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Old 4th November 2014, 22:54   #181
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Default Re: How few more days of silence will save Maruti and the rest!!

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Originally Posted by aerohit View Post
Maruti doesnt need to provide a new safer car for India. They already do that with Zxi models which come with ABS/Bags and more, if thats what you want.
The whole point is after the Polo crash test VW made Airbags and ABS(?) standard across all its models. A big thumbs up to them. Look at Maruti inspite of being the largest selling manufacturer they dont want to take that intiative . Instead they give us ABS in VXI/VDI Facelift Swift as if it was an obligation.

Honestly i dont think they would take the step which VW took .



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Originally Posted by aerohit View Post
The thing is: There are some people who want Lxi/Vxi, so give it to them if they want it! Whats wrong with that.
Wrong Maruti s telling them if you want airbag stretch your budget let us milk more of your money. Why cant a person even on a budget get the safety features as standard. So only the person who can stretch the budget(read let Maruti milk their money) deserve to get safety features?


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Originally Posted by aerohit View Post
The car scored low not because it is unsafe as a whole, but due to rating criteria that flags down a model without an Airbag or an ABS. An airbag/abs alone does not guarantee to save life, seatbelt does - specially in Indian conditions! I hope you understand that.
Quoting from the Swift Crash test Page for your kind reference.

"The car's structural integrity was also deemed as unstable. And this is a key point, given the made-in-Europe Swift has a much sturdier structure and had achieved a 5-Star crash certification from Euro-NCAP."
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Old 4th November 2014, 23:06   #182
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Default Re: How few more days of silence will save Maruti and the rest!!

Was watching the news on Amrita channel (Malayalam) and surprisingly, they picked up this issue. End of the feature said that both Maruti & Nissan released statements that they make cars that meet the guidelines laid out in the country!!

They have washed off their hands! Now the onus is completely with the regulatory bodies to tighten the nuts as much as required. I do NOT find a reason why any manufacturer should be allowed to sell a car without ABS & Airbags! Want to respect people's decision to commit suicide; make it optional so the "safety conscious" can choose to live! After all India is a democracy.
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Old 4th November 2014, 23:07   #183
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Default Re: How few more days of silence will save Maruti and the rest!!

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Originally Posted by sudev View Post
Easy to rant but when it comes to buying and parting with your money decision most (almost all) mango men would rather not pay. Safety consciousness is last thing in our priority.
Over all that things like "Airbag khula toh poora dashboard replace karna padega sir... Lakh rupai ka kharcha baithega" promote the less safe variants to our chindi junta.
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Old 4th November 2014, 23:27   #184
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Default Re: How few more days of silence will save Maruti and the rest!!

SIAM has jumped in to defend its members, with typically ridiculous arguments.
Here's the article:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/b...w/45037615.cms

Some choice samples below:

SIAM director general Vishnu Mathur said, "Every country has its own safety requirements. Our cars are meeting safety norms set by the government."
Pray tell us what these safety norms are and how do manufacturers ensure compliance.

Even in a developed market like Europe, crash test is done at a speed of 56 kmph and not at 64 kmph as done by Global NCAP. "Our average speed in India is far slower. To say that a particular car hasn't met its (Global NCAP) test is nothing but scaremongering,"

Does the extra 8 km per hour make such a large difference? Is 64 kmph above the legal speed limit in India? Can he tell us what the average speed in India is?

"There is no data to prove that a particular car is dangerous based on how many occupants have been killed in accidents, he said, adding the Global NCAP had issued a test result based on just a crash test.


A test result was issued on the basis of a crash test? How unfortunate!

It would be good if these manufacturer lobbies tell us what they have done to ensure safety for their customers. IIRC, Maruti was one of the manufacturers which introduced seat belts in its cars only after the government made them mandatory. To start with they should at least admit there is a problem, before sitting together to find solutions. This kind of brazen attitude is helping no one.
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Old 4th November 2014, 23:41   #185
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Default Re: How few more days of silence will save Maruti and the rest!!

