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Old 22nd November 2014, 14:06   #241
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Default Re: Safety last? Maruti Chairman Mr. R.C. Bhargava's ridiculous statements

It is not necessarily a bad thing for the price of cars to rise. Having a car is not a universal human right, and there are already far too many of them on Indian roads. The bar to owning and driving a car is far too low, and it is no great thing to have put 50% of them on the roads.

Yes, the low bar to getting a driving licence is a far bigger problem, and the primary cause of accidents is not the cars, bikes, trucks, etc, but the ignorance of safe and proper driving. This is a different problem and yes, it is a bigger problem.

So... you take people that can't drive and put cheap but unsafe cars in their hands. Hardly a social service, unless population control is the aim! There is only one reason for doing that, and only one reason for wanting to continue to do that: profitability.
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Old 22nd November 2014, 22:16   #242
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Default Re: Safety last? Maruti Chairman Mr. R.C. Bhargava's ridiculous statements

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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
It is not necessarily a bad thing for the price of cars to rise. Having a car is not a universal human right, and there are already far too many of them on Indian roads. The bar to owning and driving a car is far too low, and it is no great thing to have put 50% of them on the roads.
Agreed. The only problem with the logic being that this means that the ones that do not own cars are still going to be present on it on bikes and whatever alternate form of personal transport they can afford which again messes up the fatality figures.

So now we end up with a situation that all cars that are present have abs and airbags but more people die on the roads. What exactly would have been solved?

Car ownership should be controlled as you rightly pointed out by stringent licensing and not by cost. Even in the developed countries this is not the case. You hardly need to be a rich man to own a car.

NCAP citing our road fatalities to promote ABS and airbags does not make sense as the statistics do not indicate that lack of these two options is what is responsible for majority of the fatalities.

Drive on,
Shibu.
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Old 22nd November 2014, 22:54   #243
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Default Re: Safety last? Maruti Chairman Mr. R.C. Bhargava's ridiculous statements

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ones that do not own cars are still going to be present on it on bikes and whatever alternate form of personal transport they can afford which again messes up the fatality figures.
Does it? Whilst bikes are the most dangerous motor vehicle, worldwide, I wonder if what you said holds true. Are bike drivers, with only bike experience, any safer when driving cars? I have my doubts.

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NCAP citing our road fatalities to promote ABS and airbags does not make sense as the statistics do not indicate that lack of these two options is what is responsible for majority of the fatalities.
They could only attribute fatalities that took place in a car, without specified safety conditions, to the lack of those conditions, or the lack of their use. Deaths in cars does not relate to deaths on bikes, or vice versa.

When you speak of the "majority of the fatalities," what statistic are you speaking of? A
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Old 22nd November 2014, 23:32   #244
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Default Re: Safety last? Maruti Chairman Mr. R.C. Bhargava's ridiculous statements

Argument that adding safety features will prevent some people from owning car is fundamentally wrong.

1.) Amount by which price could increase due to safety features is debatable, they say It would be in the range of 30,000 but due to economics of scale, It should be not that much.

2.) Even if We consider Rs. 30,000 as price increase, nobody will defer decision to buy a 3.5 lac car for just 30,000 difference. At most some people will defer decision for few months or will go with lower variant or even go for a 1-2 years old used car, therefore customers always have plenty of options.

Personally I don't think this will affect their sales also, but looks like real concern for Mr. Bhargava is bottom line (net profit) for company.
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Old 23rd November 2014, 07:17   #245
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Default Re: Safety last? Maruti Chairman Mr. R.C. Bhargava's ridiculous statements

Looks Mr. Bhargava is not the only one ..

Bhargava's views are echoed by other top manufacturers. Rakesh Srivastava, senior VP (sales & marketing) at Hyundai Motor India, said companies are not averse to providing high-end safety features on cars. “But is it required? Some customers may want to look at affordability . Enhanced safety features would also mean increased costs.

http://epaperbeta.timesofindia.com/A...23112014001085
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Old 23rd November 2014, 09:33   #246
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Default Re: Safety last? Maruti Chairman Mr. R.C. Bhargava's ridiculous statements

The fact that the airbag never opened in many cars even in major collisions is questionable. Does this happen only in India? Is it due to quality issues or India specific circumstances?

