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Old 6th November 2014, 16:44   #286
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by searacer932 View Post
What a terrible,terrrible reply from the VP of MUL? I think it would have been more comforting if MUL had acknowledged the problem in the first place and if they had indicated that they are trying to continuously improve. Now, if they just dismiss the problem then they could just dismiss any problem that I come during the usage of a MUL vehicle. As a customer I at least need acknowledgement of the problem even if they don't know how to tackle/solve the problem. Non acknowledgement really dents the confidence of the customer.
Terrible indeed. Look at the choice of words: "All our cars meet the highest safety standards set by the Indian government". Clever, isn't it? Enough to fool the gullible into thinking that there are some high standards set by the government and MUL is adhering to all of those. That guy deserves to be flogged in public and not fed for a month.
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Old 6th November 2014, 16:49   #287
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
3 point seatbelts we have in road going cars can do little on their own. Think about it, a 2inch wide 60-80cm long strap across trying to stop a soft body of around 80-90kilos traveling at 60kph. If seatbelts were good enough on its own then airbags would not be required. Seatbelt is the primary restraint system, air bags assist them by cushioning the impact. Thats why they are called SRS Airbag; SRS for supplementary restraint system.

Another important point to note:
Indian cars with airbag did not score 3 or 4 stars just because of airbags, they also have seat belt pretensioners which the base variant lacks. Pre-tensioners tighten the seatbelt when airbag impact sensors are trigerred. Regular seatbelts stops the person with its inertia reel mechanism - once the person has moved a bit from his seat; the pretensioner seatbelt acts a fraction of a second quicker actively holding him into the seat.


Sorry to hear about your crash, but glad to hear that you and your fellow passengers made it out without any major injuries.
Are you sure that you hit and you were being hit from the back at 70MPH? You must have braked to a slightly slower speed when you saw the vehicle in front of you crash? Same case with the Ford Fiesta that hit your car from behind? There's a lot of variables in a real world motorway pile-up like what you hit, how you hit, speed at the point of impact, did the other vehicle or object move, how much it crumpled etc etc.. So you can't compare a motorway accident to a lab crash test and say there is something wrong with the seatbelt.

Below is the crash test of the 2008 Insignia and you can see the dummy's head smacking the steering wheel/dashboard if it wasn't for the airbag. This car had seatbelt pre-tensioners.
Sankar, I completely agree with all your points. The seatbelt pre-tensioners, was not aware of the term, is also what I was mentioning, do we know the quality of seat belts in India? I've noticed, in some cars the seat belt locks up with less effort and some requires heavy effort. Is it possible the seat belts don't lock quick enough during a slow speed crash but locks on a higher speed? As you mentioned, the high end cars locks the seat belt from sensor inputs as well, that is a very good feature, I was not aware of that.

Regarding my accident, yes I did brake, so the speed at the time of impact will be way less. I'm not sure how much, that's why I only mentioned the travelling speed. But the car behind me definitely hit at some speed. I got down to see the damage and could see the Figo reduced to almost half. The bonnet had completely crumpled, I could see the car only from the rear till the A-pillar, didn't notice where the engine went. The best part is, ambulance and police was present within a couple of minutes, don't know from where they came, but it was super quick, took me by surprise. That goes a long way in saving a person's life.

And finally I would like to finish by saying, better safety features will only reduce causalities, the number of accidents will still remain the same. Govt and we ourselves should also focus on better road infrastructure and sensible driving to reduce the number of accidents.
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Old 6th November 2014, 16:50   #288
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

Can Team BHP put an advisory about these coffin cars ? Something that can easily show up in google search results. And yes along with the statement made by the VP of Maruti.
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Old 6th November 2014, 16:56   #289
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Default Re: Global NCAP Asks For Withdrawal of Datsun Go From India

All the manufactureres will argue is a specific product is made, designed at a specific price point. Customer you wanted a cheap car to commute from A to B and that is what this is. There are other useless transport means (public transport) like the 3 wheeled Rickshaws, the likes of Tata Ace, Maximos, etc which are more dangerous.
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Old 6th November 2014, 17:05   #290
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Default Re: Global NCAP Asks For Withdrawal of Datsun Go From India

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Originally Posted by the VTEC guy View Post
. There are other useless transport means (public transport) like the 3 wheeled Rickshaws, the likes of Tata Ace, Maximos, etc which are more dangerous.
Agreed. I was thinking on similar lines. Everyday when I drive to work, I can't ignore the thought on safety of these autorikhshaws especially when most of them are driven by maniacs.

I could be a passenger on them on occasions and it scares me. Even a mid speed impact from a car can send these flying or toppling with absolutely no protection to the driver or passenger.

This begs the question. Why only look at cars? Given the low proportion of users who own a car in India, it is imperative that the safety aspects are extended to all public transport vehicles as well.

Yes there will be occasions when double the intended capacity of people will be sitting in them but that's for the police to control. From a manufacturer viewpoint, there is a need to have safety standards for people carriers.
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Old 6th November 2014, 17:17   #291
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Default Re: Global NCAP Asks For Withdrawal of Datsun Go From India

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Originally Posted by Reinhard View Post
The first thought when I read the name Max Mosley was this - . Anyone who follows F1 since last 2 decades will know why.
With you on that!

