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Old 4th November 2014, 18:09   #166
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by shashank.nk View Post
I watched the 42 min long discussion on NDTV regarding the crash test results. The secretary of G-NCAP mentions that Indian Swift can go from 0 stars to 3 stars with added airbags.
Thanks! So the test wasn't actually performed then? No wonder that the report is proving to be so elusive!

I guess the G-NCAP honcho must have mentioned the potential of the same Swift if it was equipped with two airbags (i.e. ZXi), based on his vast experience with crash testing and the humungous amounts of data obtained from many previous similar tests, no doubt.

So the Indian Swift does have the potential to fare rather decently (3* on G-NCAP), but has been let down badly by Maruti Suzuki's adamance in not equipping the L and V variants with those life saving airbags.

One must note that even if it did come with 2 airbags, the cabin structure after the test was rated as unstable which was not the case with the European Swift. So there seems to be an even deeper compromise on the Indian version than the omission of airbags.

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Unfortunately, they don't explain why they still rated the body structure unstable, or how just adding airbags helps improve safety if the structure itself isn't strong enough to remain intact upon impact.
I think stable/unstable is just a simple yes/no classification. The level of the structure's ability (or inability) to retain its stability would be understood only if one pores over all the (unpublished) test data that must have been recorded in such a test.

If one just has a look at the result, then one may conclude that the Go is just as bad as the Swift structurally. But the pictures and videos clearly tell a different story, although one only gets a rough idea. The Go's cabin has deformed terribly after the test, while the Swift seems to have held up better (while still not being enough to be classified as stable).

I guess the G-NCAP executive must have spoken from his experience about out how well it could fare if it had been equipped with two airbags. There are plenty of similar cases with NCAP affiliated organisations. Here is one such case from Latin NCAP (almost exactly the same as G-NCAP), both with and without airbags:

http://www.latinncap.com/data/pdf/renault-clio-en.pdf

http://www.latinncap.com/data/pdf/re...airbags-en.pdf

Last edited by RSR : 4th November 2014 at 18:15.
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Old 4th November 2014, 18:32   #167
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Thanks! So the test wasn't actually performed then? No wonder that the report is proving to be so elusive!
G-NCAP did test the Zxi model. Here's the video:


However, this was done in March and the official results were never published. I think this is the same Zxi sold in India. Watch from 10:41 onwards where they assess the damage from inside the cabin.

Quote:
So the Indian Swift does have the potential to fare rather decently (3* on G-NCAP), but has been let down badly by Maruti Suzuki's adamance in not equipping the L and V variants with those life saving airbags.
I would hope so,assuming the Zxi model exported to Latin America and sold locally are the same, structure wise.

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One must note that even if it did come with 2 airbags, the cabin structure after the test was rated as unstable which was not the case with the European Swift. So there seems to be an even deeper compromise on the Indian version than the omission of airbags.
I think so too. If you watch the Euro Ncap test of Swift, you can see how the roof remains stable and doesn't flex like the Swift seen in G-Ncap test. There is a clear compromise for our market.

EDIT: Just finished reading the 'adult occupant' safety rating for clio with airbags. Though the Cabin structure is rated 'Unstable' the bodyshell is rated stable (the one without airbags was rated unstable) and has passed UN95 side impact test too. So something similar with Swift ?

Last edited by shashank.nk : 4th November 2014 at 18:41.
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Old 4th November 2014, 18:51   #168
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Default Re: How few more days of silence will save Maruti and the rest!!

I totally disagree to blaming customers for the lack of safety features in Indian cars. Most of the times, the customers are ignorant.

Our (indian) cheapness and attitude towards safety, does not give the car companies the right to sell insecure products. Even though our regulations were bad, at least if our legal system was faster, we will be in a better state.

See how the legal system helped improve the Automobile security in the US - http://www.sidgilreath.com/docs/Driven-to-Safety.pdf

If it were up to the automobile companies and regulatory bodies, even in the west the automobile security would not have progressed.
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Old 4th November 2014, 20:00   #169
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

I love how Maruti and Nissan spokesmen said their cars meet all Indian regulations in response to these results. If people die/get injured in these cars, I don't think knowing or having known the car met non-existent regulations will be any consolation.
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Old 4th November 2014, 20:07   #170
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

Euro NCAP Swift front offset crash test (watch 0:8 to 0:49)
Note: Solid passenger cell, no deformity formed in roof.


ASEAN NCAP Swift front offset crash test
Note: Roof deformed.