I guess ABS should be mandatory in all cars & not the entire NCAP specifications.
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Old 23rd November 2014, 16:13   #247
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Default Re: Safety last? Maruti Chairman Mr. R.C. Bhargava's ridiculous statements

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Looks Mr. Bhargava is not the only one ...
So?

Sure he isn't, just he happens to be one who opened his big mouth and got the publicity which we all noticed.

All the reaction applies to other manufacturers too. I don't think they will be ignoring it.
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Old 23rd November 2014, 17:09   #248
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Default Re: Safety last? Maruti Chairman Mr. R.C. Bhargava's ridiculous statements

VW introduced airbags in all variants of the Polo after the first round of tests. Did the price of the Polo Trendline or Comfortline go up by 30-40K? I haven't been following the prices, so this is just to understand if claims of prices rising by 30-40K are true.
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Old 23rd November 2014, 23:19   #249
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Default Re: Safety last? Maruti Chairman Mr. R.C. Bhargava's ridiculous statements

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Originally Posted by Turbanator View Post
Looks Mr. Bhargava is not the only one ..

Enhanced safety features would also mean increased costs.

http://epaperbeta.timesofindia.com/A...23112014001085
Beg to differ, Spending on your / one's safety is not a "cost" in my humble opinion. It is an investment.

By being safe you are investing in your own self for the next moment / future which in a general sense we all hope / look forward to.

So even if the OEM's scream "cost" and still pass it on to us, we in our right minds should chose,or atleast have the freedom to chose which now is not possible because safety equipment being positioned as a luxury and available only on the top end variant ( Atleast in Maruti's case)
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Old 24th November 2014, 11:42   #250
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Default Re: Safety last? Maruti Chairman Mr. R.C. Bhargava's ridiculous statements

I wouldn't be shocked by RCB's statement because I feel we are not worthy of these devices yet.

Last week while picking up my daughter from school I watched with amusement a lady driver picking her kids and a couple more and driving off. The four kids fought among themselves for the shotgun seat and the bully looking one got it. The mother cared naught and once in her seat she pulled out her plank phone, read something, keyed in something and started the engine. To my further horror, she started driving without the seatbelt on. A few meters and then she remembered, slam on the brakes causing the front seat boy who was standing up and sassing the rear occupants to slam his derriere against the dash. Out stretched the hand, retrieved the shades the size of which can make an Ashok Leyland's windshields jealous. With the shades on, she was now ready for the road and all the challenges it has to offer and drove of without any further ado. It was an i20 Petrol Asta.

My MIL finds the seatbelts uncomfortable but wears it since it is less uncomfortable than reaching the destination with a combination of waking and using public conveyances.

Some days I just take a count of the cell phone using drivers on my way to work. My average is about 20 in my 7 km drive and this includes various classes of vehicles like two wheelers, cabs, educational institution buses, hatches, premiums etc.

You can have all the safety devices but there still is the loose nut behind the wheel. I have lived most of my life without owning or using a car and so I can boldly say that it is not a necessity. You can always afford to pay for your safety. Shades don't offer protection, touchscreen gizmos don't do much in critical braking, ACC doesn't keep the keep the vehicle under steering control and rain sensing wipers are...

Once the thing behind the wheel is sorted straight, most of RCB's cash source will remain unsold and the responsible driver will opt for what will keep them safer than what will make RCB richer. It was always our choice to make and RCB just commented on the choice we made. We made him tell that!

From one of my favorite Seinfeld Episodes (S01E03 The Robbery)

Kramer: How can you not have insurance?
Jerry: Because...I spent my money on the Clapgo D. 29, it's the most impenetrable lock on the market today...it has only one design flaw:the door... [closing door] must be closed!

Last edited by sun_king : 24th November 2014 at 11:43. Reason: Formatting in Paragraph 2, missed it in the Edit/Preview Window
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Old 24th November 2014, 12:26   #251
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Default Re: Safety last? Maruti Chairman Mr. R.C. Bhargava's ridiculous statements

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Originally Posted by shibujp View Post
Agreed. The only problem with the logic being that this means that the ones that do not own cars are still going to be present on it on bikes and whatever alternate form of personal transport they can afford which again messes up the fatality figures.

