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Old 7th November 2014, 08:05   #346
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by RavSam View Post
Sorry but I don't know about it.
However if your friend is going for the Celerio, it can only be deemed safe (relatively as the crash tested car is Thai mfd model) in its ZXi (O) version which gets ABS + Airbags, can he not stretch upto 50K more for Grand i10 P Asta (O) with ABS +_Airbags and other kit and much better quality and built for that price difference?

My friend was considering Celerio and I made him go for i10 and he is very glad now.
His budget is around 4-4.5L only, I am pushing him really hard to get Celerio instead of other extremely basic hatchbacks. I hate recommending unsafe cars, hope he gets at least zxi, optional variant is too expensive according to him.
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Old 7th November 2014, 08:15   #347
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
Also, from what I've experienced, ultra-narrow economy tyres on the basic Swift are terrible. Better grip and better brakes would make a real-world difference. That's what actually makes these cars even less safe in their Indian avatars.
Yes, Even before the GNCAP test results, I really used to feel concerned about the Swift drivers trying to over take a Jetta for which they used to do much much above the 100+. My concern used to be, there is a junction ahead, I can stop, what about this guy on Swift?

By the way please go through the images on the following link. The Swift has only the decorative plastic and inside the actual bumper contraption is missing. Compare this to another not-so-popular brand's car. This should be an eye opener to all those people "kitne deti hai" types and those who love only features and forget what is inside.

http://www.rushlane.com/maruti-swift...ljIloSVbbeq.99

To quote verbatim from another forum,

"Unlike Volkswagen, who had immediately stopped offering Polo without airbags after the test report by Global NCAP handed them 0 points last year, Maruti has replied saying that their car is safe and passes all tests laid down by Indian government. Maruti also adds that the crash test report will not affect sales of Swift, which averages at about 17,000 units every month.
Yes, we too agree sales will not be affected. But what about passenger safety? Earlier today, in the light of recent crash test, reader Dileep Pazhanchery shared the images below. He says – See the front barrier of Maruti Swift for avoiding crashes, as compared to PXXXX. The one on Swift seems very thin, while the on PXXXX looks strong and sturdy. “Still I wonder why every one going for swift…….People doesnt need safety……After death what they will do with mileage,” he adds "


Read more at http://www.rushlane.com/maruti-swift...ljIloSVbbeq.99
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Old 7th November 2014, 08:17   #348
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Default Re: Global NCAP Asks For Withdrawal of Datsun Go From India

Okay time for some conspiracy theory.

One day at the Indian headquarters of international consortium of European Car Makers.

Top boss: Guys, why cant we see any growth in Indian sales when this is a big market?

Guys: Sir, what to do people here are more obsessed with fuel efficiency and reliability than our core values of thud and heavy door. We have to make our cars more reliable and lighter.

Top boss: No way. Our cars cant be reliable. Thats not our strength. Neither can we reduce weight. We will lose the only thing we are known for.

Guys: Then sir it is difficult we have to shed a few inches or get Indians realise our cars are safer.

Top Boss: Hey our friend global NCAP is also looking to enter india by having a test facility set up here. Lets see if we can work something out with them.

Meanwhile at Global NCAP headquarters some where

NCAP top boss: Guys we have been wanting to enter India for long now and I think we have just the opportunity for that. I have got a request from the consortium of European Car Makers that we test random cars from India to prove that the Consortium builds safer cars. They are sure that the top selling cars will prove to be unsafe and then to additionally bolster that claim, they want us to write to the others to withdraw the unsafe cars from market. It is a win win for us and the consortium.

They will get a good shot in their arm, and the Mango man will believe that NCAP is here to help them. We may be able to set up a text facility in India. Maybe even get government funding for it!

Guys at NCAP: Sir, we dont think it will work. Maruti is too strong a player. It is not advisale to take up enimity with Maruti if we want to do anything at all in India.

Top boss at NCAP: Oh is it?

Ok what we will do is, we wont mention Maruti. We will just write a letter to Nissan or any other manufacturer to withdraw their car. This will generate interest in the people, who will start looking up for our videos. They will realise that Maruti is no better and we would have got our point across without explicitly naming any big shots!

Applause in the board room.


Rest as they say is history.


