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Old 3rd November 2014, 17:22   #61
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by giri1.8 View Post
So, If I am in the market for a hatch, the only safe option I could go for is POLO? ...
Edit: I mentioned in my ownership review that I avoided Hyundai grand because of zero star safety rating of the first gen i10, its very unfortunate that I have spend hard-earned money on a car which is poor on safety :(

Brother, as I've said above even the Etios Liva has safety features with 4-star in safety ratings along with Polo.
The 'old' i10 got zero stars but the new Grand-i10 got 4-stars (European Version though). unless Hyundai too has compromised in build quality like MS, I think it should be pretty safe.
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Old 3rd November 2014, 17:28   #62
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Oh please!! Give me a break!! NCAP standards are as manipulatable just as mobile phone benchmark tests are. An NCAP five star rated car wont necessarily save your life in an accident. I do these kinds of CAE analysis and simulations day in and day out as a part of my job working with OE manufacturers.
I am not defending any maker but the real world performance of any car in a given segment is as we say in Hindi "19-20".
Unfortunate to see such comment from one of the guys who work hard to make vehicles safer.

Every law has a loop hole, so does every standard (from my own experience as an automotive engineer). This doesn't mean we do not care for what we strive for.

EuroNCAP changes its results and compliance requirements every two years. This is done to ensure that the same car rated 5star last year is not rated the same the next year.

As people can see NCAP ratings are voluntary and not mandatory in Europe / USA, etc. Government puts forth certain minimum safety requirements need to meet for sale, over and above which these tests are done.

These are done to ensure that there is choice put forth to the customers for safer vehicles. By meeting this crash tests from such agencies, the chances of fatality in actual vehicle crashes is reduced, so less loss of life and less loss in insurance claims and so on.

There are also agencies like tatcham, RCAR, etc. which test for other requirements of cars like anti-theft, ease of repair in case of small crashes, etc.

The whole idea is not to encourage drivers to drive faster, but instill an confidence that by following the rules they are a lot more safer. Until unless government doesn't put the basic frame work for developing stringent standards, it will always be an elusive dream to have NCAP in India.

Also, the emphasise lie on the users as well to consciously and meticulously follow all rules and adhere to all safety norms while driving. Other wise, even the most strict enforcement laws would mean the biggest jokes

Last edited by rajess_in : 3rd November 2014 at 17:33. Reason: Spell Check
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Old 3rd November 2014, 17:30   #63
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

Results are as expected. A zero rating is not shocking as by rules any car without ABS and airbags gets a zero by default. Not much to talk about Datsun Go. I am sure all cars in this price range will have poor structural build in India.

What is surprising is that Swift's body shell too is rated as unstable. Obviously Maruti (and a few others) is cutting corners everywhere for the sake of profits and making hay while there are no safety regulations.

Adding ABS and front airbags would cost manufacturers not more than 20-25K at most. Polo and Liva have already done and proved that. Will others like Maruti, Hyundai and Honda follow suit?
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Old 3rd November 2014, 17:31   #64
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
I guess you didn't read the full report. It earned three stars with airbags- mostly proving that the structural integrity is not maintained for the Indian markets.

I believe the European swift earned 5 stars, which would be equivalent to 4 stars now as per the modified norms.
Didn't read the report, thanks for pointing out my friend, I didn't go for Polo as we already had one and the stress which we get from getting the car serviced and the service bills were more life threatening than unsafe cars on a serious note we frankly deserve safer cars for the price we pay, but I wont shift the blame on the government for not making ABS and airbags as standard.
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Old 3rd November 2014, 17:53   #65
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by romeomidhun View Post
A basic car, at any time, is a far safer option than a 2-wheeler. A person driving a vehicle, should be aware of the capacities and limitations of the vehicle. He is not supposed to drive a basic car having no safety features at a high speed.

But there should be an optional kit with all safety features available even in base trim with an extra cost. Whoever give priority to safety, can pay and opt for it.
Sorry couldn't understand the argument, does it give a right to person with ABS and AirBags to drive fast, knowing he is equipped with safety features??

I do agree with capability of the vehicle as same person would drive Audi and Alto at different speeds, but nowhere the choice of speed is dominated by ABS and Air Bag.

These safety features should be made mandatory in all cars like we have laws relating to Helmets and Seat Belts. I perceive Bikes might be safer option if you are wearing a helmet.

