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Old 4th November 2014, 14:45   #136
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Default Re: How few more days of silence will save Maruti and the rest!!

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Originally Posted by sudev View Post
Easy to rant but when it comes to buying and parting with your money decision most (almost all) mango men would rather not pay. Safety consciousness is last thing in our priority.

While I am all for the highest degree of safety affordable it has to keep pace with what the customers willingness to pay. Manufacturers would be held guilty if they did not offer safety features at all. Clearly they do but customers - not all - do not buy them.

We can rant only because the crash test failures but look at this perspective. I'd rather a family in such a car than riding a quadruple on a motorcycle with one baby on tank and the other in the arms of mother riding pillion!! On expressway noless
And what about the buyer who is willing to pay and still doesn't get the kind of security he thinks he is getting owing to the structure itself being compromised?
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Old 4th November 2014, 14:46   #137
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Default Re: How few more days of silence will save Maruti and the rest!!

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Originally Posted by TheLizardKing View Post
Forcing? Do you mean to say that the government of India has forced MS not to offer airbags and ABS as an option on the L and V variants? This is totally breaking news. It changes everything! MS is absolved of all blame!

[/b]
I would second SB's point - by forcing he might have meant the indirect market force.

Do you think all the European and Japanese manufacturers suddenly woke up one day to the perils of cars without ABS and Airbags and started playing the good Samaritan? It was actually a combination of legislation and public pressure (also a few organisations working towards vehicle safety). If there were no legislative or market pressure, no manufacturer would offer these safety systems, either here or the developed nations
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Old 4th November 2014, 14:48   #138
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by raju2512 View Post
Many of the posts here blame the customers for choosing the lower end models, thus compromising their own safety for saving few thousand rupees. I beg to differ. The average car buyer is not as informed as you assume him to be.
Although there are always both kind of people but please do not paint such a darling image of the average car buyer. Gone are the days when the average car buyer was an ignorant, easy to fool customer. More and more people these days check online and TV reviews, check multiple cars and only then make a purchase.

But as I mentioned before it is the mentality that has to change. Here is a post from another ongoing thread where a BHPian (no hard feelings for you sir) is willing to choose a tin box without any safety whatsoever citing the following reason:

Quote:
You are right, however, this would be a secondary car for just 10 kms a day of 10 kmph bumper to bumper traffic and therefore cost and mileage are the criteria.
Imagine what people outside automotive forums choose then!!
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Old 4th November 2014, 14:57   #139
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Default Re: How few more days of silence will save Maruti and the rest!!

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Originally Posted by sudev View Post
Easy to rant but when it comes to buying and parting with your money decision most (almost all) mango men would rather not pay. Safety consciousness is last thing in our priority.

Manufacturers would be held guilty if they did not offer safety features at all. Clearly they do but customers - not all - do not buy them.
OK, but what about those who are willing to pay for a Maruti Swift Zxi, only to find that Maruti has compromised on the basic structure of the car sold in India compared with what is sold in Europe, and the car with airbags etc is still structurally unstable and unsafe? Same applies for cars like i10 that are sold with airbags.

What excuse can be made on behalf of the manufacturer for that?
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Old 4th November 2014, 15:05   #140
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Default Re: How few more days of silence will save Maruti and the rest!!

I could not understand the point of this RANT.
You as a customer has a choice to buy Zero rating car without Airbags, or the same Swift with Airbags and ABD with higher rating.

Why does Maruti even sell a car like this here?
Well, every manufacturer everywhere in the world sells a car like this unless the govt tells them not to.

Its the job of the govt to make safety features mandatory, Swift low end variant(and for that matter every car variant without airbags), will simply go away


Its very simple.

Second point Zxi.
Do you have a conclusive test result which shows that swift manufactured in India with Airbags is worse than the car sold in Europe?
If so, then please present it.
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Old 4th November 2014, 15:07   #141
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

Henceforth i wish we should get:

1 Minimum 2 airbags.
2 ABS.
3 All mirrors. No excuse here like only top model will get both side ORVM. (Mainly in budget cars)
4 Sufficient broad tires, no way we should allow under tired cars. (read thin tires)
5 No thin sheet metal. Lets hope for this.

Even if they do all above, i don't think prices will go up by more than 10%. But it will make sure that end user has at least some assurance on safety.

Personally i feel, if Maruti should take initiative & start doing this, all will follow. In fact all will have to follow it else they will go down in terms of sales. Maruti is market leader & they should set example by doing such things in the market. Lets hope Maruti will listen.

