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Old 7th November 2014, 17:59   #391
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by kiranknair View Post
Just educating the people about the safety features alone will not change this scenario. Government must play an active role in promoting this by rewarding the car companies and end users who go for safe cars by means of lower taxes and other subsidies.
In reality its the opposite of what you have said is effective. If people of India would have been educated enough, we didn't have to rely on "Clean India Campaign" to clean dirty surrounding near us because we wouldn't have made the surroundings so dirty in first place.

Spend as much as money and efforts you want, you can't make India clean like western countries until we stop making dirty our country in first place.

Govt alone can't do much, they can't change mindset of people, rather people can change the governments. Govt. is also chosen by us and the people serving in Govt are also from us. Its our moral values and education level which has gone way too much down the line.

Its we who are responsible that Maruti is selling half of total cars sold in India and rest of half are being sold by rest of the manufacturers. It could have been otherwise, Maruti might have been left with limited share of 4-5% in India!

Sometimes I laugh when people give funny logics behind choosing Maruti like reliability, cheap running cost, FE etc etc, in reality none of the logic is true. Rather Maruti service stations do very unprofessional kind of job while servicing vehicles. You will see the AC filter, air filter and fuel filter being refitted after bare cleaning instead of complete replacement only at workshop of Maruti or likes. I have also lived fare bit of life with Maruti and other cars and saying from own experience.

Last edited by tbppjpr : 7th November 2014 at 18:06.
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Old 7th November 2014, 17:59   #392
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

I have read/seen somewhere that the cost for an airbag for a manufacture is around 40$. So a passenger and driver airbag would collectively cost around 80$ for the manufacturer. Everyone is concerned about safety but the problem is manufacturers making safety features available only to top variants which costs a hefty amount above base variants. This is really a problem of Indian law IMO. For manufacturers, it's business and nothing else. So it's the govt. that should make safety features mandatory in all variants of a vehicle.
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Old 7th November 2014, 18:05   #393
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

India's population has lots of money which many of these companies simply wish to harvest, while the buyers only care of the cost. Combining the two, we have lots of cars with the important elements missing.

We're surely being taken for a ride!
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Old 7th November 2014, 18:52   #394
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Default Re: Global NCAP Asks For Withdrawal of Datsun Go From India

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Funny how heightened sentiments can change opinions. Let a fresh DSG failure or after sales horror story about a Skoda/VW brand start and see how people will start praising MSIL and the likes again.
I have a Swift. But when it came to me for buying a new car, I bought a Punto. Even before all this testings and all came to light, I suggested my friend to pick a Vento over City. Have always maintained that the best Petrol Hatch as per me is Polo Tsi. So moving away from Maruti is not new to me. I bought a Fiat not for its reliability, but despite it not being as reliable as a Maruti. Lets just say that I value a few things slightly more than reliability.

What these tests have done, is just reinstate what I always thought.


@Zenren, its just that most probably I will be upgrading to a sedan next and it is likely to be a Vento or may be Linea Tjet as of now.
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Old 7th November 2014, 18:56   #395
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

This post of mine could actually belong to the official jokes thread - because the current Indian legal crash test requirements are an absolute joke!

Many car company boffins and SIAM auto lobby honchos are trying to defend the absolutely shocking performance of Indian cars on standardised international crash tests like NCAP. They say all Indian cars meet the "stringent" and "tough" crash safety norms prescribed by the Indian government till now, and hence the cars that failed so miserably on a test like the G-NCAP should be classified as "safe" or "safe enough for Indian roads".

Presenting to you then, an idea of the absolutely "tough" and "extreme" legal frontal crash safety requirement as prescribed by the Indian government:



Please note that this seems to be the current front crash safety requirement for a small commercial vehicle, which the Mahindra Maxximo passes with flying colours. This seems to be an internal test(?) by Mahindra to see if the Maxximo meets the Indian crash worthiness regulations, going by the cheers and jubilation after the test.

Based on this test, we can easily imagine how "tough" and "stringent" the Indian legal minimum crash worthiness requirements are for passenger cars. Is it any wonder that each and every passenger vehicle on sale in India now easily meets and even exceeds the Indian crash safety regulations?

Last edited by RSR : 7th November 2014 at 18:58.
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Old 7th November 2014, 19:54   #396
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by Reinhard View Post
I'm sorry but I do not agree to the last point. Why do we need rewards and subsidies from government to look after our own life? Thats insane. "Come on man, you should live. Here, I'll give you airbag for free". WHY? If one wants to buy a car, he/she should know the expenses and make the calculated decision to purchase.

