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Old 11th November 2014, 18:26   #541
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by srishiva View Post
Car is not given zero stars just because it lacks airbags.
With the current information available to me, I agree with you (Guilty of quoting from the first ndtv report). The regulation does not tell (at least what I could read) that airbags are mandatory. But, reading through the different tests and conditions, I understand that it is almost impossible to score a star without the use of an airbag Without the use of airbags, the driver's body absorbs too much of impact energy, thereby causing fatal injuries to the driver.
But browsing through the global NCAP site for information, I found this -"Ford Figo passed despite not having a driver airbag when the dummy’s head narrowly avoided hitting the steering wheel directly." in the UN's basic safety test. So, the Figo atleast passed the basic safety test and that is actually reassuring to an owner.

Last edited by A350XWB : 11th November 2014 at 18:28.
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Old 11th November 2014, 18:33   #542
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by coolboy007 View Post
If you can, please do. More than Swift being an unsafe car as the structure was deemed unstable during the crash test, even bigger factor is that your car neither has ABS nor Airbags. ABS is a life saver on many occasions and if that does not save, then its the airbags which save both you and your co-passenger from smashing their heads against the hard plastic.

I request every one to please get a car with abs and airbags, most of us team bhpians do go for a car which have abs and airbags and i request others to do the same. Yeah, budget is a constraint in some cases but you and your family's life is more important than a lakh or two saved in some bank or fixed deposit.
Accidents can happen to any one, its a matter of time, be prepared.

If you can, please go and get a good built 5 star rated car with abs and airbags. Drive safe
I don't understand why we are suddenly jumping to change our existing cars? We knew forever that the Japanese (especially Suzuki) cars are lighter and made to budgets and some times even kei-car specifications. Still millions are purchased since decades and used daily. It's not that all these cars are continuously threatening their owner's life. Careful driving will still work good.

Most of the owners of these cars have put a lot of hard earned money in one big leap. Its not like grocery shopping for them to change a car just after a news says their car is unsafe. In case of those who can afford it - they anyway have already purchased the costlier cars in higher trims with more safety features.

I think the news (already known) should primarily be used as a decisive factor by those who will be buying cars now onwards. So that they don't buy the car purely on the brand name and status factor blindly.
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Old 11th November 2014, 18:36   #543
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
^^^While stars do provide a way to gauge relative safety of cars, do bear in mind that no car guarantees that occupants will come out alive from any accident, even if rated 5 star.
.

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Originally Posted by Reinhard View Post
I'd say thats a knee-jerk reaction. Don't suddenly lose affection to your car. Till now you've lived happily with the same car. It hasn't changed overnight. Only your perception has changed. Just drive with care & you'll be fine.
I understand that. I still love my car. It's a superb car and gives great driving experience.

It is just that this crash test rating has got onto my nerves. well I think a long drive will help here and I shall drive more carefully now.
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Old 11th November 2014, 18:48   #544
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by A350XWB View Post
But browsing through the global NCAP site for information, I found this -"Ford Figo passed despite not having a driver airbag when the dummyís head narrowly avoided hitting the steering wheel directly." in the UN's basic safety test. So, the Figo atleast passed the basic safety test and that is actually reassuring to an owner.
Right. Stars are awarded as per the overall score the vehicle gets after passing through multiple tests like OCCUPANT PROTECTION (Frontal & Side), PEDESTRIAN PROTECTION, WHIPLASH etc. Airbags, ABS & other safety systems helps to reduce injuries thus a better score is achievable than the base model (read Indian base model without those features). But if vehicle body/structure itself is week, even the model with those safety features will get Zero rating. Thus, letís also not assume that Airbags & other safety systems will fetch stars on their own. Its team work there too

May be OT to this thread, but more information on the stars can be gathered in the attached ANCAP report of Honda City 2014 model (Australia/New Zealand). For sure, Indian Honda City will get lesser rating as seen for the same vehicles sold in India

Honda City 2014 ANCAP Rating_.pdf
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Old 11th November 2014, 19:00   #545
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by Reinhard View Post
I don't understand why we are suddenly jumping to change our existing cars? We knew forever that the Japanese (especially Suzuki) cars are lighter and made to budgets and some times
I never advocate this japanse is light and german is solid built theory, its upto the end user to choose what he wants. I have 3 europeans and 1 german car but i still like Swift, its a brilliant car to drive and if maruti makes some reinforcements to the structure, i would happily buy it despite knowing the build quality is light. Its a great car to nip around traffic.

