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Old 3rd November 2014, 20:32   #76
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

Why are they charging so much money for such cars?

Whatever we say, as long as our regulations are not made stricter, companies will not take safety seriously. We need to remember that most people have no choice in the lower priced models.
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Old 3rd November 2014, 20:50   #77
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

In my opinion it's very hard for Team Bhp alone to create a real campaign so that all manufacturers start making their cars safer by providing safety equipments in all variants of their cars. Instead what our forum can do is we can create a general public awareness about it.
Here the Govt. has a big role to play if we are to get safer cars in coming days. The policy makers will have to come up with stringent norms to bound all manufacturers to provide airbags and ABS even in their base variants. Just like what they do when it comes to emission norms. If manufacturers can provide BS4 compliant vehicle in all variants (instead of say BS3 for base variant and BS4 for middle and top variant, although I don't know whether that would have given them any cost advantage or not) then why can't they provide at least two airbags and ABS as standard in base variants I wonder.
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Old 3rd November 2014, 20:50   #78
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

I am not sure if someone noticed the weight difference between the older and facelifted version:

ZXi/ZDi 990/1080 (2013) 965/1060 (2014)

Every successive facelift/revision looses weight

Whats more, the 2014 brochure/website do not mention the weight of the lower variants. God knows by what incremental percentage it has gone down, expecially since the Zxi and ZDi variants are considered safer, by corollary, the lower variants are not safe (relatively).

No wonder Maruti keeps increasing fuel efficiency, at least partially this may be accounted to the 2.6% loss in weight.

Last edited by PVPal : 3rd November 2014 at 20:54.
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Old 3rd November 2014, 21:10   #79
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpainter View Post
In my opinion it's very hard for Team Bhp alone to create a real campaign so that all manufacturers start making their cars safer .......
Maybe not, but this forum is very very influential!! U might not know this, A couple of years ago Skoda India tried to shut down a thread on faults in their cars and their appalling service standards!! What they got in return was a kick on their nut-sack!!
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Old 3rd November 2014, 21:20   #80
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Was the Swift the only option in the segment back then? No other diesel cars offered airbags as an option?
I say we change first before crying for the government to change.
This is exactly the question I asked in another thread in the forum. When I had to buy a diesel hatchback in 2011, safety was the first priority for me. A lot of people advised me to get the Swift which was the norm () but that time, the only option was VDi, with optional ABS. I did not even look at the Swift and only two cars in contention were the Figo and Punto. Got a Figo Titanium and after 3 years & all the test results out, I feel good that I made the right decision. What did I lose not going for the Swift? Actually, nothing.
Unlike the 80's and 90's, the Indian automotive industry has a lot to offer and if people are willing to look for options, the market leaders will feel the heat. I always felt that the market leader, Maruti-Suzuki set the example of skimping on safety to make profits and many others followed. Hyundai came and realized that to get to the top spot, you need service centres, mileage and gizmos and safety is far down in the list. Some others like VW chose to stay with reputation of being safe and kudos to them.
The output from manufacturers depend a lot on market dynamics and if 25% of the market denounce the metal boxes, I feel that the change will start to show.
From the results, one thing is clear that the country's top manufacturer is tinkering with the structural rigidity of their cars in their largest market. Shame on you Maruti, for not valuing the lives of your largest customer base.
I second the idea of adding a detailed note in the Team-Bhp official review, about the safety aspect, especially when the same car model's structural integrity is different across different markets, at least for models where data is available.
I still remember the news about Tata Nano faring well in NCAP tests, "with some minor" structural reinforcements. Now we understand the significance of those "minor" mods

Last edited by A350XWB : 3rd November 2014 at 21:28.
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Old 3rd November 2014, 21:21   #81
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

Datsun Go's structure really crumbled on impact; on the same lines as Nano.

One thing to note here is that although Maruti (and others) are claiming that they are offering the safety features to those who are willing to pay for the top variant, it is actually false. Even if I'm willing to pay for ZXi, I'm still not getting the structural integrity of a European Swift. Same is the case with Hyundai products as well. In fact, Suzuki and Hyundai have stopped exporting to Europe from their Indian base.