Who pays the subsidy anyway? Taxpayers like us. Government doesn't create money out of thin air at all. So why should I be paying for the airbags of someone else when I pay plenty of income tax and some businessman who may even own an Audi and doesn't pay tax thanks to the weird financial rules and models? Its just like diesel subsidy. One pays for the better of all others. Makes no sense. Especially not when the money can be used for much more important causes like feeding the hungry in a country like India.

Government should be making rules and directives. Thats it. An individual has to have the brains to look after own life. If knowing everything, one decides to buy a car without safety features - thats individual choice. If god forbid a mishap happens and there is a fatality - that is natural selection.

Anyway, we should be under no illusion with this latest rule either. The airbags won't be coming for free. Nothing does. Everyone makes money & the consumer pays for it. However this is one of the rare cases, where the money spent will be for a cause worth it. Life!
You crack me up. Our aim here is not to take revenge against anyone who buys a car without safety features, it is to make the roads safer.

What I believe you fail to realise is that post these implementations, the price of a car is bound to increase. I believe the main cost increase would not be due to the addition of safety features like Airbags and ABS, but due to modifications that will have to be made to certain cars to make the structure safe.

So, say the alto costs ~3 lakh. This price might go up to 3.5-4 lakh after the additions. Remember this this is 20 to 30% of the cars price. Buyers in this category would be unable to afford the car and would instead buy a pulsar.

Did this help the government?- No. The consumer?- No.

Remember, the Auto sector is a major employer in India, and the government certainly doesn't want the demand to fall.
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Old 7th November 2014, 20:26   #397
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

After reading all the thoughts shared by members and going through details published by GNCAP, I related it to an incident which happened with a colleague of mine. He was driving a Swift (Without the airbags) and met with an accident involving head on collision with a trailer. All passengers managed to escape the accident without any fatality barring few injuries. My colleague who was in the driver's seat suffered from a broken hip joint and fractures in rib cage. Damages are as per following details:

1. Impact traveled through the cabin, dash and components (including steering wheel) moved inside the cabin.
2. Driver's Seat sheered of from the cabin and pushed back into the legs of rear passenger.
3. Car was a total loss.

Now relating this to the structural instability, my colleague was lucky enough that the seat sheared off else god knows what might have happened.
Till date he can not walk straight and needs a cane.
Since I drive a lot on highways, I witness after math of rash driving more than an average traveler. These accidents are mostly the result of risky overtaking maneuvers, off the hook driving by bus drivers (People hailing from Punjab will know what I am talking about) and in general disregard to traffic rules and guidelines. And since most of the vehicles on road are from one manufacturer thus you get to witness the outcome for one particular manufacturer (rather one particular vehicle). Though no two collisions are alike and since you do not witness them happening, there is no way to know what happened unless you get down to inspect and go in the details, but in most of the cases I find that cabin (of one particular manufacturer's vehicles) is terribly deformed and one ends in hoping that every one escaped with only minor injuries.
Conclusion - I ended up resenting these vehicles and have never recommended to anyone. In today's scenario, one's own safety is not in one's own hands any more. Even if you are driving in your own lane, way below the top speed limit for the stretch taking every precaution written in the book, all goes in vain when one idiot does not have patience to overtake when the road is empty, and to top it all if you are driving in a vehicle whose structure will give at the first sign of impact and cave around you then it will take a lot more than prayer to save you.
As for quality of construction, I might have missed it in earlier discussions, but vehicles from one other manufacture have taken a beating in build quality (and not just cabin feel and plastic quality) - HONDA. I have seen a huge dent in the body of new gen Honda vehicles just because gravel bounced off from under the tires of a heavy vehicle. wonder what gauge sheet metal is being used and what will happen in case of lateral impact.
Lets hope that government will take a right decision to enforce safety regulations, Manufactures and industry put in place the necessary changes and last but not the least - the consumer stops following herd mentality and goes further than LED DRLs, Shiny Alloys, Loud music system and KITNA DETI HAI.
Note - No offence meant to any individual's choice.
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Old 7th November 2014, 20:26   #398
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by prakhar1998 View Post
You crack me up. Our aim here is not to take revenge against anyone who buys a car without safety features, it is to make the roads safer.

What I believe you fail to realise is that post these implementations, the price of a car is bound to increase. I believe the main cost increase would not be due to the addition of safety features like Airbags and ABS, but due to modifications that will have to be made to certain cars to make the structure safe.

So, say the alto costs ~3 lakh. This price might go up to 3.5-4 lakh after the additions. Remember this this is 20 to 30% of the cars price. Buyers in this category would be unable to afford the car and would instead buy a pulsar.

Did this help the government?- No. The consumer?- No.