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Originally Posted by Reinhard View Post
Related with the letter to Nissan, I think it is a bit odd to get such a directive from GNCAP. Do they have that authority at all? Isn't their responsibility to only conduct the tests & provide the results? It is then upto the auto-makers, local transport offices AND us-customers to decide based on the numbers. No surprise if Nissan responds the same way to Mr. MM.

And if they want to start directing this way, what will be left in MSIL's inventory to sell? Only Swift/Ritz/Ertiga/GV/Ciaz Z variants?
Maybe they (NCAP) have given their suggestions/recommendations only!!
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Old 6th November 2014, 17:19   #292
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Default Re: Global NCAP Asks For Withdrawal of Datsun Go From India

This is kind of shocking and make me really wander if there an ulterior motive behind all this. Why single out a single car and crush its image in media. Regardless of any action that might or might not happen, all this media coverage of this test has ensured that the Datsun Go is going to find it very difficult to survive in our country anymore. But aren't cars other than the GO equally unsafe, if not more?

As sidindica rightly wrote at another place: What about the hundreds of Maruti Omni Vans plying on our road? I am sure they will also face the same results.
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Old 6th November 2014, 17:27   #293
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Default Re: Global NCAP Asks For Withdrawal of Datsun Go From India

In UK, The Suzuki Swift 1.2L Petrol (5 door version) costs almost 9.3 Lacs (9499 GBP). Just wondering, how many Indian buyers will pay anything close to that amount if Suzuki was to offer us the Swift with exactly the same safety features and structure? Assuming that labour costs are lower in India, we can knock off another Lakh from the production cost. That's still 8+ for the base petrol version with european safety standards.

MODS: I wanted to post this in the Swift/ Datsun Go NCAP test thread but posted it here by mistake, can this post be moved there or deleted?

Last edited by Astleviz : 6th November 2014 at 17:40.
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Old 6th November 2014, 17:34   #294
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by jessie007 View Post
Withdraw Datsun Go From India, Says Global Safety Watchdog to Nissan CEO
Wow, strong worded and much needed. This needs some publicity. Nobody should try fool us with sub-standard products labelled under a different brand. And now they are busy in the studio of Go+! Very sad of you Nissan, I'm loosing interest in you.
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Old 6th November 2014, 17:36   #295
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Default Re: Global NCAP Asks For Withdrawal of Datsun Go From India

So much ado about a car which is almost non-existent on the roads. Wish the letter was addressed to Maruti instead of Nissan.
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Old 6th November 2014, 17:45   #296
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Default Re: Global NCAP Asks For Withdrawal of Datsun Go From India

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Originally Posted by Astleviz View Post
In UK, The Suzuki Swift 1.2L Petrol (5 door version) costs almost 9.3 Lacs (9499 GBP). Just wondering, how many Indian buyers will pay anything close to that amount if Suzuki was to offer us the Swift with exactly the same safety features and structure? Assuming that labour costs are lower in India, we can knock off another Lakh from the production cost. That's still 8+ for the base petrol version with european safety standards.
This is pessimistic thinking. How does VW manage to sell the Polo that starts at 11880 GBP, i.e around 12 lakh rupees for ~6 lakh here in India. Plus, the engine in UK is a puny 1 litre, in comparison to our 1.2. And remember, this version is barebones, has no AC. Just has Airbags and ABS. Whereas the one in India has Airbags, ABS, Audio system, AC etc etc.

Despite this fact, we get a car that is equally safe (structurally, and safety feature wise).

Where is the VW bashing now?

Maruti has no reason to provide an unsafe car, at prices which are astronomical if these facts are considered.

You are forgetting various aspects such as taxes, economies of scale, and factors of production. All these things point favourably towards India, plus considering the sheer number of Swifts Maruti sells, I am sure they can take a slight hit on their huge profits.

Plus, the government would probably take steps to ensure that prices of cars don't rise post the implementation of these rules.
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Old 6th November 2014, 17:52   #297
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

Not surprising considering how low Safety scores in an average Indian's purchase decision.

Should be an eye opener for those who were arguing on this forum that the quality of sheet metal used in car construction has no bearing on the structural rigidity and passive safety.

I am not quoting these posts to get even but to remind members that they should be thoughtful with their views as this website is not just a forum of debate but also an instrument that molds public opinion.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ml#post3551582 (Sheet Metal Thickness - Does it matter?)

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Originally Posted by sourabhzen View Post
Is there any studies or data to support this statement? If yes, then my next car will have thicker sheet metal as well. Please share a link to the data for everyone's benefit, if available.
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Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
Sorry, but the NCAP says otherwise. Considering all things to be equal, the sheet metal thickness is NOT a criteria for safety. I have quoted this probably twice or thrice before in this same thread. I will do it one more time for you. And the door thud is not because of the metal, it is because of dampening rubbers. Also, I have not yet read someone who established that doors which do not close with a 'reassuring thud' are unsafe and open & throw out the occupants in case of accidents!



