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Old 3rd November 2014, 13:40   #31
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

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Originally Posted by coolboy007 View Post
how much did the Polo get?

Polo secured a 4-Star safety rating for adult occupant protection, and three-star rating for child protection in the crash test.

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Old 3rd November 2014, 13:41   #32
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by karanraheja View Post
See this interview by Maruti Chairman. I would like to ask him how much more would it cost to add Airbag and ABS. Wonder how he got such a reputed post.
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Maruti Chairman R C Bhargava had in an earlier interview to The Indian Express said, "We will start making cars that fulfil global safety standards. Then a large number of people will not be able to buy those expensive cars and will have to make do with two-wheelers. What is safer for him? Will his family be safer on a two-wheeler or a car that does not meet those high standards of safety? Our cars today meet Indian standards, which are based on European standards. You want even higher standards? At whose cost will it be?"
It's an entirely wrong line of thought by a reputed manufacturer to say that their cars are safer alternative to two-wheelers. For example, no one who plans to use a motorbike for family commute can afford Swift even in LXi trim. Even if the chairman is talking about Alto 800 or K10, why provide such an enormous power in the car (especially when they are alternatives to a scooter or motorbike) and then skimp on the safety features? They might as well downsize the engine and put safety features and sell at the same price. When a car is an alternative to motorbike, the car doesn't need to have awesome pickup and loads of power anyway. It's good enough for users if the car returns half as many KMPL as bike, goes at the same pace, and costs only twice as much on maintenance!

EDIT: recently, I happened to see a current generation Swift without its front bumper at a local garage. I was shocked to see two thin strips of metal across the radiator. That's the actual front bumper, a part of the structure, that absorbs all impact (the plastic one seen by everyone is just a dummy to make the car look pleasing). Even Palio, which I own, has much stronger impact-absorbing bumper even though the design is more than 15 years old. And in a Punto, I have seen a similar one too. I am pretty sure Polo and its family, as well as Fiesta and its family, have similar structure.

If I had my phone with me then, I'd have clicked a photo of that Swift. But that picture of a weak structure is imprinted in my memory. Whenever someone asks me my opinion on Swift, I describe it.

Last edited by rohanjf : 3rd November 2014 at 13:53.
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Old 3rd November 2014, 13:45   #33
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

From the same report:
“There is a draft bill on road safety that has been prepared by the NDA government, and set to Parliament. Sharing details of the new bill with NDTV, the Road Transport Ministry says it proposes the setting up of an India NCAP and adoption of safety standards that will mirror what's currently mandated in Western Europe.”

That’s a positive step! I welcome it!!
“PS: All manufacturers whose cars are crash tested are always informed and invited to witness the test. We sought reactions from both Maruti Suzuki and Datsun. While Maruti has offered us no comment/statement, Nissan India which owns Datsun has told NDTV: Automotive regulation standards in fast-growing countries are constantly evolving and as a global manufacturer, we are willing to adopt as well as help evolve standards in vehicular safety”

Maruti: Arrogance or devil may care attitude?
Nissan: What do you mean by willing to adopt? Why can’t you do it in the first place? You are not doing anybody a favour over here.
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Old 3rd November 2014, 13:53   #34
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

http://firstbiz.firstpost.com/corpor...-q4-41604.html
Going back to this link, the 1-1-1 savings that Maruti does on a year-year basis.
So, when the components are losing their weight, they are for sure losing their durability and strength.

Wonder if the first Swift was NCAP tested, and the later variants that were manufactured a few months later had a weight reduction of 3.5%, who would have asked the same car to be tested again.

I had a clear experience of this when we bought the second Alto. A 2007 Alto vs 2008 Alto. The door thud sounded so different. So was the cushion comfort of the seats. And the clutch shudder started as low as 18K Kms.
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Old 3rd November 2014, 13:53   #35
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Guys, any car without airbags will receive only a ZERO rating in the crash tests. Why are we so surprised here?

Not only Swift, even the Ciaz V variants will get zero ratings. Hyundai Elite i20, Xcent and Grand i10 base variants will get zero ratings, same with TATA Zest, Mahindra Scorpio or whatever!

High time we make a pledge to only buy or recommend a car with Airbags (and ABS) IMO.
Because not only the active safety features aren't even optional across the range, the structural integrity has been compromised too. Even with air bags and abs, the car will score only 3 stars.
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Old 3rd November 2014, 13:54   #36
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

India is a poorer country in terms of per capital income, hence will logically favor lower cost vehicle. But that does not give manufacturer a reason to justify zero safety mechanism with a lower cost proposition, saying "this is what people want". Given the crime and lawlessness on our streets, I also want to carry a gun wherever I go, but that does not mean I should get it.

The onus is really on the government. Like someone said, they should just adopt Euro NCAP and make it compulsory for manufacturers to adhere to basic minimum criteria. If all of them do, the cost of base vehicles will rise proportionately across segments and manufacturers and no one will be at a disadvantage. Yes, the vehicle may become dearer for our poorer countrymen, but isn't it better that they wait for a few years, save a little more and get a safe model rather than buying a sub-standard product which may get them (and others) killed !