Disclaimer: This is purely in a lighter vein and intent was not to hurt any sentiments. (Sorry if it was not funny :P) Maruti has its strong points. I wish one of those were good safety.
I am personally glad that whatever be the motives, these tests have atleast opened our eyes on one thing that India specific models are not as well built as the ones sold outside. My next car would be a VW unless I am convinced that Maruti and others have taken genuine steps to ensure same standards in india as in other countries.

Last edited by vibbs : 7th November 2014 at 08:19.
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Old 7th November 2014, 08:17   #349
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by giri1.8 View Post
His budget is around 4-4.5L only, I am pushing him really hard to get Celerio instead of other extremely basic hatchbacks. I hate recommending unsafe cars, hope he gets at least zxi, optional variant is too expensive according to him.
Sadly, if I am not wrong, I think no car under that range comes with safety features. Only seat belts would be on offer but even the Polo scored Zero with seat-belts and no Airbags. So, cars in that range can't be termed "safe".

Celerio's ZXi will just have additional bells and whistles compared to variants below it, so it doesn't make much of a difference when it comes to safety front unless you get ZXi (O). Only Wagon R comes with Dr.Airbag+ABS as option in VXi trim in that range but is a notch above 5 lacs. Hyundai Eon Sportz is just with Dr.Airbag for around 4.50 lacs.

Is you friend in a hurry? If he can manage to wait for an year we will get base variants with Airbags + ABS.
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Old 7th November 2014, 08:30   #350
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by RavSam View Post
Sadly, if I am not wrong, I think no car under that range comes with safety features. Only seat belts would be on offer but even the Polo scored Zero with seat-belts and no Airbags. So, cars in that range can't be termed "safe".

Celerio's ZXi will just have additional bells and whistles compared to variants below it, so it doesn't make much of a difference when it comes to safety front unless you get ZXi (O). Only Wagon R comes with Dr.Airbag+ABS as option in VXi trim in that range but is a notch above 5 lacs. Hyundai Eon Sportz is just with Dr.Airbag for around 4.50 lacs.

Is you friend in a hurry? If he can manage to wait for an year we will get base variants with Airbags + ABS.
Celerio Zxi has driver airbag, let not go too off topic, we can only influence to a certain extend in decisions, and we should respect their decisions too. So I am just giving him suggestion as of now. Will surely convey him about the things you mentioned
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Old 7th November 2014, 08:37   #351
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by giri1.8 View Post
Celerio Zxi has driver airbag...
Oh yes, sorry. It indeed does have.
Anyway happy car hunting for him.
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Old 7th November 2014, 09:13   #352
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by alavandar View Post
Yes, Even before the GNCAP test results, I really used to feel concerned about the Swift drivers trying to over take a Jetta for which they used to do much much above the 100+. My concern used to be, there is a junction ahead, I can stop, what about this guy on Swift?

By the way please go through the images on the following link. The Swift has only the decorative plastic and inside the actual bumper contraption is missing. Compare this to another not-so-popular brand's car. This should be an eye opener to all those people "kitne deti hai" types and those who love only features and forget what is inside.

http://www.rushlane.com/maruti-swift...ljIloSVbbeq.99

To quote verbatim from another forum,

"Unlike Volkswagen, who had immediately stopped offering Polo without airbags after the test report by Global NCAP handed them 0 points last year, Maruti has replied saying that their car is safe and passes all tests laid down by Indian government. Maruti also adds that the crash test report will not affect sales of Swift, which averages at about 17,000 units every month.
Yes, we too agree sales will not be affected. But what about passenger safety? Earlier today, in the light of recent crash test, reader Dileep Pazhanchery shared the images below. He says – See the front barrier of Maruti Swift for avoiding crashes, as compared to PXXXX. The one on Swift seems very thin, while the on PXXXX looks strong and sturdy. “Still I wonder why every one going for swift…….People doesnt need safety……After death what they will do with mileage,” he adds "


Read more at http://www.rushlane.com/maruti-swift...ljIloSVbbeq.99

Its like choosing between Charybdis and Scylla

One company takes customer's safety seriously but has absolute contempt for the customer as evidenced by the showroom and service standards, whereas the other excels at customer service but apparently couldn't care less about the life and limb of the customer.
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Old 7th November 2014, 09:24   #353
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

Withdraw all cars not just Datsun Go which does not have adequate safety rating. What do the car manufacturers think of Indians? Are we lab animals to do test?