SIAM is a manufacturer lobby, so they will of course favor the car makers and have no reason to stand up for the public. All the arguments of SIAM director Vishnu Mathur are simply rubbish and hold no logical reasoning.
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Old 5th November 2014, 00:50   #186
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

I would be very keen to know the test results of Maruti Omni which also sells in large numbers.
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Old 5th November 2014, 00:56   #187
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
Dear NDTV, Please do the following cars also
Amaze, Mobilio, Ciaz, i20 Elite, Grand i10, Sunny, Micra, Duster, Ecosport
Please also Ford Figo and Toyota Liva
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Old 5th November 2014, 01:28   #188
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by Kratos453 View Post
There will be genuine cases who may not be able to afford the top-end variant and hence sans safety. Safety should be made mandatory right from the base variant even if it charges extra premium or at the least provide abs and airbags as optional.
This might be true for entry level hatches where none of the offerings have any safety features AFAIK. But from then on most of the times we have an option of choosing the top end variant of the car from a lower segment which has the safety features vs the car from the higher segment which has more bling but comes without any safety features.
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Old 5th November 2014, 01:55   #189
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

Some good news. Government is coming with stricter regulations-

http://www.hindustantimes.com/busine...1-1282639.aspx

Quote:
Road transport and highways secretary Vijay Chhibber told HT that India’s first vehicle safety standard, the India New Car Assessment Programme (NCAP), based on the widely accepted United Nations NCAP, will be notified early next year.

The new NCAP regulations would require manufacturers to reinforce the car’s structure in line with European standards that will enable it to pass frontal and side impact crash tests at 56 kmph. Presently, passenger cars in Indian are equipped to withstand frontal crash tests at 46 kmph. Indian roads are among the most unsafe in the world. Around 140,000 people die in road accidents every year.

“Initially compliance will be voluntary but from October 2015, it will be mandatory for manufacturers to comply with the safety regulations,” Chhibber said.
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Old 5th November 2014, 02:58   #190
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

In my opinion all the manufactures are making hay as long as Sun is shining, they are legally right as they are following the law (read no/loose law) of the land.

I have no biases about any brand or make but the truth is that all manufactures are making money by providing bare basic models without any/low safety features to garner larger market share by providing low entry level options. In the name of fuel efficiency car makers are watering down the structural rigidity of the passenger cabin, is it worth the risk ? NO

It is the duty of government to draft laws in favor of safety and security of its citizens unfortunately so far they have failed miserably, hope the much talked about revised motor vehicle act will address these short comings. I am sure the day the motor vehicle act is revised all of them will start making compliant vehicles, question is by when.

A safety awareness campaign against these failed models can be a good note to start in the right direction.
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Old 5th November 2014, 06:07   #191
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by carwatcher View Post
I would be very keen to know the test results of Maruti Omni which also sells in large numbers.
Do we really need a test for that Driver's foot is the crumple zone on that(happened to my friend's dad). But the Omni does what it was designed to do, we can't expect a van with nil front overhang to earn any stars.
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Old 5th November 2014, 06:30   #192
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Default How few more days of silence will save Maruti and the rest!!

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Originally Posted by mayjay View Post
SIAM has jumped in to defend its members, with typically ridiculous arguments.

Even in a developed market like Europe, crash test is done at a speed of 56 kmph and not at 64 kmph as done by Global NCAP. "Our average speed in India is far slower. To say that a particular car hasn't met its (Global NCAP) test is nothing but scaremongering,"

Does the extra 8 km per hour make such a large difference? Is 64 kmph above the legal speed limit in India? Can he tell us what the average speed in India

What a shit-head! I normally don't like being abusive but that is what Siam deserves.

8 km does make a difference to be honest - about 25% greater energy to be dissipated. But is 56 kph the maximum speed that these death traps such as the Datsun Go can do? In Tamil we have a saying, "The guy who tried to wade across a river based on its average depth of 3 feet drowned" (ok, I paraphrase poorly). And that is precisely the fallacy here.