Last edited by Vitalstatistiks : 3rd November 2014 at 13:56. Reason: Typo removed
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Old 3rd November 2014, 13:54   #37
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by rohanjf View Post
It's an entirely wrong line of thought by a reputed manufacturer to say that their cars are safer alternative to two-wheelers. For example, no one who plans to use a motorbike for family commute can afford Swift even in LXi trim. Even if the chairman is talking about Alto 800 or K10, why provide such an enormous power in the car (especially when they are alternatives to a scooter or motorbike) and then skimp on the safety features? They might as well downsize the engine and put safety features and sell at the same price. When a car is an alternative to motorbike, the car doesn't need to have awesome pickup and loads of power anyway. It's good enough for users if the car returns half as many KMPL as bike, goes at the same pace, and costs only twice as much on maintenance!
A basic car, at any time, is a far safer option than a 2-wheeler. A person driving a vehicle, should be aware of the capacities and limitations of the vehicle. He is not supposed to drive a basic car having no safety features at a high speed.

But there should be an optional kit with all safety features available even in base trim with an extra cost. Whoever give priority to safety, can pay and opt for it.
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Old 3rd November 2014, 13:58   #38
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
Because not only the active safety features aren't even optional across the range, the structural integrity has been compromised too. Even with air bags and abs, the car will score only 3 stars.
That point I understand, my friend. My reaction is only to the few members who are shocked to see a 'zero' rating every time such a thread on Indian car pops up.

My point is - it was always expected to score a zero. And we should treat it as such! We should highlight to anybody who plans to buy a base variant of these cars that they are putting their life at risk. That they are buying something that scores a zero in crash ratings. We dont need to wait for NCAP to tell that to us.
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Old 3rd November 2014, 14:01   #39
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by k_ajay View Post
Will be interesting to see what Maruti backers will bring to the table as arguments. Most likely an attack on other brands offering no better, uh?




You are right. There will be no stopping of people buying the India car. But why blame Maruti alone for this? Much of the blame needs to be put on those people who choose to buy the unsafe vehicle. Why would Maruti spend more when people are happy with what is offered.

I'm positive a few learned gents will now bring arguments such as 'what else can be buy', 'this is more safer than a 4 wheeler' and 'what can the common man do'.. If there is an unsafe car, one shouldn't opt for it. Period!
Oh please!! Give me a break!! NCAP standards are as manipulatable just as mobile phone benchmark tests are. An NCAP five star rated car wont necessarily save your life in an accident. I do these kinds of CAE analysis and simulations day in and day out as a part of my job working with OE manufacturers.
I am not defending any maker but the real world performance of any car in a given segment is as we say in Hindi "19-20".
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Old 3rd November 2014, 14:05   #40
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

I agree with most of the previous comments.
There is no point in pointing fingers. Everyone from consumer to manufacturer to government is equally responsible. What we need is an awareness campaign and a policy change. As long as common man is not aware of the safety benefits of ABS and airbags, there's no point in blaming him. Of the 20,000 units of dezire sold every month I'm sure more than 15000 if not more are lxx and vxx. Who can we really blame for that?

We need a policy change here. A strong regulatory body to ensure that these manufacturers don't kill innocents while meeting quarterly targets.

Make safety features available on basic models, let the prices go up uniformly for all manufacturers. The consumer should not have an option to buy a car which doesn't offer ABS, airbags and seat belt reminder.

Make it mandatory that all cars should undergo safety testing and a car that does not meet these minimum requirements be allowed to ply on Indian roads. Safety rating should be mandatorily be displayed on websites and brouchers and showrooms. Even a warning like in cigarette packets can be used. "Statutory warning: The car you're about to drive is absolute crap and may end up killing you".

Will all this be enough? Probably no. We need better roads, tougher rules, proper driving tests and schools etc But the least we can hope for is this. Government should stop this luke warm approach to passenger safety. This is nothing short of criminal negligence and Maruti chairman should be ashamed of himself.

