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Old 25th November 2014, 16:14   #271
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Default Re: Safety last? Maruti Chairman Mr. R.C. Bhargava's ridiculous statements

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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
When did you last take apart your brakes? When did you last disasemble your engine, just to make sure that all the bits were there, ticked off against the service manual diagrams?
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Originally Posted by srameshdelhi View Post
Of course all the above are being done periodically when the car is given for service, and we can very well have a look at it if we want to.
I think Ramesh has a valid concern. We can have a look at other systems, and we can know that they are working (how about knowing that your brakes do not function from factory after driving 40k-50K kms), but it is impossible to judge the airbag systems unless you bang your car head on. A few recent incidents posted on the forum also give rise to such doubts. (I think that the Toyota Etios should have had its airbags deployed; but that is discussion for another thread).

First, India is lot less safety conscious than many other countries in this aspect. Only few folks would invest in a car with proper safety kit. On top of it, if the airbags fail to deploy in a worthy crash, it puts a big question mark. I do not want really this to happen, but many can even argue that why to invest in airbags when they may fail to deploy when actually needed!

On the other hand, as the state of technology is, airbags are one-time use/ practically maintenance free equipment. The SRS indicator on the dashboard can indicate any failure within the system, but surely that is not foolproof. Probably, we would be able to check the airbags systems in the future when engineers would bring re-usable airbags in cars.

Regards,
Saket
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Old 25th November 2014, 17:27   #272
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Default Re: Safety last? Maruti Chairman Mr. R.C. Bhargava's ridiculous statements

Nothing personal: I am arguing with your arguments only, except I have rather lost track or what they were. Is it that we should not have airbags because we cannot inspect them, or even believe that they are there?

Actually, I am really in two minds about airbags for safety. Without proper usage, ie seat belts with seats set at correct distance, etc, they themselves can be killers. With unbelted children, sat on front-seat-passenger laps, seat belts will kill.

Who knew: the steering-wheel airbag is supposed to point at one's chest, not one's face. I didn't know: I learnt it from my current-car manual. <Blush>

If you are saying that one can't just put airbags and ABS (etc) in a car and label it Safe then I completely agree. Airbags can be inherently dangerous; increasing the confidence of a bad driver increases danger

But can we agree on bodywork: well designed crumple zones and a strong cabin? To me this is the bottom line of driver/passenger protection, and there is really no excuse for their absence in a modern car, and the more dangerous the driving environment is, the less excuse there is.

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Old 25th November 2014, 19:26   #273
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Default Re: Safety last? Maruti Chairman Mr. R.C. Bhargava's ridiculous statements

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And now I think it is unfair to bash only Mr. RCB on this comment as many other manufacturers are echoing the same sentiments as stated by recent news.
....
....

There are some ridiculous arguments in there. Mahindra says that they are providing the safety kit with the top variants - So is safety same as luxury?

Honda says that Govt. should only mandate the norms, not the methods - So how do they plan to achieve the 'mandated norms'? By superhuman methods?

Other one says that driving speed is slower than Europe, so no need for safety features - SO what is the number of Indian fatalities is among highest in the world?

Hyundai has the heart to ask that is 'safety required in India'? Why? Are we, Indians immortal or are we not entitled to be safe as others in the world?
Offcourse, all of them are responsible for the quality of cars we have been getting at such a huge cost (which is still seems lesser to these manufacturers). They have their own association and govt bodies has no power to control their association, rather govt. makes policies which just fulfill desires of manufacturers. And all this now reflecting in the quotes you have made in your post.

Just let me put one example on the condition Indian automobile sector, look at this graph :

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Source : http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...-analysis.html (October 2014 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis)


Our market is mostly dominated by Japanese car manufacturers. Now a new perception is building that these dominating companies are rather dumping their sub standard products in India. Those, who tried to sell their good quality products couldn't actually survive and finally had to close the shops. For example Mitsubishi. Off late Koreans have also gained large share in Indian market.

There is very little share of European manufacturers. Now this is interesting because they are the only manufacturers who atleast talk about safety, be it just marketing point for them or their true nature, but only they are the ones who talk about safety.

I am not taking side of the Euro companies, neither trying to prove their cars are better than others. But the reality is the manufacturers/brands, who talk about safety, sturdiness etc could never gain mainstream position in Indian market. People talk that their cars are not reliable or their service is poor or expensive etc. so they are not gaining remarkable shares. But then there is counter question, is the situation really that worst? or there is some lobby who spreads such negative reputation of these brands who talk about safety/sturdiness and building such cars is expensive and less profit gaining affair for rest of the 'well doing' manufacturers?

I am again repeating - When we talk about safety then its not only about airbags or ABS, first need is a sturdy and well designed, well built body shell which has been crash tested. Manufacturers do their own internal crash testings so a well designed car will pass any kind of third party test its being thrown in. Airbags and ABS come later after the seatbelts.

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Old 27th November 2014, 09:19   #274
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Default Re: Safety last? Maruti Chairman Mr. R.C. Bhargava's ridiculous statements

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In what may be a somewhat terrifying development that tries to detract attention from the urgent need for safety features in all cars sold in this country, Maruti Suzuki Chairman Mr. R. C. Bhargava has come out with a statement that implies that the need for active and passive safety features in motor vehicles sold in India is probably redundant in the present scenario.

http://indianexpress.com/article/bus...-maruti-chief/

FATALISM: The belief that the driver is powerless to do anything other than what he actually does. He has no power to influence the future, or indeed, his own actions; therefore, his actions are free, and the result is inevitable, pre-determined and ordained by God.
Just my 2paise here...

Fatalism is a bad thing, on that we can fully agree.

In light of that, I'm thrilled to discover that there are things like certified safety driving instructors (etc) in the land, and in all honesty believe that's going to go a LOT further towards decreasing road fatalities than high-tech safety features in the cars, though of course solid basic body structures and things like side-impact beams, which are affordable and low-tech/low-maintenance, really should be there.

Here's a point, though, by example: There's a great safety feature available on every single Indian-market vehicle that costs the consumer probably less than Rs.500 and which very few people in most parts of the country avail of: it's called a "dimmer switch" (i.e., "dipper") and if set to low beams at night to oncoming traffic, it goes a very long way towards eliminating both in-car and out-of car road fatalities at night. And yet I have had all kinds of people, even academically quite highly educated people, tell me why high beams can be justifiably used all the time here (example: "in YOUR country all the roads are lit up at night [absolutely wrong]; that's why you can use your low beams over there - we can't do that").

Point being that uneducated / undisciplined / irresponsible drivers are always going to be the root cause of road fatalities. Not cars, regardless of their equipment. Let's be clear on that up front. And that is true of every nation on earth.

Now for the higher-tech equipment in question, and whether it should be mandated:

ABS systems: I worked personally with actually every single system that U.S. O.E.'s and a number of imports were using at that time - Bendix, Kelsey-Hayes, Bosch, Delco, etc) and had some experience testing (besides remanufacturing) those, and know where they're deficient - also know that insurance industry studies (who unlike the O.E.'s weren't trying to sell technology) in the U.S. found that there were actually MORE frontal collisions in ABS-equipped vehicles than in non-equipped. This was maybe 15-20 years ago now and it could be argued that technology has improved - but if my limited recent experience with a new ABS-equipped Indian vehicle is any indication, I have doubts.

Re: airbags, a friend (again, some years ago) had done a thesis on the shortcomings / ineffectiveness vs. cost penalty of airbags - at least in many situations / under many conditions: for example, injury / fatality rates are actually higher when not also wearing a seatbelt - or when inflating against a person of low stature (not status), or children; which is why they are supposed to be de-activated by the owners/dealers in such cases.

That is old data based on antiquated systems, you say? Do tell, in the entry-level Indian market, does anyone really believe that anything better than what those antiquated systems represented will be fitted? Or that low-income buyers will have a clue about the need to disable the airbag where their kids are seated (/standing) beside them, or that ABS is not magically going to make them stop immediately in any situation (which is what a lot of Americans thought in the early days), or that the pedal should not be "pumped" in ABS-equipped cars, or that for maximum benefit, one will have to STEER out of trouble, with ABS fully activated??? Etc?

Some of Bhargava's points are quite valid in my view. What of those who buy bikes instead of cars, because the price of safety equipment in the latter has driven prices up by a lakh? What of multinational suppliers pushing their products in their own interests? What of the fact of so many being killed on roads outside of cars? Etc? I see shrill reaction, but these issues need to be addressed thoughtfully and soberly.

In my years in the subcontinent, I've seen a great many attempts to make the "solutions" - whether real or imagined - of other, sometimes excessively-admired nations work here; more often than not, these have failed, and often at great expense. India is a great land, and (IMO, as one not born here) is more than up to the task of assessing its own needs and benefits on its own terms - not those that someone in Japan / the U.S./EU is going to dictate / define for her. I hope there will be sufficient self-confidence for that task, because context is everything - and India has a great opportunity to do things her own way, a way that's right FOR HER. Not to say that ideas and technology and experience shouldn't be shared far and wide. But many of the other formerly "great" nations have done poorly even at serving themselves, and are now in decline. Why take ideas that barely worked there (if at all) and try to transplant them here, where so many parameters are vastly different?

People who understand how to maximize the effectiveness of ABS/airbags will likely be willing to pay for it and it is good to offer it to them; those who do NOT are likely to derive very little if any benefit from it - perhaps even real disadvantages even in terms of safety - and we may even find, years down the road, that a lot of time/money/trouble has gone forth with no positive effect whatsoever on road "safety".

I say spend the money/effort/time where it is actually most likely to produce the desired effect, keeping the big picture in view.

Regards,
-Eric
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Old 27th November 2014, 10:37   #275
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Default Re: Safety last? Maruti Chairman Mr. R.C. Bhargava's ridiculous statements

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we may even find, years down the road, that a lot of time/money/trouble has gone forth with no positive effect whatsoever on road "safety".

I say spend the money/effort/time where it is actually most likely to produce the desired effect, keeping the big picture in view.
I might add (more on the level of political / administrative theory) that, along with under-regulation, there really is such a thing as over-regulation.

My home state in the U.S. seems to have decided some years ago, having accomplished everything else under the sun, that it would now be possible to create a little earthly utopia by proliferating rules and regulations. Besides this idea making things difficult and expensive for the average law-abiding citizen to get anything useful accomplished, it eventually caused the state's fiscal bankruptcy (yes, it really is possible even in the almighty and oh-so-rich USA, where currency notes are green, having grown on trees). And the saddest reality is that the place is no nearer to heaven now than it was then.

Ironically, that state, now for paucity of funds, had to shut down the longstanding vehicle safety inspection program altogether (it really wasn't doing much good by that time anyway)...

I have seen individuals, organizations, etc (even myself as a husband or parent) try to effect positive change by forcing it on people. It very seldom if ever achieves the intended result. It is far better to teach, to inspire, to THINK.

Media-based public awareness campaigns, as one possible channel, went a long way in the time of my childhood towards large-scale positive change (every American t-bhpian from my era will remember the image of a native American on horseback, having ridden through pristine wilderness, tearfully surveying a trash-laden interstate highway - and will realize how much cleaner the U.S. roadsides are these days, how rare it is to see someone throwing trash out a window).

But best of all would be to: "Love thy neighbor as thyself" and "do unto others as you would have them do to you". In truth (think about the vast implications) this would take care of around 95+ percent of road safety (and everything else) right there...

...leaving the rest to, well... that mysterious realm of "fate" - where the most conscientious of drivers with ideal road conditions, benefited by all the safety features from dimmer switches to side-impact beams to premium tyres and fresh wiper blades and well-designed crumple zones and multiple side airbags - still die... as one day we all must.

-Eric

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Old 27th November 2014, 10:48   #276
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Wow finally an apt and fitting argument that weighs both the pros and cons wisely. This coming from an industry insider and a person not born in India should make us assess our priorities when it comes to road safety.

I half expect this thread to go silent for a while and then another post popping up later by someone who is aghast and terrified about how their car is made out of a tin foil and that anything could happen at any moment.
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Old 27th November 2014, 11:05   #277
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Default Re: Safety last? Maruti Chairman Mr. R.C. Bhargava's ridiculous statements

And now this.
http://www.business-standard.com/art...2700013_1.html

India's leading business paper carries the headline ' Car safety to come at 12,000 Crs cost'. The article has various interesting quotes:

1. A senior executive at Maruti Suzuki said, "We do offer airbags and enhanced safety features such as anti-lock braking systems in top-end variants. Customers can opt for them according to affordability. If such features are made mandatory across all variants and all models, it will result in increasing the price of vehicles and affect sales, especially at the entry level."

2. Puneet Gupta, associate director at automotive consultancy firm HIS, said, "Vehicle safety is important but given that per capita income is low in India, implementation of safety norms will have an adverse impact on sales. It may affect purchase decisions of consumers looking at upgrading from two-wheelers."

3. Mayank Pareek, president (passenger vehicle business unit) at Tata Motors, told Business Standard, "In India, 50 per cent of the customers are upgrading from a 'two-wheeler' or 'no-wheeler'. For them, any four-wheeler is safer. That aspect should be kept in mind. If putting airbags makes cars too expensive, motorisation will not happen."

The only sensible comment though comes here:

4. Abdul Majeed, partner, PricewaterhouseCoopers, offered a different perspective. "With road infrastructure improving, the average speed on Indian roads has been going up. As much as 30-40 per cent of road accidents happening in the country can be avoided if cars are equipped with basic safety features. It is true the cost will go up but if customers are educated, sales should not be a problem. Nobody would want to risk their lives for Rs 35,000-40,000," he said.

I have that sinking feeling that most of the manufacturers would push for either a subsidy and/or delay in implementation.

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Old 27th November 2014, 11:14   #278
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Default Re: Safety last? Maruti Chairman Mr. R.C. Bhargava's ridiculous statements

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Point being that uneducated / undisciplined / irresponsible drivers are always going to be the root cause of road fatalities. Not cars, regardless of their equipment. Let's be clear on that up front. And that is true of every nation on earth.
Fully agree. As far as I know, nobody, here, is disputing that.


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Originally Posted by ringoism View Post

Now for the higher-tech equipment in question, and whether it should be mandated:


ABS systems: I worked personally with actually every single system that U.S. O.E.'s and a number of imports were using at that time - Bendix, Kelsey-Hayes, Bosch, Delco, etc) and had some experience testing (besides remanufacturing) those, and know where they're deficient - also know that insurance industry studies (who unlike the O.E.'s weren't trying to sell technology) in the U.S. found that there were actually MORE frontal collisions in ABS-equipped vehicles than in non-equipped. This was maybe 15-20 years ago now and it could be argued that technology has improved - but if my limited recent experience with a new ABS-equipped Indian vehicle is any indication, I have doubts.
This is interesting. I would like to see the source and the raw data for this. Could you please provide a link to this information? I would be inclined to disbelieve this inference about ABS, without raw data. If there are more cars with ABS (than without it) on the road, then there with be more frontal collision for ABS. But, as percentage, it could be far less than the non-ABS cars. Which is why, we will need the raw data.

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Originally Posted by ringoism View Post
Re: airbags, a friend (again, some years ago) had done a thesis on the shortcomings / ineffectiveness vs. cost penalty of airbags - at least in many situations / under many conditions: for example, injury / fatality rates are actually higher when not also wearing a seatbelt - or when inflating against a person of low stature (not status), or children; which is why they are supposed to be de-activated by the owners/dealers in such cases.
It is a known fact that if you do not wear seatbelts, then the airbags do more harm than good. But, this is a peripheral fact and has nothing to do with whether there should be airbags in the cars. (Just like if you put your finger into a electric socket, you might get hurt. That should not mean you should not have electric socket in your house)

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That is old data based on antiquated systems, you say? Do tell, in the entry-level Indian market, does anyone really believe that anything better than what those antiquated systems represented will be fitted? Or that low-income buyers will have a clue about the need to disable the airbag where their kids are seated (/standing) beside them, or that ABS is not magically going to make them stop immediately in any situation (which is what a lot of Americans thought in the early days), or that the pedal should not be "pumped" in ABS-equipped cars, or that for maximum benefit, one will have to STEER out of trouble, with ABS fully activated??? Etc?
(I am ignoring the fact that you are somehow equating low-income with low-intelligence in the above, as I think it was unintentional on your part.) Just like you make instructions about road safety mandatory for driving test, you can include instructions about airbags/ABS mandatory for driving test. I really do not get what you are trying to say about ABS in the above. ABS works just like ordinary brakes and you can stand on the brake pedal, if you like, in case of emergencies. The difference between ABS and ordinary brake is that ABS will prevent skidding if you stand on brake pedals. It will not do more harm compared to the ordinary brake.

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Originally Posted by ringoism View Post
Some of Bhargava's points are quite valid in my view. What of those who buy bikes instead of cars, because the price of safety equipment in the latter has driven prices up by a lakh? What of multinational suppliers pushing their products in their own interests? What of the fact of so many being killed on roads outside of cars? Etc? I see shrill reaction, but these issues need to be addressed thoughtfully and soberly.
Cost increase is a red herring. The cost increase is not even 2% of the total car price. But, let us say there is a cost increase, which may be prohibitive for some. So, please provide safety option pack with every variant. With this, I will not have to pay for unnecessary leather seats, stereo etc.

As far as Bhargava's statement goes about comparing bike safety and car safety, why was he against quadricycles then? Quadricycles would be safer then bike, anyway.

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Originally Posted by ringoism View Post
In my years in the subcontinent, I've seen a great many attempts to make the "solutions" - whether real or imagined - of other, sometimes excessively-admired nations work here; more often than not, these have failed, and often at great expense. India is a great land, and (IMO, as one not born here) is more than up to the task of assessing its own needs and benefits on its own terms - not those that someone in Japan / the U.S./EU is going to dictate / define for her. I hope there will be sufficient self-confidence for that task, because context is everything - and India has a great opportunity to do things her own way, a way that's right FOR HER. Not to say that ideas and technology and experience shouldn't be shared far and wide. But many of the other formerly "great" nations have done poorly even at serving themselves, and are now in decline. Why take ideas that barely worked there (if at all) and try to transplant them here, where so many parameters are vastly different?

People who understand how to maximize the effectiveness of ABS/airbags will likely be willing to pay for it and it is good to offer it to them; those who do NOT are likely to derive very little if any benefit from it - perhaps even real disadvantages even in terms of safety - and we may even find, years down the road, that a lot of time/money/trouble has gone forth with no positive effect whatsoever on road "safety".

I say spend the money/effort/time where it is actually most likely to produce the desired effect, keeping the big picture in view.

Regards,
-Eric
(Setting aside generic stereotypical comments about subcontinent and its people, as again I think it was unintentional on your part) We are trying hard to see the big picture here. And the picture seems to be grim. Millions and millions of unsafe cars plying on the road that cannot withstand head-on collision against a static object at 54km/hr. This means against another car coming from opposite direction, they are unsafe/unstable even at a speed of 27km/hr (This is with seat belts). All we want is to have cars that are better than this.
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Old 27th November 2014, 13:29   #279
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For someone insisting on raw data, you should make an effort to go through the existing data on what a frontal impact test actually simulates. It definitely does not represent two cars colliding at half the speed but in fact two cars hitting each other at the same speed.

I am really tired of this, why do we jump to conclusions about everything. People here are blatantly calling our cars as made of tinfoil, card board boxes etc when they don't even realise how a deformable surface absorbs impact energy and reduces peak deceleration value the occupants are subjected to, hence preventing fatal injuries in a crash(for people wanting to see raw data - please refer to the links of standards I posted earlier in the thread).

It is high time we put an end to these sweeping remarks about how 'cheap' our cars are compared to some 'phoren' brand when in fact they don't have the 'spheres' to design cars ground up for us and are pushing their so 'superior' sales duds with all this fear mongering. The cheapness and flimsiness everyone is turning their noses up at is called as 'optimization' in the automotive industry and Indian engineers are beating the automotive superpowers at a game that they have mastered over a 100 years.
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Old 27th November 2014, 14:07   #280
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Default Re: Safety last? Maruti Chairman Mr. R.C. Bhargava's ridiculous statements

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Originally Posted by ringoism View Post
In my years in the subcontinent, I've seen a great many attempts to make the "solutions" - whether real or imagined - of other, sometimes excessively-admired nations work here; more often than not, these have failed, and often at great expense. India is a great land, and (IMO, as one not born here) is more than up to the task of assessing its own needs and benefits on its own terms - not those that someone in Japan / the U.S./EU is going to dictate / define for her. I hope there will be sufficient self-confidence for that task, because context is everything - and India has a great opportunity to do things her own way, a way that's right FOR HER. Not to say that ideas and technology and experience shouldn't be shared far and wide. But many of the other formerly "great" nations have done poorly even at serving themselves, and are now in decline. Why take ideas that barely worked there (if at all) and try to transplant them here, where so many parameters are vastly different?
I don't think that any sort of nationalism works here. It is wrong to talk about other countries dictating to India, because they aren't. This is just the sort of thing that gets people worked up (and rightly so in some instances: ask me what I think about FDI in some sectors. But not on Team-BHP ) instead of looking at the real issues. Human bodies, given certain varieties of shade and shape, are the same the world over, and get broken in the same way the world over.

More or less as I said in an earlier post: no, India shouldn't be dictated to --- but learning by the mistakes of others is something that comes free. That is a kind of FDI that I completely in favour of!

As to what has "barely worked," I don't think that having accident/fatality rates that are way below those of India can be described as barely working.

[Yet] Again: Yes, driver education and law is the single most important change that could and should be made. It is also the one that will take the longest. No excuse not to start right away.

Safer vehicles is next on the list (No excuse not to start right away) and lets begin with vehicle bodies, crumple zones, cabin strength, reducing danger to pedestrians (Ban Bull Bars Immediately!) and so on. Increased cost and reduced profit is not excuse to put this off.

We can take a little longer to argue points about other specifics such as ABS and airbags. Especially airbags, which will kill if not properly used. Putting it bluntly, they will kill many Indians and Indian children who are using their cars in the way that they normally do simply due to the lack of aforementioned education, testing and enforcement.
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Old 27th November 2014, 16:53   #281
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Default Re: Safety last? Maruti Chairman Mr. R.C. Bhargava's ridiculous statements

One thing we as a consumer need to understand here is Mr Bhargava's business interest. Today not only MIL but most other car manufacturers are making money by selling top end models with all safety feature. I believe many-many buyer will downgrade their purchase to lower variant if safety features are available in base and mid-variant. Margins are really high in top models and companies want to push that sales.

One very humble Qs we can ask to Mr. Bhargava is, if Alto-800 today at 2.4Lakh, why today we don't have option of same alto with airbags at 2.7L?

Now with this argument, if we re-look at his statement, anyone can understand his rant about govt decision. In my opinion even if one life saved by safety features, its worth making it mandatory. I hope Govt. will keep his stand firm on this.

Regards
SE
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Old 28th November 2014, 08:56   #282
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Default Re: Safety last? Maruti Chairman Mr. R.C. Bhargava's ridiculous statements

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Fully agree. As far as I know, nobody, here, is disputing that.



(Just like if you put your finger into a electric socket, you might get hurt. That should not mean you should not have electric socket in your house)



The difference between ABS and ordinary brake is that ABS will prevent skidding if you stand on brake pedals. It will not do more harm compared to the ordinary brake.


.
ashlil, Thank you! You have captured exactly same line of thought as mine. I agree drivers irresponsible behavior is major cause of accident but then that doesn't mean one can ignore benefits of airbag
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Old 28th November 2014, 15:52   #283
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Default Re: Safety last? Maruti Chairman Mr. R.C. Bhargava's ridiculous statements

I don't agree with the maruti boss, but considering the kind of crap airbags Toyota put in their cars which ended up killing the passengers in the event of a crash maybe a moratorium on manufacturers obsessed with cost cutting ( the Japanese's ones mainly) adding any more safety kit that might work to cause what it tries to prevent.

The whole 'illiterate villagers don't buy a car with safety gear' is pretty much a consistent theme on this forum. In my experience, education, postcode and money don't play a role in passing up on safety, the last person who dismissed ABS as just a gimmick was someone in an urban area buying a safari cash down. He parroted the sales line that ABS reduces braking distance by just 2 feet

Don't ask me where he got the numbers.
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Old 29th November 2014, 11:49   #284
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Default Re: Safety last? Maruti Chairman Mr. R.C. Bhargava's ridiculous statements

Latest ACI has an article on NCAP and the test results of Indian car's. On one page they have 3 pictures of the Nano, Alto & Go. You can see clearly that the GO's structural integrity is the worst of the lot, even worse then the Nano's. While the Nano & Alto's A pillars are comparitively largely intact the Go has just crushed up completely.

The Datsun brand name was launched to sell cheap car's, what Nissan seems to be doing is selling cheaply made car's. It's shocking what a international manufacturer of repute & a Japanese one at that has resorted to in the name of launching affordable cars. To add to that Datsun is not agreeing to the problems in their car's. They are flooding social media with messages of how the braking distance in the Go is the best in the segment. The ideal thing to do would be to accept shortcomings and improve them. More then ABS & Airbags, it's poor structural rigidity that's worrying.

Last edited by amit : 29th November 2014 at 12:07.
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Old 29th November 2014, 17:39   #285
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Default Re: Safety last? Maruti Chairman Mr. R.C. Bhargava's ridiculous statements

Few questions to ask before this round-about debate takes another 360 :

1) Are there safer variants in most of the entry level cars today? - Yes

2) Do people have a choice to buy the models that are 'safer' with SRS/ABS? -Yes

3) Should cars be differentiated based on country of origin or local policies? - Local policies because certain 'Asians' are on par with or better than some rivals in Europe & as well score top points in safety tests in U.S. In contrast many Euro brands are flogged for their quirks in U.S & Europe.

4) Are great dynamics and haptics equivalent to perceivable safety? - No connection whatsoever.

5) Is reliability an ignored sub-aspect of safety? - Indeed it is and it is ignored all the time. A car with sorted electronics/mechanicals which do not malfunction or conk off in the middle of driving, avoids an incident altogether.

6) If, inspite of so much information bordering on trite, being available to the general public about the +ives of safety features, they still go ahead and try and save 30k for a model that does not have them, is it still the brands fault? - No

7) If affordability to the extent of every rupee saved is indeed a concern as per the Maruti Chairman's word, does the buyer have a slight advantage buying a basic car over buying a 2 wheeler? - Yes, specially when it comes to family transport (carrying 3, 4 on a bike is the familiar Indian jugaad concept which never should've been done).

8) Ok smarty pants, ABS & SRS can only do so much, what about sheet-metal thickness, anti-roll bars, load absorbing frames & steel beams? Can the 'Asians' do that to make entry vehicles safer? - I'll answer that when the "Europeans" bring out a sub 3 lakh car built to such specifications.

Its simple, like everything else today its the buyer who decides what car he wants based on available resources. Its only he who knows best why he bought a particular model. Maybe 2 years back I'd agree that the urban customer had no idea of safety tech, but its all over the place today. Rural customers might still not have grasped the concept yet, but most are ruled by economics. Its quite natural for a company to push a model with safety features than without because of higher margins, but when the consumer has a ceiling on the price it may not be so easy. The safety-frame of a vehicle, well as I said before its all down to local company policies.

That policy is influenced by the mentality of buyers in the country. Ultimately, sales matter. Things just are the way they are as of now, & only 'demand' for safer models can give birth to policy changes.

Disclaimer : No direct references have been made to any brand in particular. They have been only referred to by their region of origin. Similarities if any found though, aren't as co-incidental as they are, factual.
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