It's a shame that their focus is only on increasing sales numbers in India.
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Old 7th November 2014, 09:34   #354
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

It is no surprise that Swift and the Datsun Go failed the test. Whats dissapointing is the way Maruti chose to dismiss the issue. The crash test was done at 64 kmph which according to Shri Manohar (VP marketing Maruti) is a very high speed not practical on indian roads. My two cents :

1. The crash test at 64 kmph is equivalent to a crash of two vehicles coming in opposite direction at 32 kmph. The relative velocity of a vehicle with respect to other is 32 + 32 = 64 kmph. Could someone please clear Mr Manohar's basic physics of relative velocity and apprise him that India does not has moonscape roads where their cars cannot even achieve speeds of 32 kmph.

2. The assembly line of the Swift which is exported is different than what is sold in India. Would someone from Maruti please elaborate what hanky panky is done to the car on the export version line to make it suitable for export markets.

3. Could someone from Maruti tell me why my life is cheaper than a european life. Or perhaps Suzuki sans sitting in japan think that we are more than a billion people so a few of us loosing our lives would only reduce pressure on our country's already limited resources.

4. I dont't know why our government wants to setup an independent crash test fascility. It takes years for a fascility to come to certain standard. The initial 5 years are just a learning period for the fascility.
The modern expressways made in India are surely world class standards where speeds equivalent to European highways can be achieved. So why not simply adopt Euro safety standards and make it mandatory to get the car Euro NCAP certified. I do not know about others but me would take the Indian NCAP crash test rating with a pinch of salt given the chalta hai attitude in our system.

I am sure most of the cars sold in our market will fail the crash tests be it with or without Air Bags. Till the time the consumer is made aware of importance of safety the car manufacturers will be laughing their way to the bank.
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Old 7th November 2014, 09:40   #355
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by adarsh76 View Post
Withdraw all cars not just Datsun Go which does not have adequate safety rating. What do the car manufacturers think of Indians? Are we lab animals to do test?

It's a shame that their focus is only on increasing sales numbers in India.
Your disappointment is perfectly placed adarsh76. I guess we must also focus on the positives of something like this coming to light, more and more people will start asking about safety, and budeting for it when they choose to buy their next car.

I have known people who wouldnt even wear seatbelts in their car because they feel it 'restricts' them. Spending for airbags and ABS is a long shot for such folks, but that mindset will change soon when they see the value attached to these safety features.

Manufacturers will respond to consumer demand, and as our automobile market matures, points like safety ratings willl increasingly become more prominent deciding factors, and car companies will sit up and pay attention.

Acche din aane wale hain!
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Old 7th November 2014, 10:28   #356
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by chncar View Post
Its like choosing between Charybdis and Scylla

One company takes customer's safety seriously but has absolute contempt for the customer as evidenced by the showroom and service standards, whereas the other excels at customer service but apparently couldn't care less about the life and limb of the customer.
ha..ha..I can only laugh at the state of affairs in Indian car market. A guy, who built a safe car do not know for the past so many years (and may be even now) how to market it. And mind you PXXXX and LXXXX were the cars to have many features in their cars which were otherwise available in high end cars earlier.
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Old 7th November 2014, 10:34   #357
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Default Re: Global NCAP Asks For Withdrawal of Datsun Go From India

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This is kind of shocking and make me really wander if there an ulterior motive behind all this. Why single out a single car and crush its image in media. Regardless of any action that might or might not happen, all this media coverage of this test has ensured that the Datsun Go is going to find it very difficult to survive in our country anymore. But aren't cars other than the GO equally unsafe, if not more?
Here are the reasons I can think of, regarding why Go should be singled out in this case:
  • Datsun ads tried to project it as a very powerful car with 1.2L engine when competition gave 800cc. With greater power comes greater responsibility.
  • This is a segment above the Nano and half a segment above Alto800/Eon given the price.
  • This model was introduced very recently and still didn't have any airbags even as an option while the direct competition like Alto and Eon at least had driver airbags as optional in top variant.
  • Nissan was ashamed to call this car their product and hence revived a dead brand to avoid risk of bad publicity to their brand. None of their competition were ashamed of their own product. So a little publicity worldwide to the original makers of Go is something Nissan has to bear with.
  • While doing the test, NCAP folks would have found out how difficult it was to get the puny-engined Nano to attain the required 64km/h for the test when compared to the other cars.
  • Renault-Nissan is an alliance and can be treated as a European car considering the platform sharing and cross-badging involved as well as the fact that Renault has a controlling stake in Nissan. A car like Go coming from such a company is going to tarnish the European brand across the globe, which is somehow holding on to its last strength over others - the safe cars.
  • If Asian cars are unsafe, that is added advertising opportunity for European brands. However, if a European car is unsafe, it backfires.
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Originally Posted by vibbs View Post
My next car would be a VW unless I am convinced that Maruti and others have taken genuine steps to ensure same standards in india as in other countries.
Why not a Ford? Figo actually did better than Polo in the first test without airbags and the dummy didn't actually hit the steering wheel even without the airbag. It was the only car that passed the test even without the airbag, though that is heavily downplayed by everyone. We hear that every car failed the test but Figo actually passed the test though a repeat test may or may not have given the same result!