I think if providing ABS and Air bags in cars becomes mandatory and not as an option there inclusion prices would automatically come down due to shear volume. Remember more than 80% cars sold these days are derived of these features, Economies of scale what we call.

Last edited by Passiautonate : 3rd November 2014 at 17:55.
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Old 3rd November 2014, 18:09   #66
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by Passiautonate View Post
Sorry couldn't understand the argument, does it give a right to person with ABS and AirBags to drive fast, knowing he is equipped with safety features??

I do agree with capability of the vehicle as same person would drive Audi and Alto at different speeds, but nowhere the choice of speed is dominated by ABS and Air Bag.
Here, you contradict yourself!

First you say "how can a person drive faster if he is equipped with ABS and airbags".

Then you say "an Audi can be driven faster than Alto".

Let me ask you now: what differentiates an Audi from an Alto in terms of safety? (after all, nobody will drive an Audi faster just because it is an Audi). IMO, basically it is the size, sheet metal, active and passive safety mechanisms (including ABS and Airbags).

Last edited by romeomidhun : 3rd November 2014 at 18:11.
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Old 3rd November 2014, 18:09   #67
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

2 years ago while deciding on the Swift i looked up the euroncap rating of the Swift and its common competitors available in india and europe. During that research i found that the euro swift scored as good as its competitors on the test. I knew that we wouldnt be getting that much safety kit here in india but i believed we would atleast be getting the same rigid body shell. Now these india specific car tests come as a real shocker. Simply unforgiveable that Maruti has taken cost cutting to the level of basic structural integrity and rigidity of the car.

Last edited by Sankar : 3rd November 2014 at 18:11.
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Old 3rd November 2014, 18:25   #68
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

I think Maruti fans are trying to defend the indefensible. That more safety features would entice drivers to drive faster thereby negating the presence of safety features is a hollow argument. No reasoning can justify selling unsafe cars. It is sad that Maruti's customers are not demanding what should have been their right - to protect their lives.
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Old 3rd November 2014, 18:27   #69
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

I can understand (but disagree with) cost cutting by omitting features, but cost cutting by compromising structural integrity? I'd rather not say what was my first thought on reading this.
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Old 3rd November 2014, 18:39   #70
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

This is disappointing but not shocking considering Polo scored 4 stars with far better build. What's sickening however, is even the body shell is deemed unstable and is not as strong as the european or latin american versions.

I second the thought that our official reviews need to be edited to highlight these results. I don't think the Indian Swift deserves this praise:

Quote:
This car has received a 5 star rating in the NCAP (Link). Sure, the European Swift gets more safety kit & airbags, yet the 5 star rating says a lot about the crash worthiness of the monocoque.
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Old 3rd November 2014, 19:40   #71
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by romeomidhun View Post
Here, you contradict yourself!

First you say "how can a person drive faster if he is equipped with ABS and airbags".

Then you say "an Audi can be driven faster than Alto".

Let me ask you now: what differentiates an Audi from an Alto in terms of safety? (after all, nobody will drive an Audi faster just because it is an Audi). IMO, basically it is the size, sheet metal, active and passive safety mechanisms (including ABS and Airbags).
Well sorry If I didn't made it clear- I will rephrase- Driving habits does not change with ABS and Airbags in different variants of same cars.

It was apples & oranges comparison (Audi and Alto), you got it right. Or in other words, even after fitting a motor illegally into a cycle it does not become a motor cycle, does it?

Cheers!
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Old 3rd November 2014, 19:41   #72
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

These tests to say the least, are appalling. I personally feel extremely disheartened after seeing the Swift's unfortunate results. Disheartened not only by the fact that this car sells in such large number, but also because I have recommended it to so many nearest and dearest ones (always the top model), obviously assuming and keeping in mind the 5 star EuroNCAP rating and that a large and trusted manufacturer like Maruti will not indulge in petty practices like tinkering with the structural integrity of their so called "premium hatchback" in comparison to its European counterpart.

I am slightly confused though, about whether their is a difference in the structural integrity of the car sold in UK, and India, for it had 6 Airbags, and ESP and what not as standard to achieve the 5 stars. The car which got 3 stars and is made in India only had Dual Airbags and ABS.