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Originally Posted by CoolCarNi View Post
One of the paras from this report I found appalling!
"The focus of these tests is to create awareness amongst Indian consumers, and also suggest the adoption of safety protocols by the government. Very often manufacturers claim they don't offer safety features in base versions due to lack of demand by consumers"
As a customer, I don't want to pay additional price for BS-2/3/4/5 emission norms. Would the manufacturers be willing to give me a car with a higher emission and lower cost just because I want it? Are they giving me a choice not to buy their pathetic stereo and buy one that I like from outside in case of top variants? If they cannot do that, then why blame the customer for this case alone?

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Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
Any one willing to take bets on the "Ciaz", the lightest and yet biggest of the lot and not made of "aluminium".
I can bet my entire net worth on it. Base model doesn't have airbags - so Zero stars. Its a no brainer.

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Originally Posted by Zinda View Post
Who cares? As far as Swift VXi/VDi returns same mileage figures as more expensive Z variants, the "saved" 70-odd grands can be spent on fancy alloys shod with 195 section rubber, "skoda" type horn and art leather seats and voila, cool looking super hatch is ready!
You missed the touchscreen audio system that supports Bluetooth hands-free calls with 6 speakers and subwoofer that costs in the range of 50k.

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Originally Posted by RavSam View Post
Please include Toyota here too because they too now have Airbags as Standard in Etios Liva.
They've included airbags but at this point, they are equally suspicious until someone tests their India made cars. They'll probably not score zero stars but I'm not too confident on their structural integrity like I trust in case of a Fiat or VW. My guess is probably 3 stars.
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Old 3rd November 2014, 21:23   #82
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
Maybe not, but this forum is very very influential!! U might not know this, A couple of years ago Skoda India tried to shut down a thread on faults in their cars and their appalling service standards!! What they got in return was a kick on their nut-sack!!
Yes I know of this. I may have become a member only a couple of months ago but I've been reading this forum for years now. And if I'm not wrong, you are referring to harish's case. I know the power of this forum and that's why I feel pride to be a member of this beautiful forum. I'm in no way undermining the potential of our lovely community.

My point was that in order to change something that has been a practice in the auto industry for years, the Govt. has to intervene. It's not just a matter of protest and things like writing to the top company officials and all. They have to be forced to make that change. It's like making a law. Like e.g. you can urge people not to drive without wearing seatbelts/helmet and create general awareness. That will work to some extent but not as a whole and hence will not serve the purpose. But once you impose fine for not wearing seatbelt, then only it will become a practice. Unfortunately sometimes that is how we wake up to our senses.
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Old 3rd November 2014, 21:26   #83
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by zenren View Post
They've included airbags but at this point, they are equally suspicious until someone tests their India made cars. They'll probably not score zero stars but I'm not too confident on their structural integrity like I trust in case of a Fiat or VW. My guess is probably 3 stars.
Well, unless they too have compromised with the build quality wrt to Indian market than the Latin market then this seems credible.
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Old 3rd November 2014, 21:29   #84
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

I now really want to know how the Ertiga fares in a crash a car thats is basically an elongated Swift, a car which is supposed to be a people mover. It will also be interesting to see its peformance vis a vis the Thailand or variant.

Last edited by extreme_torque : 3rd November 2014 at 21:30.
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Old 3rd November 2014, 21:34   #85
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

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Originally Posted by RavSam View Post
Well, unless they too have compromised with the build quality wrt to Indian market than the Latin market then this seems credible.
That is precisely the point. Latin NCAP ratings were obtained in 2012 and in case of a lot of other manufacturers, we clearly see a difference between markets. Even the Etios got this safety focus only recently.

Most important point: Etios sold in Brazil are not manufactured in India and exported, they are made in Brazil in their Sao Paulo unit.