Swift has a great resale value and if the owner has realized the importance of abs/airbags a bit late, there is no harm in choosing a car with both these safety features. That is why i added, if you can afford, please go in for a car with abs and airbags
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Old 11th November 2014, 20:31   #546
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by INJAXN View Post
I understand that. I still love my car. It's a superb car and gives great driving experience.

It is just that this crash test rating has got onto my nerves. well I think a long drive will help here and I shall drive more carefully now.
I don't think you should be doing that. As a Swift owner,I can understand the situation you are in,but I would say stick with the Swift till such time you had originally planned to use it.

Unless you have a huge budget to get a D1 or D2 segment sedan, I don't think you'll be able to buy yourself a 5 star rated car. I doubt if any of the C segment sedans sold in India are as safe as the export models.

I think 4/5 star rated car should be your next upgrade. For now,understand the limitations of your car and change driving style to suit it,i'm sure you'll do just fine.
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Old 11th November 2014, 20:40   #547
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by Aficionados View Post
But if vehicle body/structure itself is week, even the model with those safety features will get Zero rating. Thus, letís also not assume that Airbags & other safety systems will fetch stars on their own.
It is a combination of everything. A bit compromised structure with airbags might score better than a better structure without airbags. The reason being distribution of impact energy away from the occupant's body. But better structural integrity along with safety aids ensure that you fare better in an accident.
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Old 11th November 2014, 20:46   #548
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by Reinhard View Post
I don't understand why we are suddenly jumping to change our existing cars? We knew forever that the Japanese (especially Suzuki) cars are lighter and made to budgets and some times even kei-car specifications. Still millions are purchased since decades and used daily. It's not that all these cars are continuously threatening their owner's life.
We're not all suddenly jumping to change our existing cars, and we knew that Jap cars are lighter and made to budgets, but we (atleast I) did not know that they tinker with the Indian variants to make them particularly unsafe in the event of a crash. I always thought that they made modern automobiles which were relatively safe (as they had cleared crash tests).

Quote:
Careful driving will still work good.
Not really, since an accident could happen due to someone else's carelessness, and I could lose my life and those of my loved ones, because the car is inherently unsafe in a frontal collision above a particular speed (56 or 64 kmph)
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Old 11th November 2014, 21:48   #549
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

Aren't there higher chances for accidents in India than in Europe?

Our road infrastructure is so poor when compared to Europe. We are less polite and less well behaved on roads as drivers. Driver education is almost non existent. There is very poor segregation of heavy and passenger traffic in our roads. Potentially dangerous vehicles like heavy trucks are driven by people with very poor training, and even poorer civic sense. There is no system to monitor how a driving license is put to use once issued unless the holder gets into some real serious accident. The people who are supposed to enact and enforce laws- the politicians and the Police- often break all laws with startling impunity. There is very little by way of facilities to manage road accidents even on highways.

So what is the logic of selling a lower rated car here? Actually, wouldn't it be more appropriate that all cars sold here shall meet and exceed these safety benchmarks? Why set them low?

Last edited by Yeldo : 11th November 2014 at 21:51.
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Old 12th November 2014, 08:50   #550
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So what is the logic of selling a lower rated car here? Actually, wouldn't it be more appropriate that all cars sold here shall meet and exceed these safety benchmarks? Why set them low?
Logic?
It's all about making more money while saving more on materials my friend. Just exploiting the weak safety and design regulations, and blind uninformed trust of customers on brand rather than specifications.

No logic.
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Old 12th November 2014, 09:13   #551
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

Maruti's chief's reaction:

Source: http://indianexpress.com/article/bus...-maruti-chief/

"if carmakers incorporate such features in even entry-level cars, obviously the price would go up, which would lead consumers to opt for two-wheelers, which would be more unsafe"

"Going by current cost estimates, adding two front airbags to an entry-level and the countryís top-selling car like the Alto 800 would add about R30,000 to the starting price of R2.4 lakh. Further, adding an anti-lock braking system, which reduces braking distances especially in wet conditions, will further push the price up by about R10,000."

"Unlike in EU countries where 50% road fatalities are inside cars, in India it is only 16%

There could be a commercial angle in pushing such safety technologies

Such measures can improve road safety by only 3-4%

Features like airbags are offered in higher-end cars".

I think he has gone through this thread before this interview
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Old 12th November 2014, 09:20   #552
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by romeomidhun View Post
Maruti's chief's reaction:

Source: http://indianexpress.com/article/bus...-maruti-chief/

"if carmakers incorporate such features in even entry-level cars, obviously the price would go up, which would lead consumers to opt for two-wheelers, which would be more unsafe"
Cars like Swift are premium hatchbacks, not an not entry-level car. So what is the excuse for "unstable structure" in them ?
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Old 12th November 2014, 09:42   #553
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

To me it seems that things have deteriorated in MSIL after the stakes of GoI were reduced to minority. With full control of Suzuki in MSIL and the success of MSIL in India as compared to other countries in the world (Suzuki is not doing good otherwise in many countries), they have started milking the Indian market.