Remember, the Auto sector is a major employer in India, and the government certainly doesn't want the demand to fall.
The impact will be marginal. First of all by 2017 incomes would have increased by at least 30% and affordability would be higher as more people move up towards the middle class. Secondly, if we take a look at past 5-10 years, car prices have increased quite a bit every few years and people have still managed to buy cars. At least this increase would be for a good cause.
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Old 7th November 2014, 20:59   #399
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Originally Posted by prakhar1998 View Post
You crack me up. Our aim here is not to take revenge against anyone who buys a car without safety features, it is to make the roads safer.

What I believe you fail to realise is that post these implementations, the price of a car is bound to increase.
Perhaps you didn't read my post till the end. I request you to read the last part.
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Originally Posted by prakhar1998 View Post
I believe the main cost increase would not be due to the addition of safety features like Airbags and ABS, but due to modifications that will have to be made to certain cars to make the structure safe.

So, say the alto costs ~3 lakh. This price might go up to 3.5-4 lakh after the additions. Remember this this is 20 to 30% of the cars price. Buyers in this category would be unable to afford the car and would instead buy a pulsar.

Did this help the government?- No. The consumer?- No.

Remember, the Auto sector is a major employer in India, and the government certainly doesn't want the demand to fall.
So if I understand correctly, what you are suggesting is, my tax money should be used to pay the profit making auto companies so that someone can buy an Alto instead of a Pulsar? Sorry sir. .

I can very much counter it with similar argument. Let's say I don't want a car. But some x rs or say 50ps of my income tax are being used to fit airbags in someone's Alto. Is that fair? Absolutely not.

If the government is to worry so much about our life to give free airbag in a luxury like car - I'll want medicines free too my friend.

The only solution could be for auto makers to add these without adding their profit. But then, we are a capitalist economy and profit always has to happen. So yes the prices will go up. And yes the consumer has to bear it.

Last edited by Reinhard : 7th November 2014 at 21:07.
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Old 7th November 2014, 21:40   #400
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

Let me ask a doubt (don't know if it has been discussed earlier):

Were the technical representatives of these manufacturers present during testing?

Since vehicles from competing manufacturers were tested by a body with no actual legal authority (unlike ARAI which is accountable to the public), were the technical representatives of the competitors allowed to observe these tests to see if the cars were tweaked?
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Old 7th November 2014, 21:43   #401
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by Yeldo View Post
Let me ask a doubt (don't know if it has been discussed earlier):

Were the technical representatives of these manufacturers present during testing?

Since vehicles from competing manufacturers were tested by a body with no actual legal authority (unlike ARAI which is accountable to the public), were the technical representatives of the competitors allowed to observe these tests to see if the cars were tweaked?
ha..ha...Now we are trying to hide behind technicalities. We can wake up a person who is sleeping. But we cannot wake up some one who acts as if he is asleep. Indian market is like that!
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Old 7th November 2014, 21:51   #402
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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ha..ha...Now we are trying to hide behind technicalities. We can wake up a person who is sleeping. But we cannot wake up some one who acts as if he is asleep. Indian market is like that!
I asked a doubt. I do not see anything funny in what I said. And I did not ask that question to justify any manufacturer either.

And yes, I live in the Indian market for sure.
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Old 7th November 2014, 22:13   #403
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by Yeldo View Post
Let me ask a doubt (don't know if it has been discussed earlier):

Were the technical representatives of these manufacturers present during testing?

Since vehicles from competing manufacturers were tested by a body with no actual legal authority (unlike ARAI which is accountable to the public), were the technical representatives of the competitors allowed to observe these tests to see if the cars were tweaked?
You'll find the answer to your first question in the following video starting from ~ 8:10 onwards - if all NCAP tests are carried out in the same manner, of course.



As for the second question - I really don't know if representatives from competing manufacturers are invited to a car's NCAP test, though.

Last edited by RSR : 7th November 2014 at 22:22.
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Old 7th November 2014, 22:18   #404
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

My 2 cents on incremental cost of airbags: today a 7 year SBI car loan EMI is 1673 per lakh. For 50k etc for airbags, it will be approx 850 Rs per month. I'm sure this is not an amount to comprise your life for.
Secondly SIAM has lost all respect in my eyes with their statements and I will never believe any of their claims in future.
I respect Volkswagen that they took a stand with the Polo by offering it only with airbags.
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Old 7th November 2014, 22:23   #405
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by RSR View Post

You'll find the answer to your first question in the following video starting from ~ 8:10 onwards - if all NCAP tests are carried out in the same manner, of course.

I don't know if representatives from competing manufacturers are invited to a car's NCAP test, though.
That answeres my question. A technician / observer from Suzuki was indeed present during the test.

And that rules out any challenge towards the neutrality of the test results. Thank You!

Last edited by Yeldo : 7th November 2014 at 22:24.
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