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Old 4th November 2014, 16:07   #151
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Default Re: How few more days of silence will save Maruti and the rest!!

I have heard of good number of incidents wherein people have lost life in vehicle with airbag and also good number of incidents where barebones like Omni, Maruti 800 or Santro getting totaled in crash and people surviving with minimum injury. Now having said that, definitely vehicle safety is to be improved. But not “only vehicle safety” but most importantly road safety. We have single lane roads with pothole on a curve . At high speeds vehicles try to avoid the pothole and most of the time they will have a miraculous escape from oncoming traffic. So driving sense is to be first imbibed amongst all of us.

Say tomorrow government enforces all the vehicle manufacturers to add ABS and Airbag as standard fitment, there should also be a strict enforcement on seatbelts. I see good amount of people driving without seat belt in first place, which is basic safety feature which every manufacture provides. I have a non-airbag car but I have developed a good habit of wearing seatbelt every time I sit in car, even if it is 500meter or 1km trip. Obviously I am a laughing stock for most of my friends and relatives for wearing seatbelts even for short distance.

But I have seen lot of drivers in cars fitted with airbag not wearing seatbelt because they feel uncomfortable. What I have read here and many other places is that driving car with airbag without wearing seatbelt is equally or more dangerous than driving a car without airbag . So unless we overhaul Vehicle AND Road safety through awareness/ law enforcement, we will stick to buying non-airbag cars to save some bucks.

We cannot squarely blame manufacturers for lack of airbags or ABS. They are here to do business and good business grows only when they can sell what majority of people want. That is what exactly Maruti is doing.
Also people taking dig at only “Swift” and new entrant “Datsun”. Have a look at other cars which failed in the same crash test last year. Superb handling Ford Figo, Beige (so called premium) interior i10, das-auto VW Polo (which now has added airbags i read)
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Old 4th November 2014, 16:11   #152
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I disagree that the customers are to blame for this fiasco.

You cant say a corrupt politician isn't to blame because its the people who pay him bribes?!! Of course the people are at fault but there's a moral code is person is expected to follow by not accepting bribes!!

Are we ok to excuse car makers to make cars without indicators because most people don't use them.

I fully agree the Indian govt MUST catch up with global safety standards and rules must be in place.

But car maker have to take a big share of the blame as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Second point Zxi.
Do you have a conclusive test result which shows that swift manufactured in India with Airbags is worse than the car sold in Europe?
If so, then please present it.
One must be pretty gullible to think that Maruti uses a strengthened monocoque only for the Swift Zxi customers on a production line. Compare the weight of a similar Swift model in India and the UK, there's an 80 kg deficit!! Thats a lot of missing metal!! Especially considering the UK model doesn't have a full size spare wheel!! No there is no conclusive test, but it would also be a lie to claim 'the swift manufactured in India with Airbags is as safe as the car sold in Europe'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by recshenoy View Post
Have a look at other cars which failed in the same crash test last year. Superb handling Ford Figo, Beige (so called premium) interior i10, das-auto VW Polo (which now has added airbags i read)
Have a look Shenoy!!

The Figo, Polo, Vista etc......failed poorly, but the passenger cell did withstand the impact. Meaning if an airbag is fitted the cars become a lot more safer.

The shock with the swift and the go is that the cell collapsed making the shunt fatal for the passengers!! An airbag is pointless here!!

Last edited by Stratos : 4th November 2014 at 16:15.
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Old 4th November 2014, 16:13   #153
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

I watched the 42 min long discussion on NDTV regarding the crash test results. The secretary of G-NCAP mentions that Indian Swift can go from 0 stars to 3 stars with added airbags. Unfortunately, they don't explain why they still rated the body structure unstable, or how just adding airbags helps improve safety if the structure itself isn't strong enough to remain intact upon impact.
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Old 4th November 2014, 16:19   #154
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Default Re: How few more days of silence will save Maruti and the rest!!

No point in whining over this, one solution - safety legislation. Our ignorant government has to wake up here and whack the manufacturers to fall in line. We have been dreaming about mandatory crash testing for years. ABS/Airbags are still luxury features.

Safety is the last priority for policy makers and car buyers. Till that changes, we can continue to beat it out on the forum.
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Old 4th November 2014, 16:30   #155
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Default Re: How few more days of silence will save Maruti and the rest!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
The shock with the swift and the go is that the cell collapsed making the shunt fatal for the passengers!! An airbag is pointless here!!
I don't think that's the case. I watched a 42 min long discussion where the G-NCAP secretary/president mention adding airbags helps improve safety rating from 0 to 3 in case of the Indian Swift.

Hers' the link to the entire discussion:
http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/ndt...eo-mostpopular

Why they term the body structure 'unstable' is still unclear to me though.

Its the Datsun Go where addition of airbags is pointless

Last edited by shashank.nk : 4th November 2014 at 16:32.
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Old 4th November 2014, 16:32   #156
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Default Re: How few more days of silence will save Maruti and the rest!!

I think it is a mix of all factors, no regulations, unaware customers and lax attitude of govt.

Now, when we look at customer behaviour, it is shocking that people would rather save a few thousands than opt for safety equipment. Add to that our wonderful roads and road manners, it is a recipe for disaster. I tried to convince my friend to buy the variant with airbags and ABS when he got his Amaze (our office commute includes driving on NH8 in Gujarat - very good roads and the worst of road sense). Well, he laughed at me and dismissed it as unwanted. I am talking about a mech. Engineer working on structural analysis no less - so the mango man can be excused.
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Old 4th November 2014, 16:41   #157
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Default Re: How few more days of silence will save Maruti and the rest!!