Even in Bombay traffic, where my average speed is 20 kph, I can hit peak speeds of 80-100 kph. And on our killer highways, people can and do go much faster, even in "cars" like the Datsun Go. Safety has to be tested at speeds at which accidents can take place. I agree testing at 100 kph is not needed - you will hopefully brake a reduce your speed a bit before crashing. But comparing average speeds to crash test speeds is clearly disingenuous.

Last edited by Hayek : 5th November 2014 at 06:33.
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Old 5th November 2014, 06:35   #193
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

That is really poor showing by the Swift. 3-Star rating for a car with ABS and Airbags in 2014 is simply not done. Shame on you MSIL! And the way the cabin of Datsun GO crumbled is shock horror! It should be banned.

I hope the govt. takes safety of all cars sold in our country seriously. That's the only way I see all manufacturers adopting global standards here. Because, safety doesn't sell in our country unfortunately!

I have first hand experience of it. We had an A-star ZXi with ABS/ Airbags till some time back. And when I put it up for sale, none of the buyers were keen on the safety kit. Most were concerned about the absence of alloy wheels though. Finally we gave the car to a BHPian who really wanted safety kit for his car. And I am seeing the same with our Swift ZDi now. Everyone is looking for a VDi here.
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Old 5th November 2014, 07:29   #194
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Default Re: How few more days of silence will save Maruti and the rest!!

@ALL Do not confuse speed of driving with crash speed. This can only be true if you go absolutely blindly in to the wall. So typical crash test speeds are what they "expectation" of crash speed is based on average traffic speed and some braking leading to reduction of speed before crash actually takes place.

Structural failures will differ based on what you are crashing against.

So in Indian scenario a crash test hitting a wall may actually be showing you safer results than hitting back of a truck without under run bars or huge over hang (typically seen on container trucks). To me this legislative action needs priority in enactment and enforcement.

RANT::
Statistically biggest fatalities on Indian are of pedestrians and two wheeler. Action, legislative and educative, needs to be done here. Why are two wheeler's allowed on highways and expressways? How may of us will agree with this? And how many will answer this with soci-economic pressure as justification?

My gut feel is that three wheeler's of all kinds and shapes will fail all crash test. Why are we allowing them? Or why no legislative and punitive actions on limiting their speed with only safety in mind? Soci-economic necessity justification?

Why no pedestrian challans? If they are active player in compromising safety (theirs or vehicular).

Tractor trailers / JCB's have no business in using highways - and in most of the safety conscious countries this is a total no no - there is nothing preventing this in India. And I am not yet discussing dangerously disastrous over loading.

I earlier stated that there are many more areas that need attention priority than forcing rating on manufacturer and resultant cost aggregation to consumer. Priority does not mean ignore this but only that act faster in other areas.

OFFTOPIC:
Some one earlier gave example of electrical switches. How many of us - US - actually follow and demand BIS standard compliant equipment? All of us who have cell phones will fail the test. We just do not care and the fact is that I have only seen very few three pin (may be the third pin is plastic) plugs using BIS standard diameter connectors. Legally no electric appliance can be sold in India not meeting BIS standards.

So the point I am making is that more than government affirmative action it is consumer wallet that votes and product standards follow that wallet.

Sorry for the rant and indirect's but personally I do think there is lot more to safe product than just some single standard test. And rants like a car manufacturer who has installed crash test facility cannot be believed or are plain bunch f%^&(# jokers need to be stopped. (I know I know this may earn me a tick off from moderators)
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Old 5th November 2014, 08:25   #195
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Default Re: How few more days of silence will save Maruti and the rest!!

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Originally Posted by sudev View Post
So the point I am making is that more than government affirmative action it is consumer wallet that votes and product standards follow that wallet.
@sudev ji - well said.

Might I add: "and the absence of exemplary punishment awarded by courts to manufacturers who fail to address the community's safety concerns"

As as illustration: Even toy makers in the US and Western Europe are scared about bringing a toy to market that can be a choking hazard. Reason : there have been enough lawsuits , which have forced others in the industry into bankruptcy court.

Unfortunately in India, life's cheap and a death here or there due to product failure is just a statistic. So, it's not worth anyone's while to change things.

Last edited by joybhowmik : 5th November 2014 at 08:34.
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