Last edited by aniketi : 4th November 2014 at 15:08.
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Old 4th November 2014, 15:08   #142
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Default Re: How few more days of silence will save Maruti and the rest!!

I am happy that today we are doing the exact objective I joined this forum with!

We as aware enthusiasts need to set the ball rolling and looking at discussions on multiple threads, every BHPian is speaking of safety!

Let us discuss, argue, fight and come up with solutions which are practical in India and then create awareness about the same in other forums / social groups wherever we can as well.

I hope a time comes when a VXI is fitted with Airbags first and then the Music system
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Old 4th November 2014, 15:10   #143
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

Isn't it that "If the manufacturing stops, buying can too" ? Airbags and ABS should be mandatory across all the variants. I respect VW for having these right from the basic model. Now if the Manufacturers are not willing to do it proactively and passing on the blame to people saying there is no demand for such safety features, Govt should step in and make it mandatory.

Govt's plan of introducing such rating is good 3-4 years from now, till then there would be thousands of such unsafe cars on road which also would be sold off in used market further increasing their presence on road.

Also its not only about the airbags and ABS, we should at least get a safe cabin space which can withstand and save (Minimize injuries) occupants from such impacts.

If people dont have a choice of skipping such safety features, certainly they would either buy the car or else come down a level and settle for a car from lower segment but with basic safety features.

If you cannot educate people why they should get a car with such features, simply minimize their choice and make such things mandatory.

Last edited by neoonwheels : 4th November 2014 at 15:11.
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Old 4th November 2014, 15:36   #144
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Default Re: How few more days of silence will save Maruti and the rest!!

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Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
And what about the buyer who is willing to pay and still doesn't get the kind of security he thinks he is getting owing to the structure itself being compromised?
Example please.

My answer if Maruti, or others, do not offer what your safety parameters are shop else where till Maruti learns.

AFAIK there is no compulsion to meet crash test standard "X: before cars can be sold is most of the countries. It is consumer awareness societies that test and share data for consumers to make informed decision. I could be wrong and would like inputs.

Yes there are minimum equipment standards that are drawn up by most of the countries regarding safety and emissions etc.

Asides - How many occupants disregard available and existing active/passive safety devices in our vehicles?
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Old 4th November 2014, 15:39   #145
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Default Re: How few more days of silence will save Maruti and the rest!!

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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
Simply put, value of human life is non existent in our country and people don't even follow basic principles of "self preservation".
+1.
"Self-preservation" is one of the key points.
Inspite of seat belts being a mandatory feature on all variants since a long time, people still do not buckle-up. I would even say that many people actually take pride in not wearing a seat belt (or a helmet in case of 2 wheelers) and give absurd reasons.
When we, as a society, are ourselves not concerned about our own safety, why would any body else (govt or manufacturers) care?
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Old 4th November 2014, 15:48   #146
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Default Re: How few more days of silence will save Maruti and the rest!!

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
I could not understand the point of this RANT.
You as a customer has a choice to buy Zero rating car without Airbags, or the same Swift with Airbags and ABD with higher rating.
This Laissez-faire economy in automobiles exist because industry lobbies presents the argument that auto-mobiles will become unaffordable if safety ratings are enforced.
Currently the consumer protection movement and laws are not strong enough which can award punitive damages for deaths caused , so on part of manufacturers investment in lobbying to prevent stricter laws is more rewarding.

So the point of rant is that Forums like these and social media need to create noise so that government of the day enforce stricter safety norms.

Regulations comes in to picture because in no country each citizen can decide on it's own what is good for him and what is common good and how common good should be balanced with individual benefit.

As history may tell us this argument of consumer choice is fallacious.

Till early 90s seat belts were not mandatory and cars were shipped without retractable seat belts one fine day regulation came and cost of seat belts were absorbed easily by industry

Similarly old lamberrata and Bajaj ( Vespa before it) scooters came without turn indicators . When Rajeev Gandhi government made turn indicators mandatory same argument of costs were played however eventually industry settled down.

Let's take another industry as example few years back firecrackers were made using child labour in Sivakasi and same arguments of unless the whole ecosystem changes the industry will die and loose out to Chinese were played by industry lobby but eventually today you get Diwali crackers with clear labels no child labour employed from reputed brands.

Same applies to Guthka / Pan Masala industry for years they tried to dodge the oral cancer warnings on packets hiding behind consumer choice argument.

Last edited by amitk26 : 4th November 2014 at 16:02.
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Old 4th November 2014, 15:51   #147
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

May be I am going OT here.