Global NCAP India Swift
Note: Roof deformed similar to ASEAN NCAP Swift.


A guess, i think for vehicles with side curtain airbags the box sections on both sides of the roof are made stronger so that the area remains solid to prevent the airbag from shifting (which negates their presence) or failing during an impact. Except the roof rest of the vehicle including the door sill area fared decently compared to Euro Swift in the crash. So what i gather is Swift with curtain airbags uses a different spec panel pressing for that area compared to a Swift with no curtain bags. Again.. its just a guess.
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Old 4th November 2014, 20:13   #171
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

After using a Swift for 8 years i am not surprised at the results of these tests. I have a Jan 2007 model and the sheet metal and other metal parts are thin. To add to that my car met with an accident and the 2 left doors were replaced. This happened in 2013. The newer doors were even thinner. I think MUL wants to win the thinnest (phone) sheet metal awards.
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Old 4th November 2014, 20:19   #172
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Default Re: How few more days of silence will save Maruti and the rest!!

One parallel can be drawn with helmet rule for two-wheelers.
Its compulsory by law, still many people don't wear them and most of them won't if given a choice.
Govt. has tried time and again for making it compulsory for pillion rider but was opposed by all and sundry.
One more aspect is sub-standard and low quality helmets. They are bought in large numbers prove that we don't want to invest even for our own safety.

Can anyone let us know about about the situation in China which can be looked up as a reference with the same high population as ours.

To me the solution is compulsory Airbags across all the variants with the Govt. giving tax incentives like they give to sub 4m cars.
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Old 4th November 2014, 21:05   #173
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Default Re: How few more days of silence will save Maruti and the rest!!

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Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
Maruti Suzuki has NO EXCUSE!! Its not a cheap car, it is not a struggling model. The average price of a swift going out of a showroom is close to 6 lacs all inclusive!!! The margins are big so are the volumes.

They all hide behind the appalling safety standards set by the India government. But that is no excuse as well, because these car makers have a responsibility towards their buyers. Its a question of ethics above government rules and regulations.
Shortbeard,

Cannot agree more with you on each sentence you have written.

Want to draw attention to one particular aspect thats being mentioned again and again: that manufacturers are here to do business and since the government does not have laws, the manufacturers are not responsible.

In my opinion this is very loaded and lobsided statement. Since when does being in the market for doing business mean not being ethically responsible to your customer and his safety?

In other words, since when does being a business firm mean not being ethical?

Your customers safety is and should be your most important duty as he paid and put his trust in you and your product. Is'nt it?

If thats not the case, God help us when we buy a simple switch, and hope the law will protect us, since the manufacturer did not care about our safety. You can go to court after you or your loved one is dead, as there is a law.

Indeed, Maruti has no excuse. Being a market leader and having a market share of more than 40%, it has all the leeway necessary to set the correct example and set the benchmark. Instead it has chosen to put the monkey on the goverment's shoulders and that of the customer saying the customer will not pay.

Will all the customers who wait for 2-4 months for some Maruti products stop buying them cause the price increased by 30-50,000. Certainly not, IMO.
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Old 4th November 2014, 21:08   #174
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Post Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
Funny how everyone seems to be suddenly so concerned about the crash worthiness of cars sold in India. Its so much easier to sit on a chair and type your heart away on the computer screen. And finally when the time comes for buying a car, even forum members here have continuously opted for a middle or base variant for want of budget or just not finding the top model VFM citing funny excuses
Something that is even more funnier is that people talk about airbags and abs hardly wear seatbelt.

There will be genuine cases who may not be able to afford the top-end variant and hence sans safety. Safety should be made mandatory right from the base variant even if it charges extra premium or at the least provide abs and airbags as optional.
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Old 4th November 2014, 21:36   #175
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

I would have liked the Ritz to be tested as well. It is an export model I suppose and I have always heard about how it is better built than the average Marutis.

And it coming at a lower price point than Swift gives no excuse to the crowd that whines about wanting to buy top end model for Safety features but not being able to, citing lack of funds or not wanting those fancy features.

If people are truly concerned about safety, Ritz would have sold a lot more than what its current numbers are. Top end petrol is 75K less than Swift in New Delhi according to Carwale.
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Old 4th November 2014, 21:54   #176
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Default Re: How few more days of silence will save Maruti and the rest!!

So much of bashing Maruti.