Even the entry level cars like Maruti 800 use to have a much better body shell and component quality, which has gone down drastically, those who own Maruti 800 could confirm that for inside of the door shell, Maruti has been using "Cardboard" for almost 5 years before the production was finally stopped.

Its only the reach of company in rural areas which is guarding their fort until now, the cost of ownership of Maruti is no less than its peers.

Most of us would be happy to see changed regulations WRT automobile safety in the country and I for one would like to see how MSIL survives by making such statements of their cars being better than two-wheelers.

Gone are the days when made-to-cost things use to work in India

- Tata's failed in keeping up with market due to poor quality, they are turning the tables now to gain traction.

- Toyota has admitted that mass market is a difficult front for them, but are trying to work out something with good budget players (may be a collaboration in near future)

- Honda has done it, they have to focus on quality and safety

For how long MSIL can continue with mere tin cans and lame excuses !

Cheers

Last edited by i74js : 12th November 2014 at 09:45.
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Old 12th November 2014, 09:45   #554
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

Not sure if this is considered off topic, but did the NCAP test XUV500 anytime? What was the rating for XUV? Tried to google this but couldn't get a definitive answer.
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Old 12th November 2014, 09:51   #555
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by audioholic View Post

But the way people are reacting here is uncalled for. I don't think a person owning a swift or a dzire would be feeling good seeing that. But lately this thread just gave a room for all kinds of comments and statements which doesn't feel so good to see.

I would rather like to see what the actual differences are in a Five star rated swift and the zero star version, and also know what is the changes in the assembly line for the safer swift and the swift meant for the mango men(if there exists one)

Request the MODS to kindly streamline the thread to talk about technical aspects and outcomes rather.
Cya!
Streamlining of this discussion is impossible. You are right about the manufacturer bashing that goes on and people reading posts here already have an opinion which they have already decided is right and sacred since it was they chose to hold. Discussions yield results when everybody has an open mind and have suspended their disbelief in the other opinion while going through posts. But that does not happen on internet forums. I can tell you that I know members of this forum who harp on safety and have Team-BHP stickers on their vehicles who have been in accidents simply because of unsafe driving.

I have tried telling people that just because you think you are enlightened doesn't mean that you are, or because you think you are a good driver you actually are one. Armed with the confidence that they have contributed immeasurably to the cause of road safety by making intelligent posts on various forums and with a self importance that is egregious they go ahead and come back with accidents. I have been in the vehicles when some of these accidents happened and to me it was clear as day that my friends made the mistake that caused the accident. But since these folks are crusaders of safety they do not even consider the possibility that they are responsible for the accident.

Bashing manufacturers for not providing safety features like airbags, ABS, EBD is also the norm and everyone wants to believe that the manufacturers are governed by malafide intentions of looting the customers with cheap products and make high profits. I am not supporting the manufacturers, but how many actually know what kind of economics go into the setting up of car making businesses? I have bought cars over the years and I would love to have all the bells and whistles but I just could not consider them simply because I couldn't just fork out the extra money; not because I thought it was a waste of my money. It is like that for many people. There are people who do not want to spend money even if they have it but there are also others who don't because they cannot. Manufacturers have to cater to all kinds of people; so it is not like they have a cut and dry job of go cheat the customers and milk them and give them nothing in return. The last couple of years have seen a depression in the Indian car bazaar and that must mean something beyond all the points that have been raised.

Somebody on this thread has named himself after Fredrick Hayek, so I have mustered enough courage to bring Aristotle into this. For Aristotle the truth never lies at the extremes but somewhere in the middle; something which he called the golden mean. But he himself admitted that the golden mean was very elusive. Like I said in my previous post in this thread safety is a combination of lots of things. If we are serious about, then let us try and build a picture which is holistic. It isn't just about structural stability, airbags (why only two whey not have eight airbags and then what would be the cost, how can anyone argue that two are sufficient?), ABS and more such aids it is about a lot of things. But then I do not have an answer when people say what is wrong with having cars that have these? I probably don't have it because I am pretty sure that I cannot afford them. I am now wondering if I should not be owning a car because its safety is compromised. But I have been driving for over 30 years and touch wood I have had no serious accidents. So maybe I will keep the car.
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