Why it took so long to test India's top selling hatch? While Figo, Polo, i10 were tested; why it didn't include Swift?
Sorry but I don't know how cars are selected for testing. I mean still why didn't they test Liva, Punto, Micra, Grand i10 etc

Can we draw a farfetched conclusion that some other OEMs are sponsoring these results, rather timing of disclosing the results. Just like the paid news? As the launch of new Swift is around the corner.

P.S. No doubt Maruti deserves all the bashing and I do support OEM's responsibility towards car buyer's safety.

Last edited by StepUP! : 4th November 2014 at 15:53.
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Old 4th November 2014, 15:54   #148
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Default Re: How few more days of silence will save Maruti and the rest!!

I'd say they're safe for as long as we continue to buy unsafe cars. The 'mango man' is hardly aware of terms like ABS or Airbags and then there are some others who seem to think they don't need all that since they're 'safe' drivers.

To add this ignorance, we have SA's who say ABS is 'Anti-braking system' and mislead the public by saying those are only required for those who drive very fast and not needed for 'our' conditions. When infact we need it as much as any other car country. This only makes them believe these are unnecessary and not worth spending the additional money on.

While the number of people who check auto magazines and online reviews/forums before purchasing a car is more than before, they still are a minority if one were to take the entire car buying population into account.

I feel lack of awareness is as much a factor as affordability is in our market.

Last edited by shashank.nk : 4th November 2014 at 15:55.
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Old 4th November 2014, 15:59   #149
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

I see that there is mention of the Latin American Swift with 2 airbags (that's exported from India) scoring 3* on the test, but I'm not able to get that report. Can someone provide a link to that report (or video), please?

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Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
Datsun Go's state after the crash is the worst ever compared to all Indian cars thats been tested, even Alto fared better.
Yes, the Go fared disastrously! So disastrous that even G-NCAP noted in its report that adding airbags to this Datsun would be a waste, as the structural integrity was found to be so weak. The Go is based on the same platform as the Nissan Micra (and Renault Pulse) whose European version scored 4* on the Euro-NCAP, but it's obvious that the level of cost-cutting done is extreme on the Go. Nissan tacitly accepted the brutal cost-cutting done on the Go by refusing to put a Nissan badge on it. Now we know why!

To make matters even worse, they've used bench-like front seats which might encourage clueless people to let a child sit there!

The Swift was also rated to have an unstable cabin, but it's not as bad as the Go, and G-NCAP noted that adding airbags would certainly improve crash worthiness in its case.

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Dear NDTV, Please do the following cars also
Amaze, Mobilio, Ciaz, i20 Elite, Grand i10, Sunny, Micra, Duster, Ecosport
I perfectly understand the reason for your request, but we already know the results (in terms of stars) don't we? G-NCAP deliberately tests the base variants (and understandably & rightfully so), and all of them (except one) would score a big fat zero. Only the structural integrity of the cabin would be known after the test, but they would in all likelihood fail the test by scoring a zero.

The only exception would be the Sunny, as it comes with a driver airbag (& ABS) as standard. A similarly equipped Nissan Sunny for South East Asian markets scored 4-stars on the ASEAN NCAP, but we don't know whether Nissan India have (or haven't) compromised on the structural members or the materials used in them for India.

The Micra would also fail the test if the Micra Active base variant is tested, as it does not have an airbag. The facelifted Micra should fare far better as even the base variant comes with a standard driver airbag.

Last edited by RSR : 4th November 2014 at 16:13.
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Old 4th November 2014, 16:06   #150
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Default Re: How few more days of silence will save Maruti and the rest!!

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Originally Posted by sudev View Post
Example please.

My answer if Maruti, or others, do not offer what your safety parameters are shop else where till Maruti learns.

AFAIK there is no compulsion to meet crash test standard "X: before cars can be sold is most of the countries. It is consumer awareness societies that test and share data for consumers to make informed decision. I could be wrong and would like inputs.

Yes there are minimum equipment standards that are drawn up by most of the countries regarding safety and emissions etc.

Asides - How many occupants disregard available and existing active/passive safety devices in our vehicles?
What about an informed buyer who ends up buying the Swift Z variant thinking his Swift and the one sold in Europe is built the same, only to realize that Maruti has made compromises with the structure of the car sold here?
The Indian made Swift gets 3 stars with ABS and Air Bags on board while the same car gets a 5 star rating in Europe. Agreed that the European car comes with more active safety devices than the Indian one and hence the higher rating but nothing can take away from the fact that during the test they found the structural integrity to be unstable. The same observation was not made for the european car.
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