I am no fan of Maruti and their products. But in this case, I see that the crash test is blown too much just because Swift is one of the largest selling car in India. What we are missing here is that almost all manufacturers in India make cars without safety features. Without a stricter regulation, I really can't expect from a manufacturer to make safer cars. There are not here to do social service but to do only business. I would want to blame our Government entirely for all this mess. Citizens safety rests with the Government not with a Business house.
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Old 4th November 2014, 22:04   #177
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/b...w/45037615.cms

So the car maker cartel SIAM comes in defense of manufacturers. As expected the line of reasoning is that cars meet the Indian safety standards (meaning no safety standard practically)!
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Old 4th November 2014, 22:07   #178
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Saw the video, finally. For those who have just followed the thread and not watched the videos, my recommendation is "Please Watch".

The Datsun Go seems to be complete junk - a death trap even if you are wearing seatbelts. The way it shattered makes me feel you would likely be dead even in a crash at 40 kph. Nissan ought to be ashamed of selling such a "car". For those who say, "They are better than two wheelers", my response is that at least a two wheeler driver knows he is driving a two wheeler, and will be careful (unless he is a nutty over grown teen who deserves a Darwin Award). People will drive a Datsun Go as if it is a real car, which it clearly is not. I remember that the original Zen was scrapped because it's body shell was much too weak, and replaced with the Alto. I hope the Alto is nowhere near as bad as a Datsun Go - the only saving grace with the Datsun Go seems to be that very few people have been foolish enough to buy it.

The Swift did not do as badly, the shell bent but did not crumble, and as they point out during the show, buyers of the ZDi who have buckled up will do okay. Pawan Goenka was on the show and pointed out the need for a transition period to new regulations - in my view, that is not acceptable. Cars like the Datsun Go must be scrapped - NOW.
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Old 4th November 2014, 22:07   #179
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Default Re: How few more days of silence will save Maruti and the rest!!

This is to the original poster:

I am not sure what your issue is all about. Maruti doesnt need to provide a new safer car for India. They already do that with Zxi models which come with ABS/Bags and more, if thats what you want.

Instead, they can discontinue Lxi and Vxi, and we have your wishes answered.

The thing is: There are some people who want Lxi/Vxi, so give it to them if they want it! Whats wrong with that.

The car scored low not because it is unsafe as a whole, but due to rating criteria that flags down a model without an Airbag or an ABS. An airbag/abs alone does not guarantee to save life, seatbelt does - specially in Indian conditions! I hope you understand that.

There are other bigger problems in India like road safety and the way people drive, but in India we prefer to fight with Private enterprise and not the Government.

To me, in India, safety is no longer about equipment anymore, its about road conditions and psychopaths behind the wheel. Looks like you havnt learned the lesson from Accident/Pics thread.

If you really want to be safe then may be you should install a Roll-Cage in your car and call it "Built like a Tank" like some people do over here.

Last edited by aerohit : 4th November 2014 at 22:17.
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Old 4th November 2014, 22:32   #180
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Default Re: How few more days of silence will save Maruti and the rest!!

Lack of awareness is the biggest problem. Safety is simply not on the radar of most folks in India. We see people crossing busy roads in the middle right under a pedestrian overpass, even one equipped with escalators and lifts. A few days ago a man jumped over a railing in front of me carrying a small child trying to cross a fast moving major road. I asked him why he didn't use the overpass right over his head? He explained that it was because he was carrying a child! I asked him if he didn't value the life of his child?

We have people sitting on roads, stopping without lights at night on expressways, driving on the wrong side, entering or crossing roads without looking- the examples are endless. We have people riding motorcycles without rear view mirrors and without tail lights at night. How many trucks and buses, even police and government vehicles have functioning tail lights? We have people riding bicycles on highways in pitch darkness. A few Rs. can buy them reflectors which would make them so much safer but no one has bothered to inform them. It is the same story in all fields. We have naked wires dangling from street lights with safety covers long gone or left open- a simple cheap sensor can turn these lights on and off automatically as seen even in the poorest of countries. We have open drain covers, uneven footpaths, children forced to walk between cars as foothpaths are taken over by businesses and a million other examples. We have people refusing to wear seatblets especially in the backseat. How many people make their children wear seat belts, let alone child seats? We have people who travel hanging from doors of vehicles, buses and trains. Many of these actions are carried out by educated folks.

Now the government is also made up of the same people with similar ideas regarding safety. It is not as if the government comes from a different nation and is used to a higher set of rules. Hence no one cares. Not the consumer, nor the government and certainly not the manufacturer.

This is going to be a long road. The current generation of Indians simply don't think about safety or planning before commencing an action in most cases.

Last edited by Lobogris : 4th November 2014 at 22:38.
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