Saurabh, as I stated earlier, there are studies. But they point out to something entirely contradictory. The thickness of sheet metal has NO impact on the crash safety of the car as assessed by Australian NCAP. I will quote the source & the statement below:



(Source: Australian NCAP; http://www.ancap.com.au/faqs)

Trust that seals the discussion of this thread this time. The question that this thread asks is do 'Sheet metal thickness matter (in terms of safety?)' I think that thread has the answer based on the extensive research and specialization that the NCAPs undertake. So, everything else remaining the same, external sheet metal will not have impact on the crash safety of the car.

Regards,
Saket
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Originally Posted by nakul0888 View Post
We all know the typical cliches with respect to car companies in our market.

The Europeans are thought to make the better build cars.
Their cars often come up with thicker sheet metal, seems to be more sturdy and overall feels like a vault, especially ze Germans. As a result they are thought to be much more safer as well.

The Asians on the other hand are thought to make flimsy cars with less protection focusing solely on fuel economy and making more profits. Their cars generally have a light feel to everything including the doors, bonnet, boot..etc. As a result they are thought to be less safe, even dangerous. Several people claim they didn't buy the Honda city because it felt dangerously light build and so they went and brought a rapid/vento.

Is there any reliable sources which claim that the Japanese cars are far less safer than their European competition?
In the recent ASEAN NCAP safety ratings the Honda city actually came ahead of the Vento scoring a full 5 stars. So did the CRV which is also thought to be relatively flimsily build in it's segment.

http://www.autocarindia.com/auto-new...rs-384684.aspx

Now I know these were not Indian made cars but the thing is the kerb weight of both the Indian made honda and the Malayasian made honda are reported to be the same. So it is not like Honda makes city like VW makes the vento over there in Malaysia.

Here is my argument though. If the Japanese are able to make a considerably lighter car as safe as a heavy European car then aren't they the more brighter folks here. I mean a lighter car means better power to weight ratio, better economy, nimbler handling, basically better at everything. Sure you lose out on the novelty factor of a Vault like build quality and maybe the thicker sheet metal may help in case of fender benders. But is that more relevant than better performance of the car?

Case in point the Linea T jet is a gem of a car. I am in no way going to say the Honda city is a better driver's car but the fact is even with all that extra torque and similar power figures the T-jet is noticeably slower than the Honda. And so too is the case with the Vento/Rapid. Also I recently found out that the new Maruti Ciaz is actually lighter than a Polo. That is just absurd. Is the tiny German Hatchback made out of lead?

And if the Honda/Maruti is as safe as the vento/linea/rapid while having better performance then what exactly is the point of all that sheet metal thickness. Isn't it just wasteful use of resources? Aren't car makers nowadays striving to make their cars lighter to get better fuel economy and meeting emissions? Isn't that more important than just some doors shutting with a thud?

The Germans seems to have seen the light. Their new MQB platform is the testament to that. Still sad to see many people criticizing it because MQB platformed cars seemed to be "lighter" than their previous models. I think it's time us Indians saw the bigger picture here. Any pointer you have is deeply welcome and sorry for the excessively long rant.

Last edited by GTO : 8th November 2014 at 16:59. Reason: No need to call people names, buddy
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Old 6th November 2014, 18:08   #298
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Default Re: Global NCAP Asks For Withdrawal of Datsun Go From India

That's some bold move! Kudos!!

Does this announcement require any further approval from board members etc ?

What about the cars that are already sold ? Nissan should also think about the rational compensation to the existing owners.

Do we have any identical case study from past ? If yes, what was the compensation pattern ?

On a lighter note, Nissan has also managed to damage the reputation of "Babuji" (Alok Nath Advt.)
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Old 6th November 2014, 18:19   #299
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

I happened to sit in a Swift in my recent visit to Dubai, the doors were slightly heavier than the Indian Swift. Not sure if that was just a feeling or they actually weighed a little more. After reading/watching the video I think it definitely was something different than the Indian Swift.

My thoughts have already been put by fellow team members here, what we can do (if possible) is mention and highlight the safety ratings/ features of cars in new car reviews in the very first summary section. I understand it will be little tricky but at least we can start.
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Old 6th November 2014, 18:22   #300
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Default Re: Global NCAP Asks For Withdrawal of Datsun Go From India

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Originally Posted by MunnabhaiMBBS View Post
That's some bold move! Kudos!!

Does this announcement require any further approval from board members etc ?

What about the cars that are already sold ? Nissan should also think about the rational compensation to the existing owners.

Do we have any identical case study from past ? If yes, what was the compensation pattern ?

On a lighter note, Nissan has also managed to damage the reputation of "Babuji" (Alok Nath Advt.)

I think it needs to be made explicit that this is a mere recommendation and GNCAP has no powers in India, or anywhere around the world to discontinue the production of any cars. (request to mods to make the OP more explicit about the same)


I highly doubt that Datsun would stop selling the Go. It possibly would make modifications in order to assure its buyers of the safety of the car. It looks like Datsun's good days are over before they started.

Another thing is that this certainly doesn't suggest that the Alto,Nano or in fact the i10 performed any better.

Why GNCAP has only asked Datsun, and not any other manufacturers is highly unclear.
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