So now we end up with a situation that all cars that are present have abs and airbags but more people die on the roads. What exactly would have been solved?
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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Does it? Whilst bikes are the most dangerous motor vehicle, worldwide, I wonder if what you said holds true. Are bike drivers, with only bike experience, any safer when driving cars? I have my doubts.
Well the honest fact of life in India is, complete families (of 3-5 people) DO ride two wheelers devoid of any safety features and/or apparel. Isn't it safer for that family to use public buses? Even though it may take 1 hour more to reach destination - isn't that too low a price for the safety of a bus?

What does this tell about the market demand in India?

We are Indians, we are not concerned about long term possibilities (accidents, disability, death). We are concerned about short term realities (convenience/mobility, upfront cost, EMI, maintenance).

Last edited by alpha1 : 24th November 2014 at 12:29.
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Old 24th November 2014, 12:50   #252
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Default Re: Safety last? Maruti Chairman Mr. R.C. Bhargava's ridiculous statements

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Even though it may take 1 hour more to reach destination - isn't that too low a price for the safety of a bus?
The main problem is that nobody thinks that any bad will happen to them, because till now it has never happened to them. Just a week before, I was giving my inputs to one of my relatives who are out for a new car in the budget of 5-7 Lacs. This will be their second car and I thought this is the perfect time for them to go for a safer car (since the present one they have has scored a zero in NCAP tests & probably they do not know it and neither they are concerned about it)

I advised them to go for the variant of their choice of cars which has ABS & airbags but they just brushed aside that advice. I noticed the main points that put in their defense:

1. They never drive fast so they do not need ABS.
2. They seldom do highway trips - Again no need for ABS/ Airbags.
3. The top variant is very expensive- I too Agree to it.
4. [Myth] The airbags can go off in minor collision/ animal hit etc. and reinstating airbags can cost a fortune[/Myth]

Apart from 3rd point, I can convince them for all others. But there seems to be a general mentality that any bad cannot happen with me. And I don't know why?
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Old 24th November 2014, 13:07   #253
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Default Re: Safety last? Maruti Chairman Mr. R.C. Bhargava's ridiculous statements

We are after all a Bhagwan bharose country.

Though I do not agree with Mr Bhargava's POV but I do find a irony in the fact that the man at the helm who is trying to make Indian roads safe also gave his thumbs up to the unsafest vehicle on road, the battery operated rickshaws, which were removed from Delhi's roads on the orders of High Court, and will be back soon after certain changes in MV Act.

Yes ABS and Airbags should be mandatory but what about the masses? Perhaps Mr. Bhargava has a point which has got lost in the shrieking headlines of the instant news.
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Old 24th November 2014, 14:40   #254
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Default Re: Safety last? Maruti Chairman Mr. R.C. Bhargava's ridiculous statements

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Originally Posted by saket77 View Post
4. [Myth] The airbags can go off in minor collision/ animal hit etc. and reinstating airbags can cost a fortune[/Myth]
+1

This is a big misconception in people's mind and they say that while they are okay with making a one-time high payment for the airbag variant but what about the frequent nudges their car goes through which is going to trigger airbag deployment.

While I'd call the general population not so literate, when it comes to things like airbag deployment process, we don't see manufacturers promoting the safety features that much.

When addition of cheap decals make a limited edition in our country, I wouldn't expect the manufacturers to differentiate their cars based on safety features anytime soon.
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Old 24th November 2014, 15:09   #255
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Default Re: Safety last? Maruti Chairman Mr. R.C. Bhargava's ridiculous statements

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Originally Posted by alpha1 View Post
Well the honest fact of life in India is, complete families (of 3-5 people) DO ride two wheelers devoid of any safety features and/or apparel. Isn't it safer for that family to use public buses? Even though it may take 1 hour more to reach destination - isn't that too low a price for the safety of a bus?
The same families would almost certainly be safer in a bus than a car too --- but buses wasn't the argument.
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