A snippet of the specifications of the car tested for the EURO NCAP.
Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...-screen-shot-20141103-7.17.51-pm.png

For the people who are assuming and supposing things like weight and structural integrity, here is a snapshot of the GNCAP test of the Indian made swift. Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...-screen-shot-20141103-7.17.19-pm.png

One thing to notice is the Kerb Weight. The car made in India, is significantly heavier, despite having lower number of features.

Whether this is due to a different engine, or due to the quality of materials used is unknown. The GNCAP reports are very less detailed in comparison to the EuroNCAP reports. Had they included the intrusion statistics, we could have made conclusions regarding the structural integrity. It is very much possible that the 3 stars were due to the omissions of Side airbags and ESP and seat belt reminders etc, so we can't make sure conclusions on the structural integrity.

Comparison of the Adult Protection diagrams, (left India made, right european)

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However, by just comparing the Adult Occupant Protection diagrams, it can be seen that areas like the knees and shins did not contain any airbags in the european model too, yet it fared way better than the Indian model.

So, this topic still remains open ended and I request you guys with your expertise to dig deeper and find out.
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Old 3rd November 2014, 19:44   #73
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Default Structural Rigidity is the BIGGEST safety device!!

To earn 'ZERO' stars is some achievement. I used to go-on about how chinese cars were bad and Indian manufacturers were so much more responsible. What a gullible fool I am. Even the chinese managed 1-2 stars.

I see a lo of people claim the maruti swift is safer with ABS and airbags!! It is not. Actually your better off without an airbag in that coffin!! An airbag counters a body bouncing off the steering wheel. But its designed under the conviction that the steering is in its place. In a maruti swift a frontal collision will mean that the driver will end up eating the displaced steering wheel and its highly likely that the deployed airbag will implode inside his stomach!!

Albeit the safest feature in that contraption is that in a high impact frontal collision, there will be no need for an ambulance, your meeting with the maker is instant.

Also the theory that one doesn't drive fast enough is very stupid or ignorant, take your pick. A car collision doesn't necessarily mean it has to be a moving entity, it also has to be safe to protect passengers when despite being idle or slow but is the target of another vehicle's impact!! A Tata 407 charging towards you wont check the speed ur doing, WILL IT?!

Request to Team BHP

This is easily one of the most influential and informed automotive forums in India, that's me being respectful to other forums, everyone knows Team BHP is the most powerful automotive message board in the country.

On various occasions both the forum management and it members have freely posted their opinions not fearing any manufacturer. The open and loud stand taken against car makers skimping in quality, service standards have been commendable.

Today there is clear evidence that the country's largest car manufacturer (an organisation that was set up and allowed to thrive under tax payers funding no less) is cutting corners in a vehicle that is easily at a premium to most of the country's car buying public. A model they know they can make safer but chooses not to only because of profits its scared of loosing.

I hope the forum decides to take a stand here, if not directed at the manufacturer at least to make members aware of the drawbacks.
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Old 3rd November 2014, 20:13   #74
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Default Re: Structural Rigidity is the BIGGEST safety device!!

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I hope the forum decides to take a stand here, if not directed at the manufacturer at least to make members aware of the drawbacks.
I second the idea that Team-BHP reviews should go beyond reporting 'safety features' in a YES/NO fashion and cover it in more detail.

The highly congested (and increasingly more so) motoring scenario in our country mandates that safety be given prime importance in any automotive discussion. The manufacturers may not change their practices, but they should at least know the community is not standing by mute. An informed customer is a potent change initiator, and it's time we took sides on this issue.
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Old 3rd November 2014, 20:26   #75
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Wink Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by prakhar1998 View Post

I am slightly confused though, about whether their is a difference in the structural integrity of the car sold in UK, and India, for it had 6 Airbags, and ESP and what not as standard to achieve the 5 stars. The car which got 3 stars and is made in India only had Dual Airbags and ABS.
http://www.globalncap.org/un-crash-t...s-global-ncap/

GNCAP clearly state in their report "The Swift’s vehicle structure showed signs of collapsing in the crash and was rated as unstable."

They do not however state how they came to this conclusion. Logical conclusion is that they must have taking some sensor's reading into account or examined the body shell after the test. Else they would not report such a crucial detail based on their 'gut feeling' or assumption - Maruti could sue them!
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