware of. This could be the cause of unwanted rattles too because the ride gets so bone jarring. Thanks to michelins, they provide an air cushion of comfort. Reppy also do play around with the psi. For me 30&28 are perfect as I drive mainly in the city and maximum 2 occupants.
There were times I wished I had opted for the duster because of its awesome suspension and road manners, then I look at the interiors which are dated and the dashboard that starts to rattle in a months time, my city is any day better. No doubt we r expecting the best from Honda, but then the other manufacturers aren't doing any better. Honda is still dynamically very sound and still gives you that feel good factor every time you start the ignition.
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Old 5th November 2014, 10:03   #131
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

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Originally Posted by adimicra View Post
.
I think a better strategy for Honda is to charge a slight premium but still maintain the quality and reliability expected from them..

One question to ponder is - if Hyundai/Maruti can maintain good quality and reliability levels at similar price, why can't Honda?
Adimicra, You make a good point in case. My two paisa -Maruti clearly maintains the price-quality balance due to its sheer volumes and the fact that a lot of its fixed assets must be fully depreciated financially speaking. They make their profits from spares and after sales service and use the tight purchase prices to fill volumes. It is a sensible strategy. In Hyudai's case they have clearly decided to book losses for a while till volumes and market share get to the break even point. Again a sound long term strategy given that in volumes India is 8th largest market and could in 10 years be the 3rd or 4th largest (in numbers if not $). Honda would be well advised to go the Hyundai way with just the slightest premium pricing on their low and mid tier products.
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Old 5th November 2014, 11:47   #132
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post

Toyota did the same with the Liva & Etios and they bombed. The City has the market's blind faith in it, Honda should preserve its reputation carefully.

On a related note, must appreciate Hyundai. Even their 5 lakh rupee Grand i10 seems to be perfectly put together. This is one company that doesn't miss the woods for the trees.
Well, Liva and Etios cannot be put in the same basket. Interior quality, yes. You may find them unattractive and rather plain. But they have proved to be as reliable as other Toyota cars. I own a Liva, and there are many owners on tbhp whose experiences with Liva and Etios are pretty good as regards reliability even on bad and difficult roads.
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Old 5th November 2014, 12:32   #133
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

I guess the simple issue here with Honda is - too much demand and too less investment in Quality control processes and Customer service infrastructure / attitude. Honda knows that they have a solid reputation to go by, which will last them at least another 5 years or so even when they continue to goof up like this. I mean some of the issues are really atrocious, like paint peeling off, I cant even imagine that on my 10 year old Santro. Yes, I agree electronics can get messed up, few design flaws can be there (like positioning of the bluetooth mic), but paint peeling off and huge panel gaps are simply unbelievable and may I say, criminal negligence. Wow! My heart felt sympathies to people who invested their hard earned money only to end up with experiences like these. Really that's no way for anyone to be treated.

Our family once owned a 2nd gen Honda city AT. I briefly drove that car for a period of around one year. That is my fondest memory of Honda. I mean, I can purchase that car brand new any day. Absolutely no noise, rattle or any other, truly planted to the ground at high speeds, and offered brilliant driving experience. Though I haven't tried the new City, going by fellow members' experience, I am not sure I even want to.

Its quite true that all manufacturers treat the Indian market as second grade. Most products that are sold in India, some premium brands included, shall surely fail road worthiness test in most other markets. And those that muster enough to sell identical models in India and developed markets, would get eaten up by the lawsuits should they offer buyers in developed countries same experience as they dish out to consumers in India. Really, its a sad story. Why after paying nearly the same price we get inferior products. Why are there product recalls in other markets and not here. Team bhp is full of horror stories about horrible and horrendous experiences, some even life threatening situations, yet there are no lessons learnt.
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Old 5th November 2014, 13:24   #134
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

Man, this is a scary thread. I own a 2009, Gen-3 City - and i just love the car.

It still feels fresh, had absolutely no niggles - only issue i ever took it to service was rat chewing some cables - not really Honda's fault. The service costs are cheaper (yearly) than my i10, which is amazing.

Based on the feedback here, looks like that bullet proof reliability is taking a hit with newer versions. That's very sad. I hope Honda recognizes it and takes measures to avoid a Toyota like PR disaster that happened in 2009-10.

Last edited by SkyWalker : 5th November 2014 at 13:29.
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Old 5th November 2014, 15:14   #135
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Default re: Honda City (4th gen) niggles: A compilation. Are Honda cars niggle-free anymore?

One more question to all, now that we are discussing the City - slightly off topic ...

What is the service interval of a Honda City (mine's the 3rd generation, mfd date 2013) I have contacted Honda and they advise that the same is 3 months. My dealership keeps calling me for servicing every 3 months but I am not convinced the car needs servicing. I am afraid they may push back on warranty claims in case I do not service the car as per the 3 month interval. Anyone with a similar experience - please do help.

MODS -I know there was a separate thread n this but that was for Honda cars overall. Hence re-posting in this specific thread for the City.
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