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Old 7th November 2014, 13:29   #376
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Default Re: Global NCAP Asks For Withdrawal of Datsun Go From India

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Originally Posted by zenren View Post
Crash test videos we see are for the 64km/h crash. I got confused between the UN's basic safety test (at 56 km/h) and the Global NCAP (at 64km/h) since Global NCAP mentioned both in the same article. Figo passed the basic test since the driver didn't hit the steering at 56 km/h
Hitting head at steering is another thing, but if you look at the structure behavior during crash, you will find the Figo's A pillar starts receiving damage after the crash. There are significantly visible bends at Roof joint and at bottom part of the A pillar. Whereas the Polo's A pillars and other crucial portions except the crumple zone just seem intact. So it means a slightly higher impact force and the risk of getting crushed in cabin can be increased in the Figo compared to the Polo.

I am rather surprised to see Figo performing so better since its a very-very old platform of an old generation Fiesta with older design. Considering it's performance in the crash tests, its no wonder Ford designed such a light weight new Fiesta which performs so well during crash tests.

Waiting for the day when we see crash tests of Indian versions of Amaze/Brio, Etios/Liva, Ciaz, City etc.
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Old 7th November 2014, 13:35   #377
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Doesn't one of those laws of physics say something about Equal and opposite?
I am not an expert in Physics but I think that the law will not hold good if the speeds & weights of the cars involving in such a crash are different. Sure thing, if the cars involved in a crash are same and were travelling at same speed, the law should hold good. Probably someone with better understanding of the subject can put it in a way that may help us understand the situation more clearly.

But here's is an excerpt from research report published by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS):

Quote:
Weight comes into play in a collision involving two vehicles. The bigger vehicle will push the lighter one backward during the impact. As a result, there will be less force on the occupants of the heavier vehicle and more on the people in the lighter vehicle. Heavier vehicles also fare better in some single-vehicle crashes because they are more likely to move, bend or deform objects they hit.
Source: http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/ve...d-weight/qanda

Regards,
Saket

Edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by slamnos View Post
Hi Folks, I think we are missing on a key point here, NCAP is not the regulatory authority in India and this is not tested as per Indian standards.

All our vehicles fully pass the ARAI tests and the standards are set by Government.

And also if we benchmark NCAP, its not only Go & Swift but many Indian spec cars fail.
Unfortunately, India has no crash test standards. As one distinguished member mentioned a few pages ago, if Maruti Omni passes those tests, we need to wonder what are the standards of the test.

The statement from Maruti is misleading average Indian buyers into buying unsafe cars with confidence. We expect much better from the country's No. 1 manufacturer.

Regards.

Last edited by saket77 : 7th November 2014 at 13:49.
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Old 7th November 2014, 13:35   #378
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

Hey I am not aware that ARAI conducts any type of crash test on cars currently. I browsed their site and the came upon https://www.araiindia.com/facilities...ive_safety.asp where there is a mention of :

- Facility for Offset frontal crash test as per ECE R94/AIS-98
- Side impact Test as per ECE R95/AIS 99
- Rear impact test as per ECE R32/AIS 101

Are these tests actually carried on all cars before they can be sold in India?
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Old 7th November 2014, 13:55   #379
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

Here are low speed crash tests of these cars which are relevant in Indian context, watch these also and see the difference in damage severity in these cars at speed of around 15km/hr:

Swift:




Polo:





On the contrary, Polo based sedan Vento's rear portion doesn't perform like Polo in the low speed crash test:




Ecosport:



These tests are not meant to asses the safety of the occupants during high speed crash, rather these are meant to see how expensive the car will be on pocket to repair after crashes while during routine city driving conditions.

Last edited by tbppjpr : 7th November 2014 at 14:05.
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Old 7th November 2014, 14:00   #380
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slamnos View Post
Hi Folks, I think we are missing on a key point here, NCAP is not the regulatory authority in India and this is not tested as per Indian standards.

All our vehicles fully pass the ARAI tests and the standards are set by Government.

And also if we benchmark NCAP, its not only Go & Swift but many Indian spec cars fail.
We know that they will fail but they won't disintegrate like Maruti's. And do they put a disclaimer saying that Indian Swift is not the same as the international Swift?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbppjpr View Post
Here are low speed crash tests of these cars which are relevant in Indian context, watch these also and see the difference in damage severity in these cars at speed of around 15km/hr:

These tests are not meant to asses the safety of the occupants during high speed crash, rather these are meant to see how expensive the car will be on pocket to repair after crashes while during routine city driving conditions.
That is staggering especially the rear end crash test at 15 kmph! The amount of damage on the Swift at such a low speed is staggering. Polo is comparison in almost unhurt!