Last edited by zenren : 3rd November 2014 at 21:37.
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Old 3rd November 2014, 21:36   #86
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Come on - Maruti provides fuel efficient cars that happily run on a mixture of diesel, kerosene and water, do not breakdown, and are cheap to run and service. What more can you want? Most Indians do not wear seat belts - so why are you whining about structural integrity,air bags, and other such useless features? Maruti gives Indian car buyers just what they want - features, looks, fuel efficiency and service. You benefit from these every day, but need safety features rather rarely. After all, how many of you have had accidents even in the last year? So why waste money on safe, but unreliable and costly to maintain cars?
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Old 3rd November 2014, 21:37   #87
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

Sad to see this. When manufacturers can give features equivalent to the european/american models, why can't the upgrade safety also to those norms?

Adding D+P airbag, ABS and a few safety features costs less than 30,000 INR.

We can easily remove stuff like: (In sub 10 lakh INR cars)
  • Climate control: Yes it's a nice feature to have. I wouldn't term it useless, but a thing I can easily live without.
  • Push button start: Oh come on chief. How difficult is it to turn a key? I'm not asking you to manually crank the car!
  • Projectors and DRLs: These can easily knock off costs.
  • OEM HUs: Yes, I know it's highly debatable. Almost all OEM stereos give such lousy audio quality that some people immediately want to go for a speaker upgrade. Rather, keep a list of HUs as options with the dealer. Also offer and AVN systems.
  • There are many small features like this which can easily be removed and the cost can be used to improve the number of safety features.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayek View Post
Come on - Maruti provides fuel efficient cars that happily run on a mixture of diesel, kerosene and water, do not breakdown, and are cheap to run and service. What more can you want? Most Indians do not wear seat belts - so why are you whining about structural integrity,air bags, and other such useless features? Maruti gives Indian car buyers just what they want - features, looks, fuel efficiency and service. You benefit from these every day, but need safety features rather rarely. After all, how many of you have had accidents even in the last year? So why waste money on safe, but unreliable and costly to maintain cars?
I just hope you reconsider what you said and you will never regret saying this. India has the highest number of deaths by road accidents in the world.

Last edited by D4D : 3rd November 2014 at 21:41.
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Old 3rd November 2014, 21:53   #88
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

Forget about the sub 10 lakh segment. Sometimes I wonder why some cars like Innova doesn't come with 2-4 airbags as standard. If I remember correctly even the G variant has only driver side airbag which is sad. The car costs well over 12 lakh OTR yet comes with only one airbag. It's not that the car is loaded with gizmos either. At least a company like Toyota should give emphasize on the safety issue. They should not cut corners. They don't need to. They are already selling Innova at a premium. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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Old 3rd November 2014, 22:13   #89
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

Shame on you Maruti for giving Indian customers step motherly treatment !

I have seen the swift in France and yes it looked exactly the same as the one we have here - this comes as a rude shock - especially that structural components were deliberately removed.

I mean this is treachery, i simply do not agree that customers who do not want safety features are the culprit - if the manufacturer gives safety features only on the top variant and charge a premium for it - its quite natural for the common man to equate safety as a luxury rather than a necessity.

Its high time the Government does something about it - or rather follow the footsteps of "responsible" manufacturers like VW and Toyota
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Old 3rd November 2014, 22:20   #90
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Default Re: Maruti Swift, Datsun Go fail Global NCAP tests too...

Quote:
Originally Posted by D4D View Post
Adding D+P airbag, ABS and a few safety features costs less than 30,000 INR.

We can easily remove stuff like:

May I suggest adding one aspect: improve structural stability by using appropriate hi-grade components at joints and make the crumple zones adequate.

On another note: Just hope Indian consumers think before they buy. It could be the lives of their loved ones that they are gambling. What if some one dies, or worse is crippled for life? Not only you but your dear one will suffer and live with it for your entire life.

Unless the consumer is aware and demanding, there is little that will change. This negative publicity is certainly going to help the cause of safety as we all realize and make others realize the primary and uncompromisable importance.
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