Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 8th November 2014, 07:01   #16
Distinguished - BHPian
 
libranof1987's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: All over!
Posts: 4,349
Thanked: 4,365 Times
Default re: Struggling in India, Toyota asks Daihatsu to help

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
May be they already realise that? What if Toyota has decided that the lower segments require compromises that it can't take? The next generation Etios twin replacement might come with compromised quality from Daihatsu stable, while Toyota can release a premium priced option above it.
That might be a smart move. They then get to have mass sellers and yet don't have worry about brand dilution or negative publicity.

But, I doubt if the market has enough space for a new entry-level, no-frills manufacturer. Esp. given all the publicity this Swift-Datsun Go episode has garnered.
libranof1987 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th November 2014, 09:25   #17
Senior - BHPian
 
zenren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: CLT/TVM/HYD
Posts: 2,574
Thanked: 1,725 Times
Default re: Struggling in India, Toyota asks Daihatsu to help

Sensible and welcome move that I've been hoping for since I saw the Premier Rio for the first time and realized that the original was actually a subsidiary of Toyota corp.

While Toyota lets Daihatsu worry about what small car models would be good for India, I don't see the reason why they are not bringing the Daihatsu Terios/Toyota Rush mini-SUV here. That is already having a 5 and 7 seater versions - something which can battle head on with Ecosport as well as Ertiga at the same time. That is the craze in India currently and Toyota is nowhere in picture right now.

Terios 5-seater:

Name:  800pxToyota_Rush.jpg
Views: 1421
Size:  73.8 KB

Name:  Toyota_Rush_001.jpg
Views: 1800
Size:  104.1 KB

7-seater:
Name:  800px2009_Daihatsu_Terios_1.5_Advantage.jpg
Views: 1332
Size:  59.7 KB
Image source: Wiki
zenren is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 8th November 2014, 10:03   #18
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 767
Thanked: 825 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
+ 1. But for a different reason.

Attachment 1306704

Toyota is neck to neck with Honda despite having a portfolio of more expensive and premium products. The Etios twins are an exception for sure, but the entire Honda lineup now consists of mass-segment cars and they haven't fared a lot better than Toyota. And the reputation has taken a beating these days.

Toyota needs to learn from it's own portfolio. There is a reason the Innova, Fortuner and Corolla have become a success. Legendary Toyota reliability and fuss-free ownership experience mated to average luxury products. They don't need too much bling and equipments to sell, but shouldn't make the owner feel cheap either like the Etios twins manage to do.

May be they already realise that? What if Toyota has decided that the lower segments require compromises that it can't take? The next generation Etios twin replacement might come with compromised quality from Daihatsu stable, while Toyota can release a premium priced option above it.

Hope the safety standards get established before they make this move. Otherwise we may see a repeat of the Datsun story.
Further quality compromises? The Etios already feels like a tin can. I am not sure what more could be compromised! unless they aim to be the next Datsun.
Mad Max is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th November 2014, 12:22   #19
Senior - BHPian
 
zenren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: CLT/TVM/HYD
Posts: 2,574
Thanked: 1,725 Times
Default re: Struggling in India, Toyota asks Daihatsu to help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Max View Post
Further quality compromises? The Etios already feels like a tin can. I am not sure what more could be compromised! unless they aim to be the next Datsun.
I think that is precisely what Toyota wants to avoid. In case of Etios/Liva, Toyota ended up with some pieces having 100% of the Toyota quality/price and the remaining pieces at ~60% (including skipping parts/features) to meet the overall price target, Daihatsu would be able to do it at a uniform 80% across the board and meet the price and standards for the segment similar to Suzuki and Hyundai, which would seem to be much more better proposition for the buyers.

This is the same challenge with Toyota (Etios) and Honda (Amaze)- their engine and gearbox though of a better quality, costs much more than the Suzuki/Hyundai and hence they need to compromise more in other areas to ensure the car gets priced on par with Hyundai.

For a new car buyer in India who intends to keep a car for 4 years, he wouldn't be too bothered whether his car would have bullet-proof reliability for 8 years or 15 years which is typically the difference between Maruti and Toyota. So this additional cost for the 'useless' reliability is difficult to digest for the customer if that comes at the expense of something else. In case of Innova, the taxi segment would need such reliability considering the heavy running they do and they are the ones who would ensure even private buyers with low run cars actually fetch exceptional resale value making it a VFM. In the absence of a huge taxi interest for Etios, it would be difficult to sell.
zenren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th November 2014, 13:10   #20
BHPian
 
raghav135's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 67
Thanked: 31 Times
Default re: Struggling in India, Toyota asks Daihatsu to help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Max View Post
Further quality compromises? The Etios already feels like a tin can. I am not sure what more could be compromised! unless they aim to be the next Datsun.
I do not believe Toyota is looking for inputs on cost-cutting. Basically Toyota is a specialist in bigger cars, they have only couple of small cars. Daihatsu is a specialist in small cars, so Toyota is asking the experts in small cars division to help them, makes complete sense.