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Old 3rd November 2014, 14:05   #41
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
High time we make a pledge to only buy or recommend a car with Airbags (and ABS) IMO.
Beg to differ just on this point. This will just make people spend more for every unwanted feature in the higher variants. The ideal solution will be to make the basic safety measures (ABS + 2 airbags) mandatory and then buyers will be free to chose the variants based on other parameters (including premium safety features like six or more air bags, traction control, electronic stability control etc.)
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Old 3rd November 2014, 14:43   #42
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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I've only felt the need for ABS once in all these years and that too under distress braking from 140 to 0.
With absolutely no offense intended to the poster, this is the kind of ignorance that manufacturers like MS take advantage of. ABS doesn't have anything to do with the speed you are braking from. If your wheels lock when you brake from any speed, you lose the ability to steer the car - and that can be the difference between life and death. Not yours, but the biker or pedestrian whom you are unable to steer away from.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carophilic View Post
Oh please!! Give me a break!! NCAP standards are as manipulatable just as mobile phone benchmark tests are. An NCAP five star rated car wont necessarily save your life in an accident. I do these kinds of CAE analysis and simulations day in and day out as a part of my job working with OE manufacturers.
I am not defending any maker but the real world performance of any car in a given segment is as we say in Hindi "19-20".
You are not serious! It is wrong to compare automobile crash tests and mobile phone benchmark tests, because the former is about safety and the latter about performance. And no one can guarantee that you will survive an accident. A car manufacturer can only increase the probability of survival by incorporating safety kit. "19-20"? If a Polo Comfortline (with ABS and airbags) and a Swift VXi (with hope and a prayer) are involved in the exact same kind of serious accident, which car would you rather be in?

Regarding the Maruti chairman's argument, the exact same line of reasoning was offered to me here on this forum some time ago, namely that an Alto is safer than a bike. I didn't know what to say after that.

Leave aside offering safety kit as optional on all variants (which is the least it should be doing IMO), it is shocking to hear that they have reduced the structural integrity, apparently in order to make it more affordable for the Indian market. Following their twisted logic, the "rich" customers will get the top variant. The "poor" customers, alas for them, will die. But that is alright. I guess dying in a car accident is preferable to dying in a bike accident.

I recently called MS the most shameless car manufacturer in India when it comes to safety, and my words have been borne out by these test results...

Last edited by TheLizardKing : 3rd November 2014 at 14:57. Reason: Adding reply to Carophilic
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Old 3rd November 2014, 14:52   #43
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

The Indian Maruti Suzuki Swift scored 0 in its crash test results.

So the writing is on the wall : If you crash in a Maruti Suzuki Swift (L/V variant) while moving at any more than 64kmph, the driver is almost certain to die.

Even WITH the Airbags it scores just 3 stars. That too with the Latin American version (country with stricter safety laws), NOT the Indian version.

Scary. Sad. Shameful.

( N.B. : You may feel I'm going overboard, but seriously, ask the people who've lost their near & dear ones in a car crash & you'll understand why auto companies deserve to be thrashed when proved to be "not so responsible".)

The Swift + Dzire sells almost 4 Lakh units per annum in the Indian market. I guess most of which are the Vxi / Vdi variant (without the Airbags).

I find it quite intriguing as to why Maruti, of all car makers, didn't bother to tell us/advertise, that not having airbags can be deadly in a crash above 64kmph!? They certainly had the budget, they had the consumer confidence but they just didn't care.

Rather unbecoming of a "Leading car brand" to not sell us safe cars. Doesn't it show that they are not doing business in good faith towards consumers? Sadly there are no legal ramifications of such business practices.

Looking at how India was the LAST place that it launched the 'Updated' Swift, the discrimination is quite apparent IMO. Its time we woke up and realised the reality of the Indian Auto Market.

I don't understand how it became the Indian "Hot hatch", with a measly 75hp diesel engine, was it that sudden jerk due to abrupt turbo boost that misled people to believe so?

Anyway at this point I would urge our reviewers to please update the crash test ratings on ALL the respective cars Official Reviews.

Dear Mods : Apologies if you'll feel I've overstepped limits with the criticism, please feel free to edit/discard the post. Rgds.

Last edited by GrammarNazi : 3rd November 2014 at 15:22.
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Old 3rd November 2014, 14:56   #44
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

More and more Indians preferring vehicles with a higher fuel efficiency, also has a major role to play. One of the foremost questions asked by Indians is "kitna deti hai" - pun intended as per the Maurti's advertising campaign. Most manufacture are making cars lighter in every subsequent iteration, without us having any knowledge of compromises (if any) made in terms of structural rigidity or safety in general. Fuel efficiency is important, but should not be at the expense of safety, but via advancement in technology.

In fact I also am in a way guilty of seeking value for money while buying a vehicle. Though I did keep safety also in mind. Bought the base variant of Punto MJD in 2011, but after some research on structural integrity and comparing kerb weights of European and Indian variants. Also the Punto has, I believe, the longest bonnet amongst hatchbacks and thereby should offer a decent crumple zone. Plus even in the base variant, the rear seat has a metal sheet at the back to prevent luggage intrusion in case of a vehicle ramming from the rear - not available in any other vehicle in its class or even across segments.

Last edited by jessie007 : 3rd November 2014 at 15:11.
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Old 3rd November 2014, 15:00   #45
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Default Re: Indian Nano, Alto, Figo, i10 & Polo FAIL Global NCAP Safety Test

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Originally Posted by GrammarNazi View Post
The Indian Maruti Suzuki Swift scored 0 in its crash test results.
NDTV has uploaded the video. Here it is.

http://auto.ndtv.com/news/now-maruti...h-tests-688031

Last edited by Aditya : 4th November 2014 at 07:54. Reason: Entire post quoted
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