Last edited by suhaas307 : 7th November 2014 at 14:38. Reason: Merging consecutive posts. Please use the EDIT / QUOTE+ functions within 30 minutes of posting henceforth.
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Old 7th November 2014, 14:27   #381
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

Quote:
Originally Posted by S_U_N View Post
Those who would like to reach out to the VP of marketing who has defined safe speeds for India, may do so via facebook https://www.facebook.com/manohar.bhat

Those who would like to vent their anger at Maruti, please do so here: https://twitter.com/Maruti_Corp
Thanks! Wish we could lay our hands on the social networking details for Nissan too

Quote:
Originally Posted by columbus View Post
It is no surprise that Swift and the Datsun Go failed the test. Whats dissapointing is the way Maruti chose to dismiss the issue. The crash test was done at 64 kmph which according to Shri Manohar (VP marketing Maruti) is a very high speed not practical on indian roads. My two cents :

1. The crash test at 64 kmph is equivalent to a crash of two vehicles coming in opposite direction at 32 kmph. The relative velocity of a vehicle with respect to other is 32 + 32 = 64 kmph. Could someone please clear Mr Manohar's basic physics of relative velocity and apprise him that India does not has moonscape roads where their cars cannot even achieve speeds of 32 kmph.

2. The assembly line of the Swift which is exported is different than what is sold in India. Would someone from Maruti please elaborate what hanky panky is done to the car on the export version line to make it suitable for export markets.

3. Could someone from Maruti tell me why my life is cheaper than a european life. Or perhaps Suzuki sans sitting in japan think that we are more than a billion people so a few of us loosing our lives would only reduce pressure on our country's already limited resources.

4. I dont't know why our government wants to setup an independent crash test fascility. It takes years for a fascility to come to certain standard. The initial 5 years are just a learning period for the fascility.
The modern expressways made in India are surely world class standards where speeds equivalent to European highways can be achieved. So why not simply adopt Euro safety standards and make it mandatory to get the car Euro NCAP certified. I do not know about others but me would take the Indian NCAP crash test rating with a pinch of salt given the chalta hai attitude in our system.

I am sure most of the cars sold in our market will fail the crash tests be it with or without Air Bags. Till the time the consumer is made aware of importance of safety the car manufacturers will be laughing their way to the bank.
+1 - Me thinks we should post this on FB and twitter on the MSIL threads - not sure how much they take heed, but atleast, it would go some way in spreading this frustration

Quote:
Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
That is staggering especially the rear end crash test at 15 kmph! The amount of damage on the Swift at such a low speed is staggering. Polo is comparison in almost unhurt!
Quote:
Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
That is staggering especially the rear end crash test at 15 kmph! The amount of damage on the Swift at such a low speed is staggering. Polo is comparison in almost unhurt!
Well, as they say, 'see it to believe it' or more appropriately, 'experience it to believe it'; I am sure there are enough Swift (myself included, unfortunately) and Polo owners who can attest to this info. An otherwise 'minor' rear ended Swift is much difficult to digest & repair than a Polo.

Cheers!
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Old 7th November 2014, 14:35   #382
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

Some year back, Maruti's chief made a statement about the 800 being as safe as a Mercedes. I guess he must have Princess Diana in mind.

Recently the Economist had an article on Japanese 2nd tier makers such as Mitsubishi, Suzuki, Mazda, Daihatsu, etc. While it was balanced, it also indicated that these people are really struggling to get enough volumes to invest in technology and especially newer technology related to safety, efficiency.
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Old 7th November 2014, 14:53   #383
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
......The Indian Swift has deformation in or above A-pillar.........

3) Similar is story for i10. The i10 in EU has less A-pillar deformation than the Indian built. Again, poor quality dished out to Indians.
..........
4) Datsun GO and Swift Scoring 0 stars. The images indicate that GO has a structure worst than Alto 800. The deformation in GO is horrible, so much so that Airbags wont help........
Hello Aaggoswami,

I too spent yesterday night on my smartphone and WiFi seeing multiple NCAP and crashtest videos available on Youtube. My observations were similar - I was absolutely horrified that the DatsunGO had so much damage being B Pillar, nearing C pillar. It is a shame that the model even made it to India and our ARAI and CMRV ( all & whatever abbreviations responsible to launch a car in India) let it so.

Agreed no real life accident will be so easy like a scientific-crash-test, no accident in India is against a brick wall - frontal - center to driveroutside impact. I cannot imagine how a datsun will even fare in a real Indian accident, typical 80-100Kmph, on highway, slam behing a truck with no rear crash bar! Yikes!