Ford Figo passed despite not having a driver airbag when the dummy’s head narrowly avoided hitting the steering wheel directly.

- Source: http://www.globalncap.org/crash-test...rs-are-unsafe/
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Old 7th November 2014, 10:41   #358
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Default Re: Global NCAP Asks For Withdrawal of Datsun Go From India

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Originally Posted by vibbs View Post
My next car would be a VW unless I am convinced that Maruti and others have taken genuine steps to ensure same standards in india as in other countries.
Funny how heightened sentiments can change opinions. Let a fresh DSG failure or after sales horror story about a Skoda/VW brand start and see how people will start praising MSIL and the likes again.
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Old 7th November 2014, 10:52   #359
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Default Global NCAP Asks For Withdrawal of Datsun Go From India

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Originally Posted by vibbs View Post
Okay time for some conspiracy theory.

Lol vibbs. That was funny indeed.. Good for a laugh! Though you said it as a joke and we take it that way, I wouldn't be surprised if many takes this theory seriously. It does give a valid reason to justify their "VFM" cars again. More confusing theories for an already confused market. Nice!

Last edited by ajaypjayaraj : 7th November 2014 at 11:07.
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Old 7th November 2014, 10:52   #360
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Default Re: Global NCAP Asks For Withdrawal of Datsun Go From India

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Originally Posted by zenren View Post
Why not a Ford? Figo actually did better than Polo in the first test without airbags and the dummy didn't actually hit the steering wheel even without the airbag. It was the only car that passed the test even without the airbag, though that is heavily downplayed by everyone. We hear that every car failed the test but Figo actually passed the test though a repeat test may or may not have given the same result!

Ford Figo passed despite not having a driver airbag when the dummy’s head narrowly avoided hitting the steering wheel directly.

- Source: http://www.globalncap.org/crash-test...rs-are-unsafe/
Don't know what are you saying but the detailed crash test report is conveying otherwise : http://www.globalncap.org/wp-content..._result_v2.pdf

Also the only car which received passing stars is the VW Polo with 2 airbags:

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Also quoting a paragraph from the Global NCAP link:
Volkswagen has decided to withdraw the non-airbag version of the Polo from sale in India. Because of this, Global NCAP agreed to a request from VW to assess a version of the Polo that has two airbags fitted as standard as from now. Other manufacturers had the same opportunity.

Still if there is any apprehension against VW then let it be and choose then Ford or any other cars but why the 'Indianized' Asian car?

Quote:
If Asian cars are unsafe, that is added advertising opportunity for European brands. However, if a European car is unsafe, it backfires.
Have seen lot of such comments from 'Indian' car fans who don't like European cars and will have to say that nothing can be more silly than that. Point is not that the Asian or any other car is unsafe, rather point is the majority of manufacturers are selling stripped down version of their cars in India. Those cars are way too much compromised on safety/quality front since the manufacturers can get away because their products don't have to conduct any tests here unlike what is done in Europe or US etc. Instead of welcoming the move, we will keep finding negative in it, as usual.

And about Ford, the same Ford had to add 150+ more components in the structure alone in the Ecosport when they decided to sell it in Europe. Indian Ecosport is no where near to Euro Ecosport which has passed the tests. I am not even talking about safety features, just talking about the structure. Have posted the link of the source earlier somewhere else on the forum.

Last edited by tbppjpr : 7th November 2014 at 10:56.
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