Hey Why all this bashing only for the OEMs?? Who in this world doesn't like to make/save money? I'm sure if we were the CEO of the company 90% of us would have done the same what MS is doing.

If somebody is supposed to be blamed its our Motor Vehicle policies, nobody else. Its not by choice Airbag/ABS is std. in western countries, but its the Law over their.
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Old 4th November 2014, 16:44   #158
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Default Re: How few more days of silence will save Maruti and the rest!!

It's all upto the customer demand and govt regulations.

Government regulation:
This matters a lot. Else, we would still be driving cars with enignes which are decades old. (Will be giving out black smoke every time you press the throttle. )
Applying emission norms has made car makers introduce new engine. So, introduction of safety norms will make manufacturers stick to safer cars.

Customer demand: (and awareness)
As some one mentioned, how many out there know about ABS, airbag? Forget ABS and airbags, they don't even care to use seat belts. They are bothered about alloys, ICE, sticks, horns(loud ones) etc.

If customers demand ABS and airbags, Maruti will yeild.
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Old 4th November 2014, 16:56   #159
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Default Re: How few more days of silence will save Maruti and the rest!!

"Indians are more interested in low price, and do not bother about safety" is just a plain lame excuse given by the manufacturers.
Most of the cars offer ABS/Airbags only on their top variants which can be almost 40% costlier than the base variants.
If I need ABS/airbags, I am forced to pay for foglamps, 2-Din, powerwindows and rain sensors even if I don't need them.

Give us an option to select the features in a car (like they do in the west), then more and more people will choose safety options over the rain sensors.
If the governments in the West had not mandated safety features in cars, the situation would have been the same there also.

Last edited by jinojohnt : 4th November 2014 at 17:00.
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Old 4th November 2014, 17:00   #160
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSR View Post
I perfectly understand the reason for your request, but we already know the results (in terms of stars) don't we? G-NCAP deliberately tests the base variants (and understandably & rightfully so), and all of them (except one) would score a big fat zero. Only the structural integrity of the cabin would be known after the test, but they would in all likelihood fail the test by scoring a zero.
As you say we know what the score would be for any variant without airbags - Zero. But i would like to see the strength of the passenger compartment and how the shell crumples. For example both Swift and Go standard variants scored a big fat doughnut in the test but see how the passenger shell of the Go crumpled? How will the Go fare if it had two airbags? Will the occupants survive with airbags if the cabin itself is non existent? Thats why i want to see other cars being crash tested, to see how the cabin survives the impact.
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Old 4th November 2014, 17:10   #161
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

How the consumers perceptions have changed !. Long back , when the Maruti 800 was launched, it was thought as unsafe compared to the sturdy Amby and the Padmini

Maybe if somebody comes up with very graphic advertisements toting the need for safety features, the penny pinching consumer will start looking at it.

It is perhaps a psychological issue too when a consumer ignores something like airbags or ABS which they can't see or will help in a situation which might happen rarely and instead choose something like a fancy audio system, alloys which is used or seen all the time. Unfortunately people don't realise that that rare happenstance might result in most unfortunate situation.
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Old 4th November 2014, 17:13   #162
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarrySky View Post
I think the test specs are updated quite frequently. In Swift's case, the rating review in 2013 also seems to have resulted in 5-star rating (link)

Also from the above link: "The passenger compartment remained stable during the frontal impact and the dummy readings indicated good protection of the knees and femurs of both driver and passenger."
That's the Euro build LHD Swift not the Indian built. I own 2007 Swift which I still somehow feel is better built than the current one.
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Old 4th November 2014, 17:23   #163
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by asethi View Post
That's the Euro build LHD Swift not the Indian built. I own 2007 Swift which I still somehow feel is better built than the current one.
That's just perception IMO. I am quite convinced that any made in India Swift will do equally bad at NCAP facility, no matter when it was built. Not only Swift, all cars that are made and sold in India without the safety features will fail the test.

When I bought my car, I was not aware of the importance of safety features. But now I just cant replace my car of good condition for the want of them.
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Old 4th November 2014, 17:51   #164
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Default Re: How few more days of silence will save Maruti and the rest!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jinojohnt View Post
"Indians are more interested in low price, and do not bother about safety" is just a plain lame excuse given by the manufacturers.
I highly second the opinion above. My gripe is not that Maruti fooled customers by selling an unsafe car when everyone else does the same. Yes, everyone has unsafe cars in the entry-level segment but look at the cost that they sell them. And I'm always ready to pay 20K extra for the airbags, ABS minus all the fancy equipment you (Maruti) offer me. But, no such option is given.

My primary concern is Swift is Maruti's so-called "premium" hatchback going well over 6 lac and even 7 for the diesel version. Why rate it as premium when there it offers the same safety as any of its entry level models? Compare it to the i20 where it at least holds its structural integrity only then can be called a premium hatch.

So, basically these so-called premium cars are all as safe as a Nano. And if someone is on a shoe-string budget and cannot afford their Zxi versions, they'd be better off buying a Nano. (Sarcasm, but well intended)

Last edited by jagzrk : 4th November 2014 at 17:53. Reason: 20K for Safety but no such option.
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Old 4th November 2014, 17:53   #165
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Default Re: How few more days of silence will save Maruti and the rest!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jinojohnt
Give us an option to select the features in a car (like they do in the west), then more and more people will choose safety options over the rain sensors.
I don't think safety features are something we need to keep as optional nor something to be left to a customer's choice. Atleast front airbags and ABS need to be made mandatory for all trim levels, with the customer given the choice to choose other mundane stuff like alloys, remote/central locking etc.
That way, even the lowest trim will have the safety features by default for maybe 20K more than current price and if the customer wants other bling stuff, he can opt for it in higher trim levels.
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