Pity those poor souls who spent their hard earned money on this tin can! This car is ON PAR with all the olden days chinese car crash test videos.
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Old 7th November 2014, 15:35   #384
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

[quote=saket77; As one distinguished member mentioned a few pages ago, if Maruti Omni passes those tests, we need to wonder what are the standards of the test.
Regards.[/QUOTE]

Neither has OMNI passed this test, confirmed with Industry sources.
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Old 7th November 2014, 15:41   #385
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

Quote:
Neither has OMNI passed this test, confirmed with Industry sources.
You did not get the point what I was trying to convey. It was in context of MSIL's statement:

"All our cars meet the highest safety standards set by the Indian government"

...which means that Omni (Maruti Product) too passes the 'highest safety standards' set by Indian Govt. And if it does, you can yourself judge the standards of this test.
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Old 7th November 2014, 16:27   #386
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

A couple months back, my Polo hit a Maruti Ertiga. Speed must have been around 20kmph. The Polo ended up with a hole where the tow hook cover was.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...-donts-38.html (VW Polo - Maintenance and Service cost and dos/don'ts)

The Ertiga was hit in the portion just before the rear wheel arch. What was shocking to see was the bend in the wheel arch which is supposed to be very strong as it is a part of the rigid chassis.

Shows how weak the body is. One shudders to think that the Ertiga is positioned as a MUV people carrier to hold 7. Won't the weight of all 7 people make it perform a lot worse since it is basically an extended version of the Swift ?.

If Swift is dangerous, then a loaded Ertiga is a lot worse.
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Old 7th November 2014, 17:17   #387
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by vivriti View Post
A couple months back, my Polo hit a Maruti Ertiga. Speed must have been around 20kmph. The Polo ended up with a hole where the tow hook cover was.
A somewhat similar incident took place with my Punto a few months back. It was the day after heavy windstorms damaged transmitters of some radio channels and I was trying to change/tune radio channel. My attention got diverted and the Ertiga in front braked suddenly due to a rumble strip - the road was new to me & it was night, so didn't know the placement of the rumble strip there. I must be doing around 60 kms, as I have a speed limit buzzer set at 75 kmph and the buzzer hadn't come on. By the time I looked up and reacted by braking, I rear ended the Ertiga at maybe around 40 kmph. Damages as follows (Note: The Ertiga had a metal bar to protect the rear bumper).
Attached Thumbnails
Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...-ertigarearended.jpg  

Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...-puntofrontalimpact.jpg  

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Old 7th November 2014, 17:19   #388
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by tbppjpr View Post
These tests are not meant to asses the safety of the occupants during high speed crash, rather these are meant to see how expensive the car will be on pocket to repair after crashes while during routine city driving conditions.
It is shocking to see the rear of Swift crumple like that at such a slow speed impact. The boot is gone, bumper, lights and even the rear fender has wrinkles at two places. The polo in comparison feels like a tank, absolutely no damage on Polo. And if am right, this is not the Indian Swift, shudder to think what would happen to the indian manufactured Swift.

Have driven my friend's 2014 Swift ZDi and the car is a great handler with power on tap but the build is extremely light and it is not confidence inspiring pushing it above 100. Shudder to think what would happen to rear seat occupants at a rear end impact on high speeds coupled with the fact that most Swift owners drive above 100-120 on highways, criss crossing like crazy.
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Old 7th November 2014, 17:32   #389
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

Do people in India care about NCAP tests? 90% of them wouldn't. At the end of the day for majority, Datsun GO or Alto is much safer than Luna, Kinetic Honda and other two wheelers from where they generally upgrade which is not the case in West.

In our country cost plays a significant role in most of the middle class purchases (up-to and including C segment). Just educating the people about the safety features alone will not change this scenario. Government must play an active role in promoting this by rewarding the car companies and end users who go for safe cars by means of lower taxes and other subsidies.
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Old 7th November 2014, 17:57   #390
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by kiranknair View Post
... promoting this by rewarding the car companies and end users who go for safe cars by means of lower taxes and other subsidies.
I'm sorry but I do not agree to the last point. Why do we need rewards and subsidies from government to look after our own life? Thats insane. "Come on man, you should live. Here, I'll give you airbag for free". WHY? If one wants to buy a car, he/she should know the expenses and make the calculated decision to purchase.

Who pays the subsidy anyway? Taxpayers like us. Government doesn't create money out of thin air at all. So why should I be paying for the airbags of someone else when I pay plenty of income tax and some businessman who may even own an Audi and doesn't pay tax thanks to the weird financial rules and models? Its just like diesel subsidy. One pays for the better of all others. Makes no sense. Especially not when the money can be used for much more important causes like feeding the hungry in a country like India.

Government should be making rules and directives. Thats it. An individual has to have the brains to look after own life. If knowing everything, one decides to buy a car without safety features - thats individual choice. If god forbid a mishap happens and there is a fatality - that is natural selection.

Anyway, we should be under no illusion with this latest rule either. The airbags won't be coming for free. Nothing does. Everyone makes money & the consumer pays for it. However this is one of the rare cases, where the money spent will be for a cause worth it. Life!

Last edited by Reinhard : 7th November 2014 at 18:00.
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