What is not clear is whether they have asked help in "looks" of etios revamping project, or help in doing a completely new car. Whatever be the case, I am very happy
raghav135 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th November 2014, 17:32   #21
MHG
BHPian
 
MHG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 339
Thanked: 283 Times
Default re: Struggling in India, Toyota asks Daihatsu to help

I doubt Toyota should have difficulty fixing its current lineup itself. Here is a bucketlist I have prepared for Toyota which will make buyers turn their eyes:
  1. Offer a big diesel (from the Fortuner perhaps) in the Camry and if possible also the Corolla.
  2. Since the Corolla and Camry are CKD anyway, up the safety package to that found in North America.
  3. Tune the 1.4 D4D in the Etios twins to 88 BHP as found in the Corolla. Atleast do this for the Sportivo version. Also offer the 6-speed Corolla gearbox here.
  4. Jazz up the Etios twins with minor bodykit changes. Shouldn't be hard really. Smoke the headlamps, slightly alter the grille and rear to rework the boxiness and offer shining gun metal alloy wheels.
  5. Make the Sportivo versions truly top of the line - along with the existing cosmetic bits, also add race car like bright colors like green, red, orange, yellow, etc and include a black race stripe. People love this sort of thing.
  6. Beef up the structure of the Etios Twins to improve crash safety. It shouldn't cost Toyota much (and the small price increase can be passed on to customers) but it'll do lots of good. If necessary, combine this with a new interior theme - preferably with all black and all while as an option.
  7. Offer 8 airbags on the Etios Twins atleast in the Sportivo versions.
  8. Increase Fortuner equipment levels. At that price it deserves 8 airbags, ESC and TC. Ditto for the Innova. Perhaps they'll do this with the next generation anyway since it is supposed to get more premium.
  9. Offer a 4x4 Innova with slightly increased GC. Would be a segment first - a 4x4 MUV!
  10. Learn from your heritage and don't make the same mistakes as Daimler AG. You are known for cars that last forever. Put these qualities in your current lineup and start playing Toyota reliability advertisements.
  11. If any of this helps, give me a free Land Cruiser
MHG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th November 2014, 17:57   #22
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: TN 14
Posts: 36
Thanked: 18 Times
Default re: Struggling in India, Toyota asks Daihatsu to help

He he, they did it already - the deadly, macho, terrain crunching Etios Cross!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MHG View Post
[*]Jazz up the Etios twins with minor bodykit changes. Shouldn't be hard really. Smoke the headlamps, slightly alter the grille and rear to rework the boxiness and offer shining gun metal alloy wheels.
marsbhp is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 12th November 2014, 23:50   #23
BHPian
 
subratasenn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 377
Thanked: 278 Times
Default Finally a sub-4 lakh car from Toyota?

If certain reports are to believed Toyota is finally working on bringing a sub 4 lakh car to India. Or this is just again a speculation?

http://www.cartrade.com/car-bike-new...=daily-mailers

The car trade report talks about "certain media reports". What are they?

In any case, a sub 4 lakh small car from Toyota is not a bad idea. The timing is just right specially in the light of safety rating questions raised against certain cars. Toyota is known to provide reliable and trouble-free cars and they seem to be thinking of providing adequate safety in their small cars too.

Toyota has the highest market share (around 50%) in the higher segment cars. This means that Toyota is the Maruti-Suzuki of the country in these segments. They have just added the required glitz in their reliable Etios and Liva models. Spruced up the safety features too.

Maybe time has come for them to get into small car segment?
subratasenn is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 12th November 2014, 23:53   #24
BHPian
 
gautamkhadse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: pune
Posts: 283
Thanked: 185 Times
Default Re: Finally a sub-4 lakh car from Toyota?

will this be the toyota Aygo ? The car looks rather quirky and will probably appeal to the youth .
gautamkhadse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th November 2014, 00:08   #25
Senior - BHPian
 
rajeev k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Emerging Metro
Posts: 3,315
Thanked: 1,757 Times
Default Re: Finally a sub-4 lakh car from Toyota?

Quote:
Originally Posted by subratasenn View Post
The car trade report talks about "certain media reports". What are they?
The news of Toyota seeking help from Daihatsu, a group company, for this budget car has already been reported. But what is important is the adherence to safety standards which may not be easier, especially in the wake of failure of several Indian cars on the NCAP tests.

Last edited by rajeev k : 13th November 2014 at 00:12.
rajeev k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th November 2014, 00:14   #26
Senior - BHPian
 
Parm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: in a Toyota!
Posts: 2,698
Thanked: 612 Times
Default Re: Finally a sub-4 lakh car from Toyota?

"Toyota will also launch the next generation Innova and Fortuner SUV in the next 1-2 years."

When some one writes such a comment, that shows he is just not having the correct information about his subject.

Anyway, coming back to the topic, I would prefer a Daihatsu Sirion as rebadged Toyota for Indian market. It's 1.3/1.5 Ltr petrol engine could be de-tuned to 1.2 and offered at a very competitive price.

Below photo is just for reference only. (Friends, lets make our threads lively and colorful, by adding photos as references)
Attached Images
 

Last edited by Parm : 13th November 2014 at 00:15.
Parm is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 13th November 2014, 12:14   #27
BHPian
 
arjab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: MAA/CCU
Posts: 680
Thanked: 1,297 Times
Default Re: Finally a sub-4 lakh car from Toyota?

Quote:
Originally Posted by subratasenn View Post
The timing is just right specially in the light of safety rating...
From an OEM's point of view if Euro levels of safety norms are today implemented or copy-pasted onto the Indian auto industry, then every OEM will have to say "bye-bye" to their low cost car manufacturing dreams.
Then the cheapest vehicle in India will start at Rs 4lakhs.
arjab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2014, 12:11   #28
BHPian
 
subratasenn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 377
Thanked: 278 Times
Default Re: Struggling in India, Toyota asks Daihatsu to help

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnabchak View Post
Why Daihatsu?
Because Toyota has a sales tie-up with Daihatsu in most parts of the world. So it's natural that Toyota would go for a tie-up with Daihatsu instead of other brands.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed.Demon View Post
The main reason why the Etios failed is because of the crap interiors and high price.
Quote:
Originally Posted by libranof1987 View Post
If the Toyota-badged Etios/Liva bombed, that too fairly clearly due to how bare-bone they are and the audacious price they are offered at, how is bringing in cars from a no-frills manufacturer going to help them?!
Can you actually call Etios and Liva failures? Have they bombed as you say? Look at the figures. Honda Amaze is around 10% of market share in the segment, while Etios is around 7%. None of them, of course are Dzire having more than 50% of the market share. Here is the chart:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attach...nalysis-o1.jpg


Now look at the other end of the story. The heading of this thread is Struggling in India, Toyota asks Daihatsu to help

Isn't the heading of the thread a misnomer? If Maruti-Suzuki is the boss in the lower segment cars, Toyota has its superiority in the higher segments. If Maruti controls about 50% sales volume in the lower end cars, Toyota is about the same in higher segments.
Here is the Team-BHP chart:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attach...nalysis-o4.jpg

And as Crazy-driver has pointed out, total volume-wise Toyota is just below Honda. So is it really struggling?
subratasenn is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2014, 14:19   #29
Distinguished - BHPian
 
CrAzY dRiVeR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Bangalore / TVM
Posts: 10,094
Thanked: 20,570 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by subratasenn View Post
Because Toyota has a sales tie-up with Daihatsu in most parts of the world. So it's natural that Toyota would go for a tie-up with Daihatsu instead of other brands.
Toyota is the parent company of Daihatsu. Both have been working together for almost half a century now. Toyota also holds control with more than half the shares owned by itself in Daihatsu.
CrAzY dRiVeR is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2014, 18:06   #30
Senior - BHPian
 
shankar.balan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: BLR
Posts: 8,027
Thanked: 5,355 Times
Default Re: Struggling in India, Toyota asks Daihatsu to help

Quote:
Originally Posted by zenren View Post
Sensible and welcome move that I've been hoping for since I saw the Premier Rio for the first time and realized that the original was actually a subsidiary of Toyota corp.

While Toyota lets Daihatsu worhey are not bringing the Daihatsu Terios/Toyota Rush mini-SUV here. That is already having a 5 and 7 seater versions - something which can battle head on with Ecosport as well as Ertiga at the same time. That is the craze in India currently and Toyota is nowhere in picture right now.

Terios 5-seater:
i

I have a contrarian view to this. I believe the age of the Hot hatch is here and the age of the SUV is getting a bit past it.

I wonder which manufacturer will be able to get ahead of the curve and monetize this particular consumer tipping point!
shankar.balan is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rumour: Compact SUV Toyota Rush (aka Daihatsu Rush) coming to India foby.sebastian The Indian Car Scene 109 17th May 2018 14:08
Spotted a Daihatsu Copen; unique & cute GTO Super-Cars & Imports in India 10 21st January 2012 19:45
A victim struggling for life........ Surprise Street Experiences 10 18th October 2011 12:11
Spotted - Daihatsu Sirion in Kolkata. Is this Toyotas small car for India? Wimwian The Indian Car Scene 39 13th December 2009 05:15
Toyota, Daihatsu set to build car plant in India gr8guzzler The Indian Car Scene 3 9th July 2005 01:15


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 15:11.

Copyright